Why is Cannabis still illegal?

[e21Mark]

Derek Smith said:

e21Mark said:

I think there are obvious medicinal benefits for some people, but it's easy to see how the 'medicinal' card has been used and abused in the USA.

I think you will find that, if anything, the 'medical card' has been used to understate the beneficial effects of cannabis. Research into it for medical purposes was banned for years. The suggestion that attracts most support is that the big pharma didn't want something that they could not copyright getting in the way of profits. But then I don't know.

So the positive reports from around the world have been understated.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/health-benefits-of-m...

I'm not disputing some folk can benefit from medicinal use. What I meant was, 'medicinal use' has been hijacked by pretty much anyone/everyone looking to escape prosecution.

Does society really need / want another legal high though anyway?

Edited by e21Mark on Sunday 2nd August 19:28

[Derek Smith]

e21Mark said:

I'm not disputing some folk can benefit from medicinal use. What I meant was, 'medicinal use' has been hijacked by pretty much anyone/everyone looking to escape prosecution.

Does society really need / want another legal high though anyway?

Edited by e21Mark on Sunday 2nd August 19:28

Two points:

For years there has been pressure to exploit the various cannabinoids which promised so much. And, in many cases, delivered. But the Americans blocked any such research in their country and, if there was no exploiting the USA, there was no point is experimenting. I accept that it might be that people are making up various uses for it, but that cannot deny the fact that it is one of the most useful avenues of investigation. That those wanting to escape prosecution might well have tried to exploit its effectiveness should not diminish its undoubted effectiveness.

The second point is, I think, central to the argument. It is not 'another' legal high. It is here already. It is available now to anyone but your granny, and that's only because they don't let her out. Legalising it will have little effect on its availability.

I read an argument, with stats, that some of the efficatious nature of cannabis comes from those who smoke it not drinking so much alcohol. Now there's a thought.

[J4CKO]

loose cannon said:

Hmm cannabis resin safer than strong skunk ?
So boot polish, henna, mud, plastic, and god knows what other ground up crap is in it
Makes it far safer does it ? There's a reason people don't smoke the dirt anymore

Didn't say safer, back then we couldn't get hold of anything dead strong, so didn't get totally stoned.

[J4CKO]

loose cannon said:

Hmm cannabis resin safer than strong skunk ?
So boot polish, henna, mud, plastic, and god knows what other ground up crap is in it
Makes it far safer does it ? There's a reason people don't smoke the dirt anymore

Didn't say safer, back then we couldn't get hold of anything dead strong, so didn't get totally stoned.

[BJG1]

Threads like this always make me lose faith in my fellow man. In 100, maybe even 50 years time we'll look back on prohibition in a similar way to how we now look at persecuting people for being catholic, homosexual etc. People will just not be able to understand the mentality that allowed it.

I mean, look at the fking state of this Facebook post from Avon and Somerset police. People will look at that and piss themselves laughing at how stupid we are.

[jogon]

BJG1 said:

Threads like this always make me lose faith in my fellow man. In 100, maybe even 50 years time we'll look back on prohibition in a similar way to how we now look at persecuting people for being catholic, homosexual etc. People will just not be able to understand the mentality that allowed it.

I mean, look at the fking state of this Facebook post from Avon and Somerset police. People will look at that and piss themselves laughing at how stupid we are.

Wishful thinking. More likely alcohol will be banned as well and your wife will be wearing a burqa.

[blindswelledrat]

jogon said:

Wishful thinking. More likely alcohol will be banned as well and your wife will be wearing a burqa.

No it wont and no she won't.
If you really believe that then you are monumentally stupid.
If you don't really think that then why say it?

[LocoCoco]

Soir said:

I smoked it almost daily for 17 years

It was a waste of 17 years

Ban it & ban cigs while we are at it

I think it's pretty obvious that daily use for years is a problem, however, you could argue that about anything. Too much alcohol, too much sugar, too much water, almost everything has the potential to be bad for you if you misuse it.

It's unfair for you to blame those 17 wasted years on cannabis. That was your fault wasn't it? It'd make more sense to ban you from cannabis than to ban cannabis from the public. Congrats for turning thing around btw.

The millions of people who are able to enjoy cannabis/alcohol/sugar/caffeine/anything safely shouldn't be banned from doing so because some people can't/won't control themselves.

[Axionknight]

wolves_wanderer said:

Soir said:

I never suggested the years since I stopped have been a waste. I've been far more productive since then and regret the wasteful years (I'm not in a bad position now but believe I would be much further ahead than I am had I not spent time in earlier life on this crap)

I'm not going to make the infamous mistake of suggesting the powerfully built director quote!

I have school friends who still smoke weed regularly who are in their 40's. Quite a few live with their parents.

Save your breath. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates smoked weed so no matter how many fk-ups or mental patients you know it definitely isn't the weed that's the cause.

Affects everybody the same, does it?

[LocoCoco]

Axionknight said:

wolves_wanderer said:

Soir said:

I never suggested the years since I stopped have been a waste. I've been far more productive since then and regret the wasteful years (I'm not in a bad position now but believe I would be much further ahead than I am had I not spent time in earlier life on this crap)

I'm not going to make the infamous mistake of suggesting the powerfully built director quote!

I have school friends who still smoke weed regularly who are in their 40's. Quite a few live with their parents.

Save your breath. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates smoked weed so no matter how many fk-ups or mental patients you know it definitely isn't the weed that's the cause.

Affects everybody the same, does it?

It's like any other substance, it will affect everybody slightly differently, this is because people are all slightly different. You have a good argument for banning peanuts though.

Edited by LocoCoco on Monday 3rd August 11:12

[vetrof]

Axionknight said:

Affects everybody the same, does it?

Good point, precisely why a blanket 'drugs are bad' narrative is ridiculous.

[BJG1]

Ali G said:

You really are a complete tt.

The irony is strong here. DragonCaviar has gone to a lot of effort in his posts, he's not attacked anyone or been rude and he's posted lengthy, informed posts that you are free to disagree with. Why on earth you are abusing him for posting about the change in strength and make up of MDMA is beyond me. I know him well, you couldn't hope to meet a nicer bloke. This thread started off as an interesting discussion between intelligent people, with varying views, both for and against legalisation. Then you and Eric turned up and spoiled the whole thing one with abuse, the other with terribly informed, naïve and heavily bias posts

[AW111]

Anecdote #1
I have a cousin who is bipolar. He insist that weed (and mushrooms, and any other psychotropic substance he can lay his hands on) is completely harmless, but there is a clear pattern of him stopping his medication, smoking more and more then having a psychotic episode and being committed.
It is pretty clear to me that marijuana has a bad effect on him, although I would be wary of claiming the bipolar disorder is due to it.

Anecdote #2
I went to a party recently where a fair few people were smoking joints (surprise!).
It was a 50th birthday party, and the smokers there that I knew are all successful, hard working people, several professionals.
It is pretty clear to me that marijuana has had little, if any, detrimental effects on them.

Anecdote #3
I have known several people who have stuffed up their lives, some of them stoners, some alcoholics, some both, some neither.

As far as the gateway theory, most of the (older) people I know who smoke marijuana tried other drugs in their teens/early twenties, but didn't become regular users.

I personally think that marijuana should be legal to injest for adults, with the same caveats we apply to alcohol re driving etc.. However, I think both alcohol and marijuana are very bad for developing brains, and should be kept away from children & teenagers.

[vetrof]

AW111 said:

However, I think both alcohol and marijuana are very bad for developing brains, and should be kept away from children & teenagers.

Whole post is spot on, especially the quoted part.

In anecdote #1, it's difficult to argue that cannabis (or any other form of self medication) is not a good idea for anyone with existing mental issues.

I think a lot of the objections come from the fact that most non-users really have no idea how many people can safely and responsibly use. It's always the fk-ups that get all the press. At what point does the protection of a tiny minority from their own poor choices take precedence over the vast majority of people who are capable of being responsible.

[Tonsko]

loose cannon said:

Hmm cannabis resin safer than strong skunk ?
So boot polish, henna, mud, plastic, and god knows what other ground up crap is in it
Makes it far safer does it ? There's a reason people don't smoke the dirt anymore

That's only the one type of slate that's cheap as chips, for good reason. There as many myriad varieties of hash as there are strains of skunk. Some are also pretty strong, granted, e.g. scuff, which is pretty much compressed thc crystals straight off the bud (depending on the strain obvs). Others are nice and mild.

[vetrof]

If only there were some way of being to get exactly what you want when you want it. Suprisingly, to some people, when i smoke I very rarely want to get 'off my head'.

[anonymous-user]

vetrof said:

If only there were some way of being to get exactly what you want when you want it. Suprisingly, to some people, when i smoke I very rarely want to get 'off my head'.

This is what makes me chuckle, the assumption that everyone will smoke until they cannot function. Smoking TOO much isn't actually a very pleasant feeling, much the same as if you neck a bottle of whisky.

When my dad found out I smoked we had a chat about it, when I pointed out that he came home and had 2 whiskys of an evening (nearly every evening) not to get drunk but just to have a nice little drink at the end of a hard day and my smoking was exactly the same as that he understood better. The fact I had been doing it for a while before that and he hadn't noticed also allayed any fears about me smoking myself into a gibbering wreck.

Nowadays I sometimes do and sometimes don't, we generally head to Dam a couple of times a year for a weekend as well as its nice to choose the strain (and effect) that you want

[remkingston]

The only gateway effect from weed is the fact that purchasing it puts you in a position where you break a taboo; buying something illegal.

Once you've purchased something illegal, you don't mind purchasing anything illegal.

Many people take the fact that weed doesn't kill people and then wrongly assume that the other stuff that is illegal isn't as bad as it is made out to be which can be dangerous in its own right.

Remember your first exploits into piracy? Were you worried there was going to be a knock at the door before that 2 hour download on a 4MB mp3 was completed?

But as soon as you felt comfortable, all of a sudden you're learning about torrents and online streaming.

[Axionknight]

vetrof said:

Axionknight said:

Affects everybody the same, does it?

Good point, precisely why a blanket 'drugs are bad' narrative is ridiculous.

Not quite, I'd say, some are and some aren't, some are worse than others - unless you're willing to say that smack is A-OK for some people, of course?

Weed is fine for some people, I'd very well imagine, but bad for others, just like booze. Wolves was making a (sarcastic, I believe) point that very successful people had smoked weed in the past so it therefore could not be used as an excuse by ne'er do wells who smoke it.

Edited by Axionknight on Monday 3rd August 14:30

[Ali G]

BJG1 said:

The irony is strong here. DragonCaviar has gone to a lot of effort in his posts, he's not attacked anyone or been rude and he's posted lengthy, informed posts that you are free to disagree with. Why on earth you are abusing him for posting about the change in strength and make up of MDMA is beyond me. I know him well, you couldn't hope to meet a nicer bloke. This thread started off as an interesting discussion between intelligent people, with varying views, both for and against legalisation. Then you and Eric turned up and spoiled the whole thing one with abuse, the other with terribly informed, naïve and heavily bias posts

He may well have done - and the topic is 'Why is Cannabis still illegal?' Not 'Why is ecstasy still illegal'

Apparently, ecstasy has been the cause of a few deaths - you may choose to disagree.

And for all those who wish to do recreational drugs- just get on with it! And accept whom you are funding.

For balance - there are quite a few 'prescription' drugs which may be quite harmful.

From my perspective - what adults wish to by themselves (which presumes a certain level of competence and self-awareness) - or by or with other adults - is a matter for themselves - providing it HAS NO NEGATIVE IMPACT ON ANYONE ELSE.

Health services will always be there to pick up the pieces regardless.

I have some sympathy for those who wish to grow their own - for themselves and for mates - not something I do myself 'though.

And again 'Do What Ya Wanna Do' - and accept whatever consequences there may be down the road.

I seek no approval from anyone other than myself - I infer from you and your ilk that you do wish approval through state endorsement through legalisation - and all that that would entail.

I would legalise the use of the lot - and support the principle of 'caveat emptor' - much squealing from all sides would then ensue - particularly if the sources were found to be 'illegal'.