Why is Cannabis still illegal?

[BJG1]

HRL said:

Not really a strange argument. I wouldn't class magic mushrooms or MDMA at the same low harm level as weed. LSD has been linked with plenty of mental health issues and MDMA is only low risk in its purest form, very rarely the form that finds its way onto the streets.

Weed is safer and less harmful than alcohol, and that's a fact.

Magic mushrooms and MDMA are less harmful than alcohol, that is a fact.

I'm not sure why you've brought up LSD, I didn't mention it and the chemical make-up of it is completely different to Magic Mushrooms, you cannot conflate the two.

You're right, MDMA is only low risk in its purest form and that rarely makes it to the streets - that is exactly why it should be legal.

[technodup]

Given the choice I'd legalise everything. The black market won't disappear as it hasn't with fags or booze, but it would help bring controls in quality and distrobution, and provide revenue for addiction programmes.

It (should be) pretty clear to everyone the war on drugs has been, is and always will be a failure- we're 40 years in and we're taking more than ever.

I don't smoke weed and have no sympathy with junkies but I watched a Vice news doc on Spice this week. If that's the future with drugs illegal and various 'legal' highs being used as substitues then its not a pretty sight.

[FredClogs]

Tonsko said:

I would like to argue though, that regulating MDMA and suchlike would actually make it safer.

The price of legal, taxed and regulated narcotics distributed by people on the living wage would be far far higher than the price of Chinese chemistry students experiments shipped in peoples colons and sold on the black market. It's one of the paradoxes. Weed is a bit different because you can simply grow it and the market for weed is much larger because it's largely harmless, but to make selling E, Molly, MDMA (whatever) a legal and profitable enterprise you'd need 2/3s of the adult population regularly using (like alcohol) and I'm just not sure I want to live in that world... Maybe I do, but it's a leap into the unknown. The reason the UK stopped Opiates and Cocaine being easily available was that it was starting to become a real issue for society and our ability to fight WW1

[C0ffin D0dger]

jogon said:

C0ffin D0dger said:

Twenty years ago I'd be totally in the legalise it camp, used to enjoy a good smoke from time to time. However it did lead me to have a few episodes which you might argue could be unrelated to the dope but if nothing else it only helped to heighten my anxiety and paranoia at the time. Spent several months dealing with panic attacks and I'm not sure that once you've experienced that sort of thing that you're ever quite the same again. I can now identify the onset of a panic attack early on and do something about it, luckily I don't have them often if at all. Gave it up a long time ago and not sure I'd want to smoke it now as looking after two young kids is hard enough without an altered consciousness (sleep deprivation aside). So purely based on my experiences I'd say the long term issues to the mental health of users is real and should therefore be considered carefully before making it more readily available.

I would classify it as a gateway drug also, not saying I got offered heroin or crack but at that time cannabis was just a part of the drugs culture. Obviously ecstasy was the thing back then and of course whoever I was buying my weed of would have other stuff available. Consequently tried ecstasy, LSD, speed and cocaine at various times although was never the type to be out "partying" ever single weekend but stuff like that was available if I wanted it. I suppose if it were legal that element would be removed, you'd just go to the shop to buy some weed and there wouldn't be anything else available to you.

Ever been to a hazardous drinkers meeting? I gave up booze recently, 8 weeks on Monday, and have been and the stories told of anxiety, panic attacks and subsequent self medicating with further alcohol which only exacerbates the problem is quite a common theme. Should we ban booze too?

No I haven't mostly as I don't have a problem with drink though I'm sure we've all experienced "the fear" after a heavy night out. I never had a problem with weed either, would have classed myself as a light recreational smoker back in the day - i.e. only at the weekends, not every weekend, a 2-3 joints on a night. A quarter of weed would last me ages Just saying it was detrimental to my mental state at the time but they may have just been due to whatever else was going on in my life at the time rather than the weed itself. May have been experiencing the same problems weed or no weed, who knows? Just my experience. I'd like to try it again one day but probably in retirement to help with my arthritis or whatever ails me

[jogon]

FredClogs said:

There is enough money being made in Colorado and Washington state at the moment for a pretty large company to emerge as market leaders... It will happen, the US will end up with a large company who specialise in growing and marketing weed or a cigarette company like Phillip Morris will move into that space... What could possibly go wrong???

I don't see it happening with weed as you can grow better stuff than you can find in the dam in your wardrobe at home with an investment that costs less than the flights and hotel for a long weekend. How will the nasty corporations get around this?

[BJG1]

FredClogs said:

The price of legal, taxed and regulated narcotics distributed by people on the living wage would be far far higher than the price of Chinese chemistry students experiments shipped in peoples colons and sold on the black market. It's one of the paradoxes. Weed is a bit different because you can simply grow it and the market for weed is much larger because it's largely harmless, but to make selling E, Molly, MDMA (whatever) a legal and profitable enterprise you'd need 2/3s of the adult population regularly using (like alcohol) and I'm just not sure I want to live in that world... Maybe I do, but it's a leap into the unknown. The reason the UK stopped Opiates and Cocaine being easily available was that it was starting to become a real issue for society and our ability to fight WW1

I am 100% certain that a world where people drop an E on a Saturday night rather than drinking 8 pints would be a safer and happier one. Shame it won't happen.

[FredClogs]

jogon said:

I don't see it happening with weed as you can grow better stuff than you can find in the dam in your wardrobe at home with an investment that costs less than the flights and hotel for a long weekend. How will the nasty corporations get around this?

With a small back yard you can grow nearly all the food you need to eat with a bit of hard work and knowledge, but people don't because we're lazy and lets be fair pit heads are not known for their tireless work ethic... The reality in Colorado is that people are buying ready grown product, and in large quantities and its getting cheap.to buy, very cheap.

[Petrol Only]

jogon said:

I don't see it happening with weed as you can grow better stuff than you can find in the dam in your wardrobe at home with an investment that costs less than the flights and hotel for a long weekend. How will the nasty corporations get around this?

If you allowed sale and consumption similar to Amsterdam, what a fantastic use of all those closing pubs that would be . Then most people wouldn't bother to grow their own. Lots of tax take possible then.

[Tonsko]

Interesting point about the economies of scale re: MDMA etc. Not something that I'd considered. However, once set up, it would mainly run itself, would it not?

[FredClogs]

BJG1 said:

I am 100% certain that a world where people drop an E on a Saturday night rather than drinking 8 pints would be a safer and happier one. Shame it won't happen.

That's what I used to think.... But looking back... Hmmm., not so sure...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6VSp1C_ss3Y

[BJG1]

FredClogs said:

That's what I used to think.... But looking back... Hmmm., not so sure...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6VSp1C_ss3Y

Those guys really love chewing gum...

[smileymikey]

Oakey said:

John145 said:

Yes, obviously, and pretty much everyone I know drinks alcohol. Only one person I know personally smokes cannabis. Surprising none of my friends (drinkers) are alcoholics. Every person I've met who regularly smoke weed and the one I know closely, all are "odd".

The damage to the brain is irreparable and imo is the most important organ in the human body. Yes alcoholism destroys the brain but its much rarer to be an alcoholic than to have the brain damaged by marijuana, when you consider the ratio of users to problems.

I don't believe the scientific evidence I've seen because from my personal experience, it's wrong. I put the error down to the method of experimentation and the use of flaky statistics.

Do you have any evidence for this statement?

According to Alcohol Concern the NHS estimates around 9% of the UK male population are alcohol dependent. That's around 3million men. Doesn't sound very rare.

As a recovering alcoholic and a very occasional cannabis smoker.... I would respectfully suggest that you are in fact way of the mark in terms of the damage done by the two substances. Its also worth noting that traditional hashish and naturally grown herbal cannabis do not produce the psychological disturbances associated with the skunk varieties.

[smileymikey]

We would perhaps get a calmer more objective view of drugs by our politicians.......If they weren't of there tits on coke half the time

[FredClogs]

BJG1 said:

FredClogs said:

That's what I used to think.... But looking back... Hmmm., not so sure...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6VSp1C_ss3Y

Those guys really love chewing gum...

Makes my jaw ache just watching it... No one has ever quantified the contribution those guys made to the sales of Extra and Vick's vapour rub.

[jogon]

FredClogs said:

With a small back yard you can grow nearly all the food you need to eat with a bit of hard work and knowledge, but people don't because we're lazy and lets be fair pit heads are not known for their tireless work ethic... The reality in Colorado is that people are buying ready grown product, and in large quantities and its getting cheap.to buy, very cheap.

Imagine how many you could 'feed' with a field..

[Eric Mc]

smileymikey said:

We would perhaps get a calmer more objective view of drugs by our politicians.......If they weren't of there tits on coke half the time

Hmmm - have we been partaking of some substance?

[FredClogs]

Tonsko said:

Interesting point about the economies of scale re: MDMA etc. Not something that I'd considered. However, once set up, it would mainly run itself, would it not?

When I was a young man (mid/late 90s) E cost £15 plus, I don't know what it costs now, but I suspect the price has risen and fallen based on demand and fashion and who and where the market is being run from. I think the reality is that if legal and regulated narcotics (for want of a better word) were supplied through the sort of supply chain Tescos might use and was made and tested by Chemistry graduates with £50k of student debt etc... the price is going to be higher (and possibly unfeasibly high) than some thug in St Helens buying a crate from China (the chinese are getting a bad rap in this, but they do appear to be the source for a lot of this stuff nowadays). You'd have other options on what to spend your £15 and young people especially aren't going to waste money on official merchandise - the black or grey market will have a head start that will be hard to catch up too.

[iambeowulf]

The problem is that the people who usually evangalise about cannabis tend to be a but OTT about its benefits. Then there's the fact that canabanoids when extracted are supposed to cure/help all sorts of ailments.
Cannabis resin is supposed to be the wonder drug everyone should take because we've got the same canabanoids inside us. (Even though there's no evidence of our early ancestors ingesting it)

Smoking cannabis has no health benefits (why would burning something and inhaling it be good) and the people who smoke it don't do it because of it health benefits. They just want to get stoned!

[BJG1]

We had a similar topic a year ago - I implore you all to read Dragoncaviar's posts on the matter, some very educational stuff: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[RichB]

The Spruce goose said:

too many scare mongers, i've smoked a bit, not got addicted to heavier drugs and work. maybe 1 in a 1000 goes nuts, that is what people focus on...

Unfortunately my son must be one of the 1000 you mention. He is now 33 but got got into cannabis at school when he was about 16. In his early 20s he was 'sectioned' and in hospital for 6 weeks, probably the lowest point of my life seeing your own son shuffling round like a zombie in a mental ward. A year later he was back in again for another spell. He has "Cannabis induced psychosis". Posts absolute unintelligible stuff on FB, talks to himself, cannot hold a job for more than 6 weeks; gets paid thinks he's rich beyond his wildest dreams, blows it on dope, doesn't turn up for work until Tuesday and gets sacked etc. etc. Over the last 15 years it's been a nightmare. Apart from that he's a lovely chap and would have been very bright working in web design and network software. As it is I expect he'll be on benefits all his life, never achieve anything, probably never have a steady girlfriend or have a family etc. I don't think he enjoys life much but maintains dope is harmless and like many on here says it should be legalised! Bless him... Forgive me for having a jaundiced view.