Are men afraid of transgender women?

[p2c]

This is also why Dr P McHugh is so dangerous. He uses his position at Johns Hopkins and Psychologist credentials for hire to pedal the American religious conservative agenda. His views are at odds with the medical community and the evidence, yet he offers hope to parents and relatives who are desperate for another way, a way to be "normal".

He offers nothing by way of credible alternative to the established treatment, his opinion misrepresents the facts and grasping at the straws he offers will lead to nothing but despair for any trans person.

[mike9009]

Justayellowbadge said:

p2c said:

I am not saying your child is gender non conforming, not even close, but "when will i grow a beard" for a 3yr old girl is a red flag.

Wow.

Quite.

[p2c]

mike9009 said:

Justayellowbadge said:

p2c said:

I am not saying your child is gender non conforming, not even close, but "when will i grow a beard" for a 3yr old girl is a red flag.

Wow.

Quite.

JYB given your previous form i'm guessing that isn't a positive comment. But here's the thing, being transgender is a real thing. I put so many caveats onto my comments that it may be nothing, but to some people it is something, and its not always someone else, and even so that someone else has to be someones child. If it is AJS's then with his displayed attitude to trans issues it could be anything from nothing to dead child. To me that isn't something to be taken lightly. Cautious open loving environment without prejudice can not do any harm. The tiniest bit of negative trans attitude though could be disastrous if it isn't nothing.

I'm far far from advocating anything more than be careful so don't quote me out of context.

[Justayellowbadge]

How is highlighting an entire sentence, unedited, exactly as typed, directly beneath your entire post, in any way taking things out of context?

I neither added or removed any, it was simply your words.


You took a description of an utterly normal 3 year old and described it as 'gender non-conformity' and warned against it leading to a 'dark path'.

Something of a leap, and, ironically, just the kind of premature, confirmation bias driven thinking that AJS seemed to be questioning.

[irocfan]

interestingly IIRC a lot of social scientists want to do away with "... pink for girls, blue for boys..." and "... separate boys and girls toys and toy areas..." and yet when it suits the fact some youngsters want to play with toys meant for the opposite sex it's a sign of gender fluidity?? WOW

[mph1977]

irocfan said:

interestingly IIRC a lot of social scientists want to do away with "... pink for girls, blue for boys..." and "... separate boys and girls toys and toy areas..." and yet when it suits the fact some youngsters want to play with toys meant for the opposite sex it's a sign of gender fluidity?? WOW

conveniently ignoring the societal / peer pressure dimensions that seek to re-inforce a cisgender heteronormative view of what is the 'correct' behaviour for people ...

[otolith]

AJS- said:

From entirely personal experience, maybe I'm fortunate but I can't remember gender really figuring much until I was around 12 or 13 beyond a vague awareness of Mum, Dad and people somewhat similar to them. t `age.

I bet you had absolutely no doubt in your mind that you were a boy, though.

To be honest, I think the reality of transgendered people gives the lie to the PC attitude that boys and girls are not intrinsically psychologically different and that gender stereotypical behaviour is all derived from the expectations of their parents. I use the word advisedly, because I realise that it may cause offence, but it seems to me that being born with a feminised brain in a male body or vice-versa is essentially a birth defect. You can't fix the brain, the best you are going to be able to do is to modify the body to superficially resemble the same sex as the brain. There's no solution which will entirely fix the problem.

AJS- said:

So no, I don't have a very strong idea about what treatment should be offered or when. I just do have a very strong aversion to such drastic and life altering treatment in someone so young.

I think indulging the fantasy that you can be of the opposite sex if you choose is storing up problems, because the reality is you can not, in a physical sense.

It seems that research is all directed towards physical reassignment and the consequences of that, and very little or none is directed towards how people can come to accept their birth gender. I could be wrong on this?

Is that because you believe that they would be happier that way, or because you would be happier with them that way?

[mike9009]

p2c said:

mike9009 said:

Justayellowbadge said:

p2c said:

I am not saying your child is gender non conforming, not even close, but "when will i grow a beard" for a 3yr old girl is a red flag.

Wow.

Quite.

JYB given your previous form i'm guessing that isn't a positive comment. But here's the thing, being transgender is a real thing. I put so many caveats onto my comments that it may be nothing, but to some people it is something, and its not always someone else, and even so that someone else has to be someones child. If it is AJS's then with his displayed attitude to trans issues it could be anything from nothing to dead child. To me that isn't something to be taken lightly. Cautious open loving environment without prejudice can not do any harm. The tiniest bit of negative trans attitude though could be disastrous if it isn't nothing.

I'm far far from advocating anything more than be careful so don't quote me out of context.

How should the parents of a three year old react to this 'red flag'? Quite incredible!

[Snoggledog]

Perhaps someone should invite Nolar dog to post......

[otolith]

mike9009 said:

How should the parents of a three year old react to this 'red flag'? Quite incredible!

"Never, you will only ever get a moustache like your mother's" would almost be worth the ensuing stay in the doghouse.

[p2c]

Justayellowbadge said:

How is highlighting an entire sentence, unedited, exactly as typed, directly beneath your entire post, in any way taking things out of context?

mike9009 said:

p2c said:

mike9009 said:

Justayellowbadge said:

p2c said:

I am not saying your child is gender non conforming, not even close, but "when will i grow a beard" for a 3yr old girl is a red flag.

Wow.

Quite.

JYB given your previous form i'm guessing that isn't a positive comment. But here's the thing, being transgender is a real thing. I put so many caveats onto my comments that it may be nothing, but to some people it is something, and its not always someone else, and even so that someone else has to be someones child. If it is AJS's then with his displayed attitude to trans issues it could be anything from nothing to dead child. To me that isn't something to be taken lightly. Cautious open loving environment without prejudice can not do any harm. The tiniest bit of negative trans attitude though could be disastrous if it isn't nothing.

I'm far far from advocating anything more than be careful so don't quote me out of context.

How should the parents of a three year old react to this 'red flag'? Quite incredible!

Well that information was in the complete post immediately above the quote i protested was out of context. I suppose i should have protested its incompleteness rather than context. But that post is now halfway up the page from where this one line is being quoted

[ofcorsa]

Well 4 year old wants to be Tractor. I reckon that will be a Deere job.

[p2c]

ofcorsa said:

Well 4 year old wants to be Tractor. I reckon that will be a Deere job.

Thats ok, it would be a green flag, Buy him this dress and he will turn out just fine.

[mike9009]

p2c said:

Justayellowbadge said:

How is highlighting an entire sentence, unedited, exactly as typed, directly beneath your entire post, in any way taking things out of context?

mike9009 said:

p2c said:

mike9009 said:

Justayellowbadge said:

p2c said:

I am not saying your child is gender non conforming, not even close, but "when will i grow a beard" for a 3yr old girl is a red flag.

Wow.

Quite.

JYB given your previous form i'm guessing that isn't a positive comment. But here's the thing, being transgender is a real thing. I put so many caveats onto my comments that it may be nothing, but to some people it is something, and its not always someone else, and even so that someone else has to be someones child. If it is AJS's then with his displayed attitude to trans issues it could be anything from nothing to dead child. To me that isn't something to be taken lightly. Cautious open loving environment without prejudice can not do any harm. The tiniest bit of negative trans attitude though could be disastrous if it isn't nothing.

I'm far far from advocating anything more than be careful so don't quote me out of context.

How should the parents of a three year old react to this 'red flag'? Quite incredible!

Well that information was in the complete post immediately above the quote i protested was out of context. I suppose i should have protested its incompleteness rather than context. But that post is now halfway up the page from where this one line is being quoted

You advise that if it 'persists' or 'escalates' then you should get help? For a three year old???

I agree about being supportive and unbiased. But to treat a three year old differently because they want a beard is extreme and likely to cause more issues than it solves. Being a child is about learning, developing and growing independence. A parent should support this exploratory stage.

[davepoth]

mike9009 said:

How should the parents of a three year old react to this 'red flag'? Quite incredible!

The idea here is to not suggest to the child that the concept of her having face hair is stupid/wrong, just in case. As was mentioned, it's highly unlikely that the child will have a gender identity issue but you'd feel a right berk if an apparently innocuous comment to a child at a young age did make them feel like their life isn't worth living.

p2c's comment above might have made it sound a little more dramatic than it probably is. At best, the flag is very small and probably barely yellow, but the slight possibility should at least be borne in mind.

[p2c]

mike9009 said:

p2c said:

Justayellowbadge said:

How is highlighting an entire sentence, unedited, exactly as typed, directly beneath your entire post, in any way taking things out of context?

mike9009 said:

p2c said:

mike9009 said:

Justayellowbadge said:

p2c said:

I am not saying your child is gender non conforming, not even close, but "when will i grow a beard" for a 3yr old girl is a red flag.

Wow.

Quite.

JYB given your previous form i'm guessing that isn't a positive comment. But here's the thing, being transgender is a real thing. I put so many caveats onto my comments that it may be nothing, but to some people it is something, and its not always someone else, and even so that someone else has to be someones child. If it is AJS's then with his displayed attitude to trans issues it could be anything from nothing to dead child. To me that isn't something to be taken lightly. Cautious open loving environment without prejudice can not do any harm. The tiniest bit of negative trans attitude though could be disastrous if it isn't nothing.

I'm far far from advocating anything more than be careful so don't quote me out of context.

How should the parents of a three year old react to this 'red flag'? Quite incredible!

Well that information was in the complete post immediately above the quote i protested was out of context. I suppose i should have protested its incompleteness rather than context. But that post is now halfway up the page from where this one line is being quoted

You advise that if it 'persists' or 'escalates' then you should get help? For a three year old???

I agree about being supportive and unbiased. But to treat a three year old differently because they want a beard is extreme and likely to cause more issues than it solves. Being a child is about learning, developing and growing independence. A parent should support this exploratory stage.

Persisting and escalating would both by definition require a passage of time. I made no reference to the time frame to get help. the main message was to not give a transphobic environment which AJS had demonstrated on here and to get help on the very small chance it is more than, learning, developing and growing independence.

[p2c]

davepoth said:

p2c's comment above might have made it sound a little more dramatic than it probably is. At best, the flag is very small and probably barely yellow, but the slight possibility should at least be borne in mind.

Ok, I apologize for being a drama queen, i came from a position of having waved the yellow flag, the yellow one is a pretty easy flag to ignore and dismiss though.

[mike9009]

p2c said:

the main message was to not give a transphobic environment

Agreed

p2c said:

.....to get help on the very small chance it is more than, learning, developing and growing independence.

Disagreed

[HarryW]

Christ on a bike, how the fk have we come from blokes worrying about trapping a sex swap on a date to worrying about 3 year old girl asking about growing a beard...........PH never ceases to amaze me.

[southendpier]

HarryW said:

Christ on a bike, how the fk have we come from blokes worrying about trapping a sex swap on a date to worrying about 3 year old girl asking about growing a beard...........PH never ceases to amaze me.

You have to be very careful with toddlers these days, beards or not. They're very tricky.