Trophy Hunter Trampled To Death By Elephant

[PugwasHDJ80]

Lordbenny said:

I posted this article based purely on the fact that I was appalled that any human being could get a kick out of putting a bullet between the eyes of such a majestic creature. You're right in that I do eat pigs, cows and chickens and yes, you could say that I am hypocritical but these are wild animals and whether they need to be culled or not and whether the money does fund the game reserves or not doesn't take away from the fact that if it is a abhorrent thing to do in my opinion.

So its OK to raise millions of animals in hideous conditions without seeing much of the sun or sky, and then salughter them "en-masse" often in less than ideal circumstances because you fancy earting them, but its not ok to shoot a wild animal that has had a good life and has every change of not being shot?

[Mr_B]

Who cares about this guy ? He had no interest in legitimate culling or managed game killing, he quite openly plays the big white hunter role and likes to display himself with an animal carcass as a trophy, while pretending he has some skills to take a shot anyone could, in killing for fun.

It's a bit like fox hunting, if you derive a pleasure from that, then admit it. It's both a pretense to say either just doing a managed cull or hunting an animal for farming/pest reasons.
I'm happy for both to happen if people can prove it's for the best. I'd be concerned if anyone legitimately involved in pest control of wildlife park management was killed doing their job, but this guy, tough luck fella, because even when you stack the odds to your favour with a high powered riffle , sometimes it goes wrong. There's always the unexpected.

[Lordbenny]

PugwasHDJ80 said:

Lordbenny said:

I posted this article based purely on the fact that I was appalled that any human being could get a kick out of putting a bullet between the eyes of such a majestic creature. You're right in that I do eat pigs, cows and chickens and yes, you could say that I am hypocritical but these are wild animals and whether they need to be culled or not and whether the money does fund the game reserves or not doesn't take away from the fact that if it is a abhorrent thing to do in my opinion.

So its OK to raise millions of animals in hideous conditions without seeing much of the sun or sky, and then salughter them "en-masse" often in less than ideal circumstances because you fancy earting them, but its not ok to shoot a wild animal that has had a good life and has every change of not being shot?

As I said, it's about getting a 'kick' out of killing them. That's the only point I'm making.

[PugwasHDJ80]

p.s. I'm not trying to attack you, as you have a view that is shared by lots of rational peopl- but i'm hoping to get you to re-assess your thought process on this and work out that your reaction is senseless.

Either you support killing animals for enjoyment (be that for food or hunting) or you don't.

personally i do- i feel that we are as animalistic as any other animal and denying our enjoyment, whilst slaughtering millions of animals is immoral.

[audikentman]

ATG said:

It is a carefully managed cull. You clearly have no idea how this stuff is organised even in stats that area as chaotic as Zimbabwe.

Yeap, Zimbabwe that beacon of morals, ethics and CONservation

Not happy with shooting their wildlife they sell elephants and lions to Chinese Zoos.

http://conservationaction.co.za/recent-news/secret...

Cecil the Lion

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaan...

Both the Ph and the American Trophy Hunter have previous busts on illegal hunting
http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/18015589.html

ATG said:

The emotive crap on this thread about the ickle animals while reveling in the death of some bloke demonstrates some ... uhm ... emotional immaturity.?

Or people waking up to the fact at this rate when they ask their kids what E will means, they will say Extinct and not Elephant

ATG said:

Culling animals is normal. For heavens sake, the deer get shot in Richmond bloody park in London. "Ooh look at the majestic stag. Hope it gores the nasty park warden who's trying to shoot it."

The reason the Deer are culled is Richmond Park was a hunting ground and all the deer's natural predators were killed off to stop them killing the deer.

ATG said:

How anyone can have qualms about shooting an elephant while also perhaps contemplating having a bacon sandwich for breakfast escapes me. African mammals have more value than a pig perhaps? What have I missed??

I am a vegetarian so your point with me is? But I'm sure people will agree that there are more cows, pigs and sheep in the world than elephants?

ATG said:

Given that a game reserve will be managing its animal population by culling them anyway, why on earth shouldn't they raise funds for the park and local economy by allowing hunters to buy the right to perform the cull?

Plenty of reserves manage their large animal populations without culling, KNP in SA hasn't culled for about 20 years and has over 1 million visitors a year. Botswana and Kenya have no Trophy Hunting and manage their animal populations ok.

Read this quote from Lawrence Anthony - The Elephant Whisperer ''I have never had a problem with hunting for the pot. Every living thing on this planet hunts for sustence on way or the other, from the mighty microbe upwards. Survival of the fittest is like it or not, the way of the world. But hunting for pleasure, killing only for the thrill of it, is to me an anathema. I have met plenty of trophy hunters. They are, of course, all naturalists; they all know and love the bush; and they all justify their actions in conservation speak, peppered with all the right buzz words. The truth is, though, that they harbour a hidden impulse to kill, which can only be satisfied with the violent death of another life form by their hand And they will go to inordinate lengths to satisfy, and above all justify, this apparently irresistible urge. Besides, adding to the absurdity of their claims, there is not an animal alive that is even vaguely a match for todays weaponary. The modern high-powered hunting rifle with telescopic sights puts paid to any argument about sportsmanship.''

Edited by audikentman on Tuesday 28th July 17:26

[MrBrightSi]

audikentman said:

Plenty of reserves manage their large animal populations without culling, KNP in SA hasn't culled for about 20 years and has over 1 million visitors a year. Botswana and Kenya have no Trophy Hunting and manage their animal populations ok.

Read this quote from Lawrence Anthony - The Elephant Whisperer ''I have never had a problem with hunting for the pot. Every living thing on this planet hunts for sustence on way or the other, from the mighty microbe upwards. Survival of the fittest is like it or not, the way of the world. But hunting for pleasure, killing only for the thrill of it, is to me an anathema. I have met plenty of trophy hunters. They are, of course, all naturalists; they all know and love the bush; and they all justify their actions in conservation speak, peppered with all the right buzz words. The truth is, though, that they harbour a hidden impulse to kill, which can only be satisfied with the violent death of another life form by their hand And they will go to inordinate lengths to satisfy, and above all justify, this apparently irresistible urge. Besides, adding to the absurdity of their claims, there is not an animal alive that is even vaguely a match for todays weaponary. The modern high-powered hunting rifle with telescopic sights puts paid to any argument about sportsmanship.''

Edited by audikentman on Tuesday 28th July 17:26

Great post.

I suggest we cull trophy hunters.

In the great words of Van-Damme "Take your big stick and your boyfriend and find another bus to catch"

Ok, fine just watch hard target, no using ex servicemen. I want guys with high-powered rifles hunting another guy with a high powered rifle. Let the wildlife watch.

[Randy Winkman]

MrBrightSi said:

audikentman said:

Plenty of reserves manage their large animal populations without culling, KNP in SA hasn't culled for about 20 years and has over 1 million visitors a year. Botswana and Kenya have no Trophy Hunting and manage their animal populations ok.

Read this quote from Lawrence Anthony - The Elephant Whisperer ''I have never had a problem with hunting for the pot. Every living thing on this planet hunts for sustence on way or the other, from the mighty microbe upwards. Survival of the fittest is like it or not, the way of the world. But hunting for pleasure, killing only for the thrill of it, is to me an anathema. I have met plenty of trophy hunters. They are, of course, all naturalists; they all know and love the bush; and they all justify their actions in conservation speak, peppered with all the right buzz words. The truth is, though, that they harbour a hidden impulse to kill, which can only be satisfied with the violent death of another life form by their hand And they will go to inordinate lengths to satisfy, and above all justify, this apparently irresistible urge. Besides, adding to the absurdity of their claims, there is not an animal alive that is even vaguely a match for todays weaponary. The modern high-powered hunting rifle with telescopic sights puts paid to any argument about sportsmanship.''

Edited by audikentman on Tuesday 28th July 17:26

Great post.

I agree. If those people would like their money to help fund conservation, why don't they spend the same money on a volunteering holiday where they go and get involved for a week.

If anyone wants to see an elephant attack a person (2 actually) you can watch in a few places in this documentary (at 37 mins, in one case). And if you want to see some (untrained, I assume) folk with unsuitable guns shoot the same elephant it's at 40 mins. Both things are horrible but actually quite interesting, rather than just being gross. I hate gross things myself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b062xfv0

[andy_s]

audikentman said:

Read this quote from Lawrence Anthony - The Elephant Whisperer ''I have never had a problem with hunting for the pot. Every living thing on this planet hunts for sustence on way or the other, from the mighty microbe upwards. Survival of the fittest is like it or not, the way of the world. But hunting for pleasure, killing only for the thrill of it, is to me an anathema. I have met plenty of trophy hunters. They are, of course, all naturalists; they all know and love the bush; and they all justify their actions in conservation speak, peppered with all the right buzz words. The truth is, though, that they harbour a hidden impulse to kill, which can only be satisfied with the violent death of another life form by their hand And they will go to inordinate lengths to satisfy, and above all justify, this apparently irresistible urge. Besides, adding to the absurdity of their claims, there is not an animal alive that is even vaguely a match for todays weaponary. The modern high-powered hunting rifle with telescopic sights puts paid to any argument about sportsmanship.''

No one has said anything positive about the motivational or sporting aspect, you must be on auto-rant.

[andy_s]

Randy Winkman said:

I agree. If those people would like their money to help fund conservation, why don't they spend the same money on a volunteering holiday where they go and get involved for a week.

That's the point - they (the hunters) may or may not be interested in their money being used for whatever, it's irrelevant what their motivations are.

Either you pay someone to take the shot or someone pays you to take the shot, whether you like them or their motivations it makes no difference to the final result except in terms of the economy of the reserve.

I think they are self delusional idiots (there's little skill involved), but if you want to change this then don't attack them, they don't give a fk what you think; attack the govt that won't fund reserves and poachers that do this far more often, far worse and illegally to boot. An old colleague of mine set up an anti-poaching unit (in MOZ iirc) & a couple of friends have done bird for shooting a few poachers and rolling them into a shallow grave, people who did something positive rather than shout through the keyboard - one of the reasons I don't have much truck for the emotional blackmail 'hate' mail type nonsense these incidents generate.

[Jasandjules]

andy_s said:

but if you want to change this then don't attack them, they don't give a fk what you think; attack the govt that won't fund reserves and poachers that do this far more often, far worse and illegally to boot.

Oh I don't know, one vet lost her job and had to move states IIRC... A good start. Just need to get the rest of them.

[ofcorsa]

The hunting of animals for sport is small fry compared to the amount of animals we've made extinct through removal of habitat.

Ultimately these animals will only survive if the finances stack up, not because people wish ill thoughts upon hunters on social media.

[ATG]

audikentman said:

Or people waking up to the fact at this rate when they ask their kids what E will means, they will say Extinct and not Elephant

....

The reason the Deer are culled is Richmond Park was a hunting ground and all
I am a vegetarian so your point with me is? But I'm sure people will agree that there are more cows, pigs and sheep in the world than elephants?

The number of pigs and sheep relative to elephants globally is not relevant. The population size has to be managed at an appropriate level for the resources locally available in the reserve. If the elephant population gets too large they either starve or become a nuisance to the local community by destroying their crops. The former isn't humane and the latter isn't sustainable.

[Guffy]

I was reading about Cecil the lion that was apparently lured out of the park with bait, then shot with an arrow by an American dentist, thereafter the lion had to be tracked-down to finish the job off.

This same dentist has trophy pictures of himself with a Leopard and a Rhino.

I have nothing against culling, let's start with trophy hunters.

[jmorgan]

What are the economics behind culling then?

Genuine question. One web site advertising for hunting has a bit of spell painting the elephant as a nuisance. What would be the difference between a government appointed person carefully culling where needed vs using tourists and making money. Where does that money go?

[Randy Winkman]

jmorgan said:

What are the economics behind culling then?

Genuine question. One web site advertising for hunting has a bit of spell painting the elephant as a nuisance. What would be the difference between a government appointed person carefully culling where needed vs using tourists and making money. Where does that money go?

A reasonable question. But for some of us the question is about the mind of the person pulling the trigger for fun i.e. What the f**k is wrong with them?

[jmorgan]

Randy Winkman said:

A reasonable question. But for some of us the question is about the mind of the person pulling the trigger for fun i.e. What the f**k is wrong with them?

I know there are people that will do the deed because they are wired that way. I am under no illusions that people that like hunting will use this to their ends. Just that hearing arguments for management this way got me thinking as the reality vs perceived on the economics.

[steviegunn]

jmorgan said:

Randy Winkman said:

A reasonable question. But for some of us the question is about the mind of the person pulling the trigger for fun i.e. What the f**k is wrong with them?

I know there are people that will do the deed because they are wired that way. I am under no illusions that people that like hunting will use this to their ends. Just that hearing arguments for management this way got me thinking as the reality vs perceived on the economics.

Quite, to me this is just the natural progression of the nasty little psycopath who likes to pull the legs of spiders or burn ants with a magnifying glass.

Individuals like Walter the Dentist are no better than the nasty kid who goes around the neighbourhood shooting peoples pets with an air gun, same thing, more money.

[Randy Winkman]

And should people be allowed to do whatever they want if they pay for it?

[SPS]

The next asteroid is due anytime soon ...................

[ofcorsa]

For thousands of years man relied on his hunting instincts to survive,I can understand that hunting gives people a primal connection with nature. Illegal poaching should be punished to the full extent of the law however.