5p charge for plastic bags from October 2015 to cut usage

[sleepezy]

Alex said:

Law of unintended consequences. I now throw away a big thick plastic bag rather than a small thin one.

And, ultimately, it increases the price per tonne of household waste disposal (lower CV content means it's less 'valuable' as an RDF source) - agree though that it will reduce waste volume - pretty typically by 70-75% fewer carrier bags taken from stores.

[madbadger]

Alex said:

Law of unintended consequences. I now throw away a big thick plastic bag rather than a small thin one.

You could reuse it instead?

Or if you really want to make a point then buy one of the really sturdy hessian bags and throw that away instead. That will show them.

[funkyrobot]

I've found a way around the issue.

I now reverse my car into the store and park it next to the till. Job jobbed.

[George111]

Raify said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Alex said:

Law of unintended consequences. I now throw away a big thick plastic bag rather than a small thin one.

But you have fewer to throw away. Years ago we used to have hundreds of the things now not so many.

Another law of unintended consequences. I now have to buy and throw away bin liner bags, rather than re-use old carrier bags. Net plastic saving = 0

I also bin them - even the thicker ones from Sainsbury's as when buying meat, especially chicken, you don't want to be reusing the bag for more food afterwards. The original thin bags were great for workshop waste, dog poo from the garden etc but we now buy more bags and have to dispose of more plastic than before.

What we need are large plastic boxes which fit in the trolleys. These could be cleaned and reused safely and would also offer more protection to the food. You could even make one with freezer blocks in it to keep frozen food cold. That would be a proper solution, not a political knee jerk reaction to a moaning bunch of environmentalists and a non-problem.

[TheBear]

Where I used to live we had the same reaction when it was introduced years ago.

People were up in arms, complete over reaction, claiming to now use more bags than ever, leaving their shopping at the till etc. You know, totally over the top hysteria.

After about a month it became normal.

After about a year everyone saw that it was a great idea. I think landfill volume of the bags went down something like 70%.

Far less bags littered around as well.

[qube_TA]

I think it's probably a good idea but it's a little frustrating.

I re-use my supermarket bags as bin bags, I have a container I store them in, when I need to throw away some food waste, or empty the cat litter then out comes an old bag and into the black bin it goes, tie a knot in the top and sorted. They're thin, recyclable and designed to be all 'eco' so should break down when they go into the landfill.

Now I can't get those, I have to either buy those small bin bags or throw away my 'bags for life' neither which are 'eco' in that they dissolve when in the ground.

[Sticks.]

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but my online shopping delivery uses far more bags than I ever have. It was so noticeable last time I counted the bags and items* 72 items, 35 bags. Apparently it's because items are picked and bagged per aisle, hence possibly getting only a few items to each bag. Tesco has applied a flat 40p charge for bagged deliveries, there's the option of no bags, and they'll take bag and recycle them.

I stopped at a Tesco on the way home yesterday and saw a man walking away with armfuls of shopping. All to save 5p, unless he'd been shoplifting I suppose.

* I don't usually do this

[soad]

You can buy biodegradable bin liners though.

One example:

[turbobloke]

qube_TA said:

...'eco' in that they dissolve when in the ground.

Ordinary plastic bags do that as well, over a longer timescale. It will happen eventually above ground also.

As per earlier comments in this thread, it's a political idea not a scientific idea.

"Something must be done". This is something, so they must do it.

Basically pointless but undoubtedly populist with 1p per bag to the Exchequer so it's a politician's wet dream.

[Alex]

madbadger said:

Alex said:

Law of unintended consequences. I now throw away a big thick plastic bag rather than a small thin one.

You could reuse it instead?

Or if you really want to make a point then buy one of the really sturdy hessian bags and throw that away instead. That will show them.

For my weekly shop, I do that already, but not when I'm buying a drink and a snack for my commute home.

[DrDoofenshmirtz]

I bought the Mrs some Trolley Bags - she loves them and keeps getting asked by random strangers where she got them...
They slot on the trolley and you just unload straight into the car boot - very neat solution.

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/around-the-home/carrying...

[soad]

funkyrobot said:

I've found a way around the issue.

I now reverse my car into the store and park it next to the till. Job jobbed.

Or use a wheeled suitcase.

[qube_TA]

soad said:

You can buy biodegradable bin liners though.

One example:

Doesn't that mess with the bin-mens colour-coding for landfill stuff?

I buy those but they the big bin-bag things, never seen little ones.

If I'm making dinner, the food waste (tops of peppers etc) I put in a small shopping bag and throw it straight into the outside bin. If I have a big bin bag I have to leave it open, for about 3 weeks whilst I chuck everything in and it gets smelly in the kitchen before I can then tie the top and throw it out.

I'll adapt, but it's a hassle with no benefit.

[Foliage]

Im just gonna buy only what I can carry in my hands, so 20-30 trips to the shops a week, what could go wrong.

[hornet]

This (and Bake Off...) have been the hot topic in the office over the last few days, and some of the complaints are hilarious. It's really not difficult to take a bag to the shops, and in the event you forget, 5p isn't going to kill you. There's also a certain irony in moaning about a 5p bag charge when you've just £7 on an Itsu lunch, but maybe that's just me? Thing I found interesting is that when asked, none of the people moaning had read the Policy or any of the reports on the experience of the Welsh scheme. Just seemed to be moaning for the sake of it to be honest.

On the subject of how donations to good causes will be tracked, there is a reporting regime :-


You must record for the whole reporting year:

* the number of single-use carrier bags you supplied
* the gross and net proceeds of the charge
* any VAT in the gross proceeds
* what you did with the proceeds from the charge
* any reasonable costs and how they break down

Looking at the above, not that difficult to reconcile the donations made versus the proceeds reported, so any dubious behaviour is going to come to light pretty quickly. The above information must also be made public, which presumably is intended to maintain pressure, as I can't see retailers wanting the negative publicity of fiddling things, especially with the current pressure from the discounters.

Having read a few other reports about the experience in Wales, there does seem to have been a significant shift in consumer perception and behaviour, resulting in a significant reduction in bag use, even accounting for the increase in "Bag for Life" use.

http://gov.wales/docs/caecd/research/2015/150904-p...

http://gov.wales/docs/desh/publications/130718beha...

IMO most reaction against is down to people resenting having a change in behaviour forced on them. We've become so used to the convenience of bags and so incapable of planning our shopping that we resent being told we now have to take a bit more responsibility, and all the huffing and puffing is just a diversion so we don't have to confront how lazy and throwaway we've become.

[colonel c]

Only limited experience so far. The Tesco self service machine ask how many bags you used and charge accordingly. I suppose if one was feeling stingy one could cheat and enter 1 instead of 2, 3 whatever.

[Digger]

I don't think you can do that as the quantity comes up on the cashiers screen when you go and ask them for the bags. At least that is what happens in my Metro.

[sleepezy]

qube_TA said:

in that they dissolve when in the ground.

None of them go into the ground anymore (if you're using them for black bin waste).

Almost all UK black bin waste (said almost all as someone will find somewhere in a remote location that doesn't) goes into an MBT plant that separates out organic waste, metals and recyclable plastics (generally doing a bad job). What's left is converted into refuse derived fuel (RDF) that is incinerated, one way or another, in a power station, either abroad (mainly Holland) or increasingly in the UK.

Dumping it in landfill is the very last resort as it costs a fortune.

Plastics you put into your recycling are either recycled, if possible, or converted into a 'potent' form of RDF.

Don't bother with bio-degradable bags for black bin waste, they go nowhere near the ground anyway - only bother with those for food waste which goes through a separate composting process.

Edited by sleepezy on Friday 9th October 13:55

[turbobloke]

hornet said:

IMO most reaction against is down to people resenting having a change in behaviour forced on them.

If it's being imposed for a demonstrably good reason, has a sound scientific basis, fine, there will be some high intertia individuals but onwards and upwards we go.

If not, people who take the trouble to look into the fine grain details of the claimed basis for the change in behaviour being forced on them will ask why, and when they realise the answer isn't what they expected then those people will continue to doubt the real-worldliness of politicians and question their poor choices around which advice to listen to.

[Hol]

Im surprised nobody has mentione dthis story yet.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/10/08/first-signs-of-all-o...

Two 21yo girls decided they didn't want buy a bag so took the metal basket with them. What on gods earth made them think that was acceptable, I have no idea.

The saddest thing... is that because they filmed security trying to get their metal basket and they were dippy young girls back and got compensation!!

So, crime may not pay.
But, being a bit of a dippy moron, obviously does.