Are men afraid of transgender women?
Discussion
mph1977 said:
TTwiggy said:
<snip>. I guess we all have our 'inclusivity' limits and I just feel that mine are being tested by this. The tipping point for me was seeing Germaine Greer labelled a misogynist.
Greer is just an irrelevant dinosaur now, 2nd wave feminism which held some relevance in the 1960s and 1970s ( the era of 'Mad men' etc ) is irrelevant now, so to gain the oxygen of publicity she says ever more ridiculous things... the 'real woman only' exclusionary rad fems seem to forget that a notable propertion of 'real women' are absent one or more parts of the female reporductive system or otherwise unable to carry a baby to term - so does that make these unfortunate woman 'fake ' as well ...
TTwiggy said:
The comedian I mentioned is very much a 'current' feminist. How do you feel about her exclusion from a forum for the reason I gave?
I don't think we know enough about the situation you describe to pass judgement on what may have been appropriate, however education may have been better than exclusion, but again we don't know what happened and in what context.alock said:
When my daughter was 4, she wanted to be a fairy. If she couldn't be a fairy then she wanted to be a kangaroo.
I dread to think how emotionally messed up she would now be if any of these thoughts had been taken seriously by her family, teachers and doctor.
so because your daughter didn't have gender dysphoria no children have gender dysphoria ?I dread to think how emotionally messed up she would now be if any of these thoughts had been taken seriously by her family, teachers and doctor.
ETA - see p2C's comment below regarding reinforcement ...
alock said:
When my daughter was 4, she wanted to be a fairy. If she couldn't be a fairy then she wanted to be a kangaroo.
I dread to think how emotionally messed up she would now be if any of these thoughts had been taken seriously by her family, teachers and doctor.
How did you deal with her wanting to be a fairy? Did you allow her to put on fairy wings and play it out or did you snatch them off her telling her she wasn't a fairy and should never say such a thing again. Was her fairy or kangaroo identity consistent and persistent over s significant period of time, I'm guessing not as she didn't grow up to be either. Both are requirements for diagnosing gender dysphoria in children though. I dread to think how emotionally messed up she would now be if any of these thoughts had been taken seriously by her family, teachers and doctor.
p2c said:
RottenIcons said:
Dysphoria is profound, but what you describe is really a confidence issue mixed with a feeling of what we used to call 'ennui' or listlessness. Confidence, or rather, the lack of it, in a persons sexuality/appeal/attractiveness is rife in all youth, it is why 'sexting' is so prevalent, it grows into the 'Does my bum look big in this' later on too.
That state of mind that can be played upon by the disingenuous and parasitic and any/all such people found playing on that entirely natural emotion in the young are child abusers of a certain type. It may be 'hearts desire' where the person parasitising wants themselves to prove that their own issues are quite normal, there are other similar reasons but they are just excuses, it remains abuse whatever the thinking behind it.
Firstly you seem to be conflating sexuality with gender identity, they are not the same thing, so whilst sex(the act) attractiveness and attraction are completely inappropriate at the ages we are discussing and that yes sexting is far to prevalent and a symptom of unregulated internet access and somewhat bad parenting, gender identify is completely different and relates to ones sense of self, who you are and is understood by the youngest of children, a three year old will know if they are a boy or a girl and they have a mommy and daddy sister or brother, they will know the males in their family are different to the females, what they wont know is what that means in a sexual context and that's how it should be.That state of mind that can be played upon by the disingenuous and parasitic and any/all such people found playing on that entirely natural emotion in the young are child abusers of a certain type. It may be 'hearts desire' where the person parasitising wants themselves to prove that their own issues are quite normal, there are other similar reasons but they are just excuses, it remains abuse whatever the thinking behind it.
As for the abuse, firstly we are talking about children that self identify, parents who force children into a gender role against a child's identity (aka David Rimmer) would be abusive, the same though could be said of parents that force the trans child to conform to anatomical sex. There is plenty of real evidence out there of negative outcomes of this situation and some if that is mentioned in the study I posted as it was the reason for the study focusing on trans children who were supported and transitioned at a young age without denial or enforced conformance.
That study showed that supporting trans children resulted in positive outcomes and normal levels of depression and anxiety, conversely previous studies have shown denial of gender identity is detrimental and the suicide statistics back that up. Now to me that suggests the parent who is forcing conformance or is unaccepting of a trans child's identity is the abuser and those that advocate such a position are the predators
Mithering parents, an overtly perverted/sexualised media and the sheer prevalence of one or the other in combination will engender navel gazing and worrisome thoughts in an immature mind. The entire 'self-identify' issue is again not a sudden awareness but an engendered result of the above and once someone like me points this out it becomes glaringly obvious to anyone with a moral compass.
Positive outcomes, even the words themselves are puke inducing and what's worse disingenuous, who judges these positive outcomes? If turning a child into a self-questioning partial hermaphrodite or worse is a 'positive outcome' then damn it I don't want that sort of positive anywhere near me or my kids, thanks.
RottenIcons said:
<snip>
Positive outcomes, even the words themselves are puke inducing and what's worse disingenuous, who judges these positive outcomes? If turning a child into a self-questioning partial hermaphrodite or worse is a 'positive outcome' then damn it I don't want that sort of positive anywhere near me or my kids, thanks.
Negative outcomes with regard to gender identity are often measured in pine boxes or the number of candles at TDoR ... occasionally they are measured in 'straitjackets' and life changing physical injuries ...Positive outcomes, even the words themselves are puke inducing and what's worse disingenuous, who judges these positive outcomes? If turning a child into a self-questioning partial hermaphrodite or worse is a 'positive outcome' then damn it I don't want that sort of positive anywhere near me or my kids, thanks.
Edited by mph1977 on Thursday 21st April 12:42
mph1977 said:
RottenIcons said:
<snip>
Positive outcomes, even the words themselves are puke inducing and what's worse disingenuous, who judges these positive outcomes? If turning a child into a self-questioning partial hermaphrodite or worse is a 'positive outcome' then damn it I don't want that sort of positive anywhere near me or my kids, thanks.
negative outcomes with regard to gender identity are often measured in pine boxes or the number of cnaldes at TDoR ... occasionally they are measured in 'straitjackets' and life changing physical injuries ...Positive outcomes, even the words themselves are puke inducing and what's worse disingenuous, who judges these positive outcomes? If turning a child into a self-questioning partial hermaphrodite or worse is a 'positive outcome' then damn it I don't want that sort of positive anywhere near me or my kids, thanks.
You see before the filthy minded came on the scene such boxes built for these poor souls were few and far between, now, courtesy of filth and wierdos there are more of them than there ever were.
So tell me pilgrim, what can we all conclude from that fact of life?
RottenIcons said:
mph1977 said:
RottenIcons said:
<snip>
Positive outcomes, even the words themselves are puke inducing and what's worse disingenuous, who judges these positive outcomes? If turning a child into a self-questioning partial hermaphrodite or worse is a 'positive outcome' then damn it I don't want that sort of positive anywhere near me or my kids, thanks.
negative outcomes with regard to gender identity are often measured in pine boxes or the number of cnaldes at TDoR ... occasionally they are measured in 'straitjackets' and life changing physical injuries ...Positive outcomes, even the words themselves are puke inducing and what's worse disingenuous, who judges these positive outcomes? If turning a child into a self-questioning partial hermaphrodite or worse is a 'positive outcome' then damn it I don't want that sort of positive anywhere near me or my kids, thanks.
You see before the filthy minded came on the scene such boxes built for these poor souls were few and far between, now, courtesy of filth and wierdos there are more of them than there ever were.
So tell me pilgrim, what can we all conclude from that fact of life?
So saying there wasn't a problem before is not true, its just many many people are/were being buried with no one knowing the real reasons they took their own life.
mph1977 said:
WinstonWolf said:
<snip>
Icons is correct, forcing four olds to consider questions of gender is akin to child abuse.
Unless it's adhering to heterosexual cisgender norms ? as this is overwhelmingly not the position adopted by those claiming openess and acceptance of all should be the default position ... Icons is correct, forcing four olds to consider questions of gender is akin to child abuse.
funny how in that world young people are never 'too young' to 'decide' that they are heterosexual and their gender identity is congruent with their genitals ...
Edited by mph1977 on Thursday 21st April 11:25
p2c said:
How did you deal with her wanting to be a fairy? Did you allow her to put on fairy wings and play it out or did you snatch them off her telling her she wasn't a fairy and should never say such a thing again. Was her fairy or kangaroo identity consistent and persistent over s significant period of time, I'm guessing not as she didn't grow up to be either. Both are requirements for diagnosing gender dysphoria in children though.
Maybe you thought I was making a different point. I was commenting on the story of asking 4 year old's what gender they are. I'm saying it would be just as stupid for a school to ask EVERY child if they want to be a fairy or a kangaroo.How a parent reacts to a child who proactively does something atypical is an entirely different point.
p2c said:
Awareness. I firmly believe many suicides are due to trans issues but are never expressed and no one knows the real reason for the suicide. Indeed for many years no one would have suspected trans issues had I ended my life, Nobody I came out to had the slightest clue about my trans identity.
So saying there wasn't a problem before is not true, its just many many people are/were being buried with no one knowing the real reasons they took their own life.
SpeechlessSo saying there wasn't a problem before is not true, its just many many people are/were being buried with no one knowing the real reasons they took their own life.
Oakey said:
p2c said:
Awareness. I firmly believe many suicides are due to trans issues but are never expressed and no one knows the real reason for the suicide. Indeed for many years no one would have suspected trans issues had I ended my life, Nobody I came out to had the slightest clue about my trans identity.
So saying there wasn't a problem before is not true, its just many many people are/were being buried with no one knowing the real reasons they took their own life.
SpeechlessSo saying there wasn't a problem before is not true, its just many many people are/were being buried with no one knowing the real reasons they took their own life.
s wanting to work in a gym (does this happen). You cant force people to except you you can just legisslate so they dont bar your from attempting to join there group etcOakey said:
p2c said:
Awareness. I firmly believe many suicides are due to trans issues but are never expressed and no one knows the real reason for the suicide. Indeed for many years no one would have suspected trans issues had I ended my life, Nobody I came out to had the slightest clue about my trans identity.
So saying there wasn't a problem before is not true, its just many many people are/were being buried with no one knowing the real reasons they took their own life.
SpeechlessSo saying there wasn't a problem before is not true, its just many many people are/were being buried with no one knowing the real reasons they took their own life.
alock said:
p2c said:
How did you deal with her wanting to be a fairy? Did you allow her to put on fairy wings and play it out or did you snatch them off her telling her she wasn't a fairy and should never say such a thing again. Was her fairy or kangaroo identity consistent and persistent over s significant period of time, I'm guessing not as she didn't grow up to be either. Both are requirements for diagnosing gender dysphoria in children though.
Maybe you thought I was making a different point. I was commenting on the story of asking 4 year old's what gender they are. I'm saying it would be just as stupid for a school to ask EVERY child if they want to be a fairy or a kangaroo.How a parent reacts to a child who proactively does something atypical is an entirely different point.
this is priceless, keep it comin'! p2c said:
alock said:
p2c said:
How did you deal with her wanting to be a fairy? Did you allow her to put on fairy wings and play it out or did you snatch them off her telling her she wasn't a fairy and should never say such a thing again. Was her fairy or kangaroo identity consistent and persistent over s significant period of time, I'm guessing not as she didn't grow up to be either. Both are requirements for diagnosing gender dysphoria in children though.
Maybe you thought I was making a different point. I was commenting on the story of asking 4 year old's what gender they are. I'm saying it would be just as stupid for a school to ask EVERY child if they want to be a fairy or a kangaroo.How a parent reacts to a child who proactively does something atypical is an entirely different point.
Please don't tell me people believe this guff?
HRL said:
37 pages? WTF has happened to PH.
What is it with some people trying to persuade the majority that transgender is normal. There's nothing wrong with it but it's not fking normal, is it.
That's the problem, they don't like to think they're not considered 'normal'. Rather than just accepting who they are and getting on with their life they want to argue the toss with the rest of us trying to convince us this is a much bigger deal. From what I've seen on various forums a lot of trans people come across as very angry and bitter, on another forum a trans member used to sWhat is it with some people trying to persuade the majority that transgender is normal. There's nothing wrong with it but it's not f
king normal, is it.t up the movies thread regularly because everything offended them; "The new X Files had a trans character that was a prostitute, that's such a negative portrayal of trans people, the producers should be so fking ashamed of their transphobic attitude blah fking blah"Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff