Trophy Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant
Discussion
I suppose the usual questions are 1. was he doing something illegal? 2. Was his 'hunt' part of managed conservation program/population control and 3. how many bucks did the hunters pour into the wildlife park coffers?
Don't get me wrong, it's not my bag, but the usual knee-jerk about these sorts of things are a bit one dimensional, anthropomorphic and unrealistic.
I certainly wouldn't crow about his death. But then I wouldn't crow about the death of an elephant either, which he would have done I suppose.
Don't get me wrong, it's not my bag, but the usual knee-jerk about these sorts of things are a bit one dimensional, anthropomorphic and unrealistic.
I certainly wouldn't crow about his death. But then I wouldn't crow about the death of an elephant either, which he would have done I suppose.
el stovey said:
I agree.
I wonder though on the sliding scale of 'which animals are OK to kill' does it become OK to kill animals? Most people like whales and elephants or dolphins but are perhaps less concerned if someone kills a fly or a rabbit.
Is it just whether you see the animal as food or a pest it's OK to kill it? e.i. any killing for sport is wrong?
I suppose I think it's OK to kill animals as part of pest control or to eat, unless they are endangered or something I think is a nice animal, like a dog etc.
I wonder this myself. When he walked up to the elephant and just shot it in the head it reflexively seemed like a senseless crime as I'm sure it did to most of us. Yet what we do to, say, breeding pigs every day to provide ham and bacon must be far worse than anything that quasi-wild elephant experienced before its quick death.I wonder though on the sliding scale of 'which animals are OK to kill' does it become OK to kill animals? Most people like whales and elephants or dolphins but are perhaps less concerned if someone kills a fly or a rabbit.
Is it just whether you see the animal as food or a pest it's OK to kill it? e.i. any killing for sport is wrong?
I suppose I think it's OK to kill animals as part of pest control or to eat, unless they are endangered or something I think is a nice animal, like a dog etc.
I'm not squeamish (was a fishmonger in a former life) and am not above a little hypocrisy myself or I'd be a vegan, but I do think it's a bit rich when, say, everyone jumped on Melissa Bachman's cheesy grin next to a lion corpse on facebook ("she should be hunted, see how she likes it", etc) whilst slurping down mcdonalds burgers and the cheapest milk they can buy.
Personally I'd have school kids taken to intensive farms and abbottoirs so they can at least see how animals live and die to support our lifestyle.
ker got served.This happened several months ago I beleive. A friend of mine is from Zim , she's a maths teacher here, Recall talking to her about it. Apparently the fees and income that comes from the paying hunters goes a big way into paying for armed park rangers,who protect against poachers. The basis of the game parks were set up back when Zim was still Rhodesia. The preservation movement starting in the 60's apparently.
So basically, you have controlled culling or uncontrolled poaching. From what I'm told its working quite well, and the Zim government sees the parks as big revenue earners in the years to come, both from hunters and tourists.
I beleive some of the parks in SA adopt a similar policy.
So basically, you have controlled culling or uncontrolled poaching. From what I'm told its working quite well, and the Zim government sees the parks as big revenue earners in the years to come, both from hunters and tourists.
I beleive some of the parks in SA adopt a similar policy.
As mentioned above, there actually more benefits to hunting than meet the eye. 'Louis Theroux Africa Hunting Holiday' shows that without the hunting trade, many of these special species numbers would not be as strictly monitored and controlled as they currently are, as well as the parks security from poachers would not be as strong as they currently are.
The hunters pay high prices for the animals ($100,000 for a Rhino for example), with 83% of funds to the timbavati game reserve in Kruger Park come from hunting, where as ecotourism only contributes 3%. Simply enough, without the hunting trade a lot of these parks protection and local economies would crumble. With animal/species management unfortunately seeing the negative impact.
In regards to the animals welfare too, all trophy hunters are partnered with a professional hunter at all times, whom also will not allow the person to kill the animal unless it can be done with one clean shot and without the animal suffering (as seen in the video).
My personal view on the subject is that it's horrible situation that the only way for these animals to be protected is by allowing hunters and their money to fund it, and I don't condone it in any way, shape or form. It should be governments paying for the protection and conservation of these animals, However, that's in an ideal world, and unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world, so for now, if a few of these animals have to be lost in order to maintain the conservation of all the others, then so be it.
As for the hunter that lost his life, I also have little sympathy as he'd have known that even with a gun by your side, hunting is dangerous, and unfortunately for him, his gamble didn't pay off.
The hunters pay high prices for the animals ($100,000 for a Rhino for example), with 83% of funds to the timbavati game reserve in Kruger Park come from hunting, where as ecotourism only contributes 3%. Simply enough, without the hunting trade a lot of these parks protection and local economies would crumble. With animal/species management unfortunately seeing the negative impact.
In regards to the animals welfare too, all trophy hunters are partnered with a professional hunter at all times, whom also will not allow the person to kill the animal unless it can be done with one clean shot and without the animal suffering (as seen in the video).
My personal view on the subject is that it's horrible situation that the only way for these animals to be protected is by allowing hunters and their money to fund it, and I don't condone it in any way, shape or form. It should be governments paying for the protection and conservation of these animals, However, that's in an ideal world, and unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world, so for now, if a few of these animals have to be lost in order to maintain the conservation of all the others, then so be it.
As for the hunter that lost his life, I also have little sympathy as he'd have known that even with a gun by your side, hunting is dangerous, and unfortunately for him, his gamble didn't pay off.
andy_s said:
I suppose the usual questions are 1. was he doing something illegal? 2. Was his 'hunt' part of managed conservation program/population control and 3. how many bucks did the hunters pour into the wildlife park coffers?
Don't get me wrong, it's not my bag, but the usual knee-jerk about these sorts of things are a bit one dimensional, anthropomorphic and unrealistic.
I certainly wouldn't crow about his death. But then I wouldn't crow about the death of an elephant either, which he would have done I suppose.
Legal, in Africa most things are legal if you have enough money, morally right? Less than 500,000 elephants, 5,000 black rhino, 25,000 white rhino and 15-20,000 lions left do people think its ok to kill these animals for fun in the 21st Century? Don't get me wrong, it's not my bag, but the usual knee-jerk about these sorts of things are a bit one dimensional, anthropomorphic and unrealistic.
I certainly wouldn't crow about his death. But then I wouldn't crow about the death of an elephant either, which he would have done I suppose.
Do people really think the money goes into any kind of conservation? It goes to the Outfitters pocket and a Swiss bank account.
But then again people with money have no morals and think they can do what they want when they want.
11 September 2011 FSA adviser and top banker Sir David Scholey
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/P...
GoDaddy CEO Bob Parsons
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/31/bob-parso...
Donald Trumps boys, Donald Jr and Eric
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114122/Do...
If you live by the gun (literally) then you can expect to die by the gun
Carlique said:
As mentioned above, there actually more benefits to hunting than meet the eye. 'Louis Theroux Africa Hunting Holiday' shows that without the hunting trade, many of these special species numbers would not be as strictly monitored and controlled as they currently are, as well as the parks security from poachers would not be as strong as they currently are.
The hunters pay high prices for the animals ($100,000 for a Rhino for example), with 83% of funds to the timbavati game reserve in Kruger Park come from hunting, where as ecotourism only contributes 3%. Simply enough, without the hunting trade a lot of these parks protection and local economies would crumble. With animal/species management unfortunately seeing the negative impact.
In regards to the animals welfare too, all trophy hunters are partnered with a professional hunter at all times, whom also will not allow the person to kill the animal unless it can be done with one clean shot and without the animal suffering (as seen in the video).
As for the hunter that lost his life, I also have little sympathy as he'd have known that even with a gun by your side, hunting is dangerous, and unfortunately for him, his gamble didn't pay off.
Of course all the Ph are well known for their high morals standards and ethics.The hunters pay high prices for the animals ($100,000 for a Rhino for example), with 83% of funds to the timbavati game reserve in Kruger Park come from hunting, where as ecotourism only contributes 3%. Simply enough, without the hunting trade a lot of these parks protection and local economies would crumble. With animal/species management unfortunately seeing the negative impact.
In regards to the animals welfare too, all trophy hunters are partnered with a professional hunter at all times, whom also will not allow the person to kill the animal unless it can be done with one clean shot and without the animal suffering (as seen in the video).
As for the hunter that lost his life, I also have little sympathy as he'd have known that even with a gun by your side, hunting is dangerous, and unfortunately for him, his gamble didn't pay off.
Quote ''But last week, the lion crossed just outside the park’s border, and a bow hunter shot the 13-year-old big cat. The hunters reportedly tracked down the wounded lion two days later, killing him with a rifle.''
http://www.takepart.com/article/2015/07/22/zimbabw...
Theo Bronkhorst is currently sitting in a jail in Zimbabwe, the only reason he was caught was the lion was collared and he tried to destroy the collar.
Additionally the current rhino poaching crisis in South Africa has been driven by fake rhino hunts, facilitated by get rich trophy hunting and bogus hunts.
http://annamiticus.com/2013/08/06/south-africas-tr...
If hunting stops poaching then why were over 1,200 rhino poached in S,A last year?
In theory the poaching isn't a terrible idea as the money goes towards the conservation but when I see a picture of a majestic creature killed I feel repulsed.
I wish I hadn't looked through the photos of the Trump boys posing with all their kills, I didn't think I'd be bothered but I feel a little sickened.
Even if it is the best of a bad situation. It just seems so obviously wrong.
I wish I hadn't looked through the photos of the Trump boys posing with all their kills, I didn't think I'd be bothered but I feel a little sickened.
Even if it is the best of a bad situation. It just seems so obviously wrong.
I almost forgot in the list of rich animal killers with and no morals King Juan Carlos of Spain and ex President of the Spanish WWF
21 Jul 2012
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/s...
21 Jul 2012
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/s...
loose cannon said:
So shooting elephants to save elephants 
I might of guessed a bunch of American huntsman would be involved
Not sure about this case, but in the old days didn't crofters shoot the weaker animals in herds? It doesn't seem impossible to me that, especially with smaller animal samples, you might want to kill a few males to stop inbreeding, etc.I might of guessed a bunch of American huntsman would be involved
Of course whether that's what happens or wether it's a convenient cover I don't know.
The elephant knelt on him. That's cold.
It knew exactly what it was doing in that case. If it just was pissed off it would have just run at him and taken aim with a tuck for a bit of a gore or to throw him. Kneeling on him was probably the most painful way an elephant could kill someone, and it would have to have meant to do it.
It knew exactly what it was doing in that case. If it just was pissed off it would have just run at him and taken aim with a tuck for a bit of a gore or to throw him. Kneeling on him was probably the most painful way an elephant could kill someone, and it would have to have meant to do it.
davepoth said:
The elephant knelt on him. That's cold.
It knew exactly what it was doing in that case. If it just was pissed off it would have just run at him and taken aim with a tuck for a bit of a gore or to throw him. Kneeling on him was probably the most painful way an elephant could kill someone, and it would have to have meant to do it.
Its interesting that it was a young bull elephant that was picked out. Its mentioned about Ivory, but its likely that it was a balance cull. An imbalance of Bull against cow elephants, heard management in fact. Sounds that way. It knew exactly what it was doing in that case. If it just was pissed off it would have just run at him and taken aim with a tuck for a bit of a gore or to throw him. Kneeling on him was probably the most painful way an elephant could kill someone, and it would have to have meant to do it.
Cheese Mechanic said:
davepoth said:
The elephant knelt on him. That's cold.
It knew exactly what it was doing in that case. If it just was pissed off it would have just run at him and taken aim with a tuck for a bit of a gore or to throw him. Kneeling on him was probably the most painful way an elephant could kill someone, and it would have to have meant to do it.
Its interesting that it was a young bull elephant that was picked out. Its mentioned about Ivory, but its likely that it was a balance cull. An imbalance of Bull against cow elephants, heard management in fact. Sounds that way. It knew exactly what it was doing in that case. If it just was pissed off it would have just run at him and taken aim with a tuck for a bit of a gore or to throw him. Kneeling on him was probably the most painful way an elephant could kill someone, and it would have to have meant to do it.
loose cannon said:
So shooting elephants to save elephants
I might of guessed a bunch of American huntsman would be involved
Where the parks are well run, in particular in South Africa the population of elephants can increase to the point where the available land cannot support it. Culling has been common place as a way of controlling the overall population for decades and by selling the right to shoot an elephant the parks can make a valuable contribution to their income, often in countries where the state cannot afford to.I might of guessed a bunch of American huntsman would be involved
Things are now changing though and some parks including those in Zimbabwe are no longer culling but using dart guns to administer contraception to elephants to inhibit the birth rate to keep populations to a sustainable level.
http://www.elephantsforever.co.za/elephant-contrac...
Im not a big game hunter, nor am i an American, i just thought there ought to be a balance in this thread. Where numbers are threatened due to poaching or other factors any hunting is indefensible but on the other hand if a cash strapped park can generate badly needed funds by selling a licence to hunt then it may not always be a bad thing, horrible though the actual killing of such an animal is.
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