Why is Cannabis still illegal?
Discussion
wombleh said:
It's not a problem free substance but I'd still prefer it were controlled by health professionals with the proceeds into the tax coffers rather than criminals, because that is the only real choice here.
Prohibition never works, unless you profit from the enforcement or the underground activity.
Prohibition never works, unless you profit from the enforcement or the underground activity.
Quite.
I may be simplifying it, but currently it seems to me buying it must be like buying an opaque bottle labelled alcohol, it could be 3% strength beer, it could be 14% wine, it could be 45% whisky. Or it could be a mixture of all of those.
Under a legalised regime I would expect that people would be able to buy cannabis of a known strength from a licensed shop.
I realise there is the argument that it's a gateway drug leading to other drugs, but buying the dam stuff from a drug dealer is surely rather more likely to result in exposure to/offers of hard drugs than buying it from a shop?
Mafffew said:
Digga said:
I know quite a few people who have/do use the stuff and the majority are, to varying degrees, f
k ups. They might be quite intelligent, even hold down decent jobs, and very pleasant company but they are also fk ups - the sort of people prone to utterly stupid moments of uselessness and forgetfulness.
By no means a scientific survey, but an opinion I am not alone in sharing, despite not giving a fig about people using the stuff.
Replace weed with alcohol and you have the same situation, arguably worse. k ups. They might be quite intelligent, even hold down decent jobs, and very pleasant company but they are also fk ups - the sort of people prone to utterly stupid moments of uselessness and forgetfulness.By no means a scientific survey, but an opinion I am not alone in sharing, despite not giving a fig about people using the stuff.
There is no legitimate reason for it still being illegal.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist (you don't have to be), but its obvious there's some pretty significant commercial interests that stand to loose out. Politicians and governments have often feared the legitimisation of psychoactive substances, as it can produce significant terrible unwanted effects such as free-thinking, rejection of existing structures, demand for political and social change (late 60's LSD, 80's / 90's MDMA etc.). Alcohol has the opposite effect of numbing people to their existing lives
People who are drawn into addictive and self-destructive cycles will do that with what ever gives them what they want IMO. Legalise, regulate it, and don't metaphorically force it down peoples throat by selling it at every bloody cornershop, petrol station, or social event...
Mafffew said:
Digga said:
I know quite a few people who have/do use the stuff and the majority are, to varying degrees, fk ups. They might be quite intelligent, even hold down decent jobs, and very pleasant company but they are also fk ups - the sort of people prone to utterly stupid moments of uselessness and forgetfulness.
By no means a scientific survey, but an opinion I am not alone in sharing, despite not giving a fig about people using the stuff.
Replace weed with alcohol and you have the same situation, arguably worse. k ups. They might be quite intelligent, even hold down decent jobs, and very pleasant company but they are also fk ups - the sort of people prone to utterly stupid moments of uselessness and forgetfulness.By no means a scientific survey, but an opinion I am not alone in sharing, despite not giving a fig about people using the stuff.
There is no legitimate reason for it still being illegal.
How many people are treated on the NHS for illnesses relating to alcohol abuse use vs the use of canabis?
Mafffew said:
Digga said:
I know quite a few people who have/do use the stuff and the majority are, to varying degrees, fk ups. They might be quite intelligent, even hold down decent jobs, and very pleasant company but they are also fk ups - the sort of people prone to utterly stupid moments of uselessness and forgetfulness.
By no means a scientific survey, but an opinion I am not alone in sharing, despite not giving a fig about people using the stuff.
Replace weed with alcohol and you have the same situation, arguably worse. k ups. They might be quite intelligent, even hold down decent jobs, and very pleasant company but they are also fk ups - the sort of people prone to utterly stupid moments of uselessness and forgetfulness.By no means a scientific survey, but an opinion I am not alone in sharing, despite not giving a fig about people using the stuff.
Mafffew said:
There is no legitimate reason for it still being illegal.
For some inexplicable reason, you edited out the last line of my post which agrees with this. That or you're one of 'them' and you somehow accidentally 'lost' part of my quote. thebraketester said:
Mafffew said:
Digga said:
I know quite a few people who have/do use the stuff and the majority are, to varying degrees, fk ups. They might be quite intelligent, even hold down decent jobs, and very pleasant company but they are also fk ups - the sort of people prone to utterly stupid moments of uselessness and forgetfulness.
By no means a scientific survey, but an opinion I am not alone in sharing, despite not giving a fig about people using the stuff.
Replace weed with alcohol and you have the same situation, arguably worse. k ups. They might be quite intelligent, even hold down decent jobs, and very pleasant company but they are also fk ups - the sort of people prone to utterly stupid moments of uselessness and forgetfulness.By no means a scientific survey, but an opinion I am not alone in sharing, despite not giving a fig about people using the stuff.
There is no legitimate reason for it still being illegal.
How many people are treated on the NHS for illnesses relating to alcohol abuse use vs the use of canabis?
At the end of the day people have to get off their tits on something or we'd all explode in this modern world, so it's a case of looking at what is the least worst option.
Timmy45 said:
wombleh said:
It's not a problem free substance but I'd still prefer it were controlled by health professionals with the proceeds into the tax coffers rather than criminals, because that is the only real choice here.
Prohibition never works, unless you profit from the enforcement or the underground activity.
Prohibition never works, unless you profit from the enforcement or the underground activity.
Quite.
I may be simplifying it, but currently it seems to me buying it must be like buying an opaque bottle labelled alcohol, it could be 3% strength beer, it could be 14% wine, it could be 45% whisky. Or it could be a mixture of all of those.
Under a legalised regime I would expect that people would be able to buy cannabis of a known strength from a licensed shop.
I realise there is the argument that it's a gateway drug leading to other drugs, but buying the dam stuff from a drug dealer is surely rather more likely to result in exposure to/offers of hard drugs than buying it from a shop?
Equally I agree with the other poster's comment about it not being made available in every garage and corner shop. A first step should be medically licensed, though seeing the paper thin consultation process in USA presumably that wouldn't apply here.
Digga said:
For some inexplicable reason, you edited out the last line of my post which agrees with this. That or you're one of 'them' and you somehow accidentally 'lost' part of my quote.
Not sure who they are or what they do! Just the Mafia and prohibition America is not an area I know much about, so can't really comment on it. Timmy45 said:
I may be simplifying it, but currently it seems to me buying it must be like buying an opaque bottle labelled alcohol,
It all depends on the individual I would imagine, but (and I speak generally, from past experience) some suppliers are now more attuned to the more enlightened way of approaching things as they do in places like Colorado / Holland etc in that strains, types, relative proportions of CBD/THC, strength and 'quality' are diverse but fairly consistent. It used to be you took what you could find and found out actually what it was post-use. Now you can order up particular varieties depending on what particular thing works for you best. Although illegal, suppliers are still affected by basic commercial rules that mean a poor quality product will not attract much repeat business and although I'm sure there is an element that through 'bravado' goes for the most potent available, most people (perhaps of more advanced years) will go for particular effects that leave them functional but 'high' rather than just 'groged out'.
Essentially you're right, but in practise it's quite discerning nowadays, apparently; bit like craft beer.
andy_s said:
Essentially you're right, but in practise it's quite discerning nowadays, apparently; bit like craft beer.
Which quite clearly shows this is a 'mature' market, serving normal, healthy and otherwise 'law-abiding' individuals which use it sustainably. It's just that the government refuses / cannot politically acknowledge this.Having spent large amounts of time in various places where it's legal, I've come to appreciate how utterly backwards the UK approach has been.
In moderation, bought from legitimate sources, it's honestly no worse than alcohol.
Anything can be abused, doesn't mean it should be illegal.
It would also put some much needed money back into the economy. The tax from legalising sales could be a HUGE boost to our flagging NHS and police forces...whilst drug related crime will decrease (as has been shown in california, the previously illegal growers in mexico have gone legit, and it has lowered cartel related crime a lot).
In moderation, bought from legitimate sources, it's honestly no worse than alcohol.
Anything can be abused, doesn't mean it should be illegal.
It would also put some much needed money back into the economy. The tax from legalising sales could be a HUGE boost to our flagging NHS and police forces...whilst drug related crime will decrease (as has been shown in california, the previously illegal growers in mexico have gone legit, and it has lowered cartel related crime a lot).
Edited by designforlife on Tuesday 19th June 10:26
FiF said:
Yep, the problem with cannabis is there is no control over the production and what you are getting. The analogy about the opaque bottle labelled alcohol of any strength, which could be decent stuff or dodgy poteen is a good one. Medical drug production, approval, testing and dosage is as it is for good reason.
Equally I agree with the other poster's comment about it not being made available in every garage and corner shop. A first step should be medically licensed, though seeing the paper thin consultation process in USA presumably that wouldn't apply here.
This is completely wrong and the analogy is poorEqually I agree with the other poster's comment about it not being made available in every garage and corner shop. A first step should be medically licensed, though seeing the paper thin consultation process in USA presumably that wouldn't apply here.
High strength cannabis is much more expensive and easily identifiable as such
Resin as incorrectly stated by another poster, is not typically a high strength product unless it is a pure and very expensive variant like bubble hash or trichomes which are not stumbled upon by chance or found on the street
There is no issue with people accidentally buying high strength accidentally in place of low as the price is double or more typically
There is an issue with people buying high strength and it causing underlying and/or undiagnosed mental health issues being brought to the fore. High strength is not a new phenomenon and has been around since at least I was a teen in the mid 90’s
It’s also not necessarily the cannabis that causes people to be ‘f
k ups’ as per another posters assertion. Maybe they like cannabis as they are fk ups. Not proven either way and doesn’t make a positive case for cannabis but just pointing this outI don’t think legalising it is all upside but prefer a pure controlled supply chain than Thai slaves ruining rental houses with dodgy cannabis factories, drug gangs, needless criminalisation of young people who are likely to be causing less hassle to society with violence, accidents and tying up police and hospital with drunken antics, and free up a reasonable amount of precious police resource to do something more important. Downside is that some people get psychosis. Not ideal but at least they can be told the risks.
in my mind it is only worth having legislation that can be practically enforced and that is worth enforcing. I don’t think the current laws meet these criteria
Interesting to see Corbyns response to this as no doubt personally he would support it strongly as would his alternative supporters but whether he could bring himself to admit this is doubtful to me
Edited by jakesmith on Tuesday 19th June 10:31
designforlife said:
Having spent large amounts of time in various places where it's legal, I've come to appreciate how utterly backwards the UK approach has been.
In moderation, bought from legitimate sources, it's honestly no worse than alcohol.
Anything can be abused, doesn't mean it should be illegal.
It would also put some much needed money back into the economy. The tax from legalising sales could be a HUGE boost to our flagging NHS and police forces...whilst drug related crime will decrease (as has been shown in california, the previously illegal growers in mexico have gone legit, and it has lowered cartel related crime a lot).
it would also give farmers a much needed diversification option In moderation, bought from legitimate sources, it's honestly no worse than alcohol.
Anything can be abused, doesn't mean it should be illegal.
It would also put some much needed money back into the economy. The tax from legalising sales could be a HUGE boost to our flagging NHS and police forces...whilst drug related crime will decrease (as has been shown in california, the previously illegal growers in mexico have gone legit, and it has lowered cartel related crime a lot).
Edited by designforlife on Tuesday 19th June 10:26
jakesmith said:
FiF said:
Yep, the problem with cannabis is there is no control over the production and what you are getting. The analogy about the opaque bottle labelled alcohol of any strength, which could be decent stuff or dodgy poteen is a good one. Medical drug production, approval, testing and dosage is as it is for good reason.
Equally I agree with the other poster's comment about it not being made available in every garage and corner shop. A first step should be medically licensed, though seeing the paper thin consultation process in USA presumably that wouldn't apply here.
This is completely wrong and the analogy is poorEqually I agree with the other poster's comment about it not being made available in every garage and corner shop. A first step should be medically licensed, though seeing the paper thin consultation process in USA presumably that wouldn't apply here.
High strength cannabis is much more expensive and easily identifiable as such
Personally, I would support state controlled regulation of cannabis as lot of things in this world are harmful or dangerous. Choosing what you do is all part of being a responsible adult.
jakesmith said:
This is completely wrong and the analogy is poor
High strength cannabis is much more expensive and easily identifiable as such
Resin as incorrectly stated by another poster, is not typically a high strength product unless it is a pure and very expensive variant like bubble hash or trichomes which are not stumbled upon by chance or found on the street
There is no issue with people accidentally buying high strength accidentally in place of low as the price is double or more typically
There is an issue with people buying high strength and it causing underlying and/or undiagnosed mental health issues being brought to the fore. High strength is not a new phenomenon and has been around since at least I was a teen in the mid 90’s
It’s also not necessarily the cannabis that causes people to be ‘fk ups’ as per another posters assertion. Maybe they like cannabis as they are fk ups. Not proven either way and doesn’t make a positive case for cannabis but just pointing this out
I don’t think legalising it is all upside but prefer a pure controlled supply chain than Thai slaves ruining rental houses with dodgy cannabis factories, drug gangs, needless criminalisation of young people who are likely to be causing less hassle to society with violence, accidents and tying up police and hospital with drunken antics, and free up a reasonable amount of precious police resource to do something more important. Downside is that some people get psychosis. Not ideal but at least they can be told the risks.
in my mind it is only worth having legislation that can be practically enforced and that is worth enforcing. I don’t think the current laws meet these criteria
Interesting to see Corbyns response to this as no doubt personally he would support it strongly as would his alternative supporters but whether he could bring himself to admit this is doubtful to me
So you appear to be saying that the only control on what you are actually getting is based on a price model assuming the customer is sufficiently knowledgeable to know the ins and outs of the product and all sellers are truthful and fully open about their supply. Otherwise there is no control. Not sure that's any effective control in reality, considering the current route to market, but guess we are going to have to agree to disagree.High strength cannabis is much more expensive and easily identifiable as such
Resin as incorrectly stated by another poster, is not typically a high strength product unless it is a pure and very expensive variant like bubble hash or trichomes which are not stumbled upon by chance or found on the street
There is no issue with people accidentally buying high strength accidentally in place of low as the price is double or more typically
There is an issue with people buying high strength and it causing underlying and/or undiagnosed mental health issues being brought to the fore. High strength is not a new phenomenon and has been around since at least I was a teen in the mid 90’s
It’s also not necessarily the cannabis that causes people to be ‘f
k ups’ as per another posters assertion. Maybe they like cannabis as they are fk ups. Not proven either way and doesn’t make a positive case for cannabis but just pointing this outI don’t think legalising it is all upside but prefer a pure controlled supply chain than Thai slaves ruining rental houses with dodgy cannabis factories, drug gangs, needless criminalisation of young people who are likely to be causing less hassle to society with violence, accidents and tying up police and hospital with drunken antics, and free up a reasonable amount of precious police resource to do something more important. Downside is that some people get psychosis. Not ideal but at least they can be told the risks.
in my mind it is only worth having legislation that can be practically enforced and that is worth enforcing. I don’t think the current laws meet these criteria
Interesting to see Corbyns response to this as no doubt personally he would support it strongly as would his alternative supporters but whether he could bring himself to admit this is doubtful to me
Edited by jakesmith on Tuesday 19th June 10:31
We both agree that there should be a pure controlled supply chain, and that any legislation should be practical and enforceable.
EddieSteadyGo said:
jakesmith said:
FiF said:
Yep, the problem with cannabis is there is no control over the production and what you are getting. The analogy about the opaque bottle labelled alcohol of any strength, which could be decent stuff or dodgy poteen is a good one. Medical drug production, approval, testing and dosage is as it is for good reason.
Equally I agree with the other poster's comment about it not being made available in every garage and corner shop. A first step should be medically licensed, though seeing the paper thin consultation process in USA presumably that wouldn't apply here.
This is completely wrong and the analogy is poorEqually I agree with the other poster's comment about it not being made available in every garage and corner shop. A first step should be medically licensed, though seeing the paper thin consultation process in USA presumably that wouldn't apply here.
High strength cannabis is much more expensive and easily identifiable as such
Personally, I would support state controlled regulation of cannabis as lot of things in this world are harmful or dangerous. Choosing what you do is all part of being a responsible adult.
Most Cannabis is bought in £20 bags and is loosely defined as "Skunk" the strains with higher THC are the more popular and you have no choice over the Sativa/Indica/THC/CBD content
The high strength being more expensive is a bit of a misnomer
Having the freedom to choose strength and strain here would be brilliant. Not all users are teenagers with no self control who want to smoke until they can't move.
Some of us just want some nice mellow sativa. My soon to be wife completed community college, an undergrad and 2 masters degrees whilst smoking fairly regularly, but then she was in the US and had the freedom to choose what she smoked.
It's pot luck what you get here, and that is the danger/risk. Legalising removes that risk and puts more control in the hands of the user.
Drink responsibly...smoke responsibly.
Some of us just want some nice mellow sativa. My soon to be wife completed community college, an undergrad and 2 masters degrees whilst smoking fairly regularly, but then she was in the US and had the freedom to choose what she smoked.
It's pot luck what you get here, and that is the danger/risk. Legalising removes that risk and puts more control in the hands of the user.
Drink responsibly...smoke responsibly.
Mafffew said:
Digga said:
For some inexplicable reason, you edited out the last line of my post which agrees with this. That or you're one of 'them' and you somehow accidentally 'lost' part of my quote.
Not sure who they are or what they do! Just the Mafia and prohibition America is not an area I know much about, so can't really comment on it. Management summary: the mob made huge amounts of money during the 13 years of prohibition. They made money from making and selling illegal alcohol (some of which was so dangerous it sent people blind) and also from running illicit drinking clubs (Speakeasys). The black market they exploited was created by prohibition.
jakesmith said:
Resin as incorrectly stated by another poster, is not typically a high strength product unless it is a pure and very expensive variant like bubble hash or trichomes which are not stumbled upon by chance or found on the street
I used to partake when I was younger and resin was ALWAYS much stronger than grass. I would liken it to the difference between wine and vodka. designforlife said:
Having the freedom to choose strength and strain here would be brilliant. Not all users are teenagers with no self control who want to smoke until they can't move.
Some of us just want some nice mellow sativa. My soon to be wife completed community college, an undergrad and 2 masters degrees whilst smoking fairly regularly, but then she was in the US and had the freedom to choose what she smoked.
It's pot luck what you get here, and that is the danger/risk. Legalising removes that risk and puts more control in the hands of the user.
Drink responsibly...smoke responsibly.
Exactly thisSome of us just want some nice mellow sativa. My soon to be wife completed community college, an undergrad and 2 masters degrees whilst smoking fairly regularly, but then she was in the US and had the freedom to choose what she smoked.
It's pot luck what you get here, and that is the danger/risk. Legalising removes that risk and puts more control in the hands of the user.
Drink responsibly...smoke responsibly.
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