Are men afraid of transgender women?

[Halb]

otolith said:

Indeed. But that's entirely consistent with the possibility that a birth defect can leave you with a masculinised brain in a feminised body, and vice-versa. The idea that being psychologically a boy or a girl is entirely something that you are taught by society based on the sort of genitalia you have is the thing that's inconsistent with the evidence of other species.

Nicely phrased.

[irocfan]

p2c said:

irocfan said:

p2c said:

TTwiggy said:

The comedian I mentioned is very much a 'current' feminist. How do you feel about her exclusion from a forum for the reason I gave?

I don't think we know enough about the situation you describe to pass judgement on what may have been appropriate, however education may have been better than exclusion, but again we don't know what happened and in what context.

fk me rigid it is communism re-born! Let's send them for re-education until they toe the party line. What utter, utter bks.... are maybe not if that is offensive

irrational over reaction much! explains you attitude to new concepts though.

not at all - do I like TG people? No. Do I dislike TG people? No. At the end of the day they're people. Some will be nice people, others will be aholes and all points inbetween. Would I treat a TG person differently? Honestly I don't know it depends on the context. If they were trying to tell me that my child or grandchild shouldn't be labelled 'boy' or 'girl' but one of 69 different flavours then they can fk right off (mind you in fairness that also applies to SJW types too.) If they're going to spout off some st about being cisnormative or acting like a bell-end in that manner again they can feel free to fk right off. If they're chatting to me about cars/rugby/films etc etc then we've got no issue as long as they're not being a bellend about it (and that would apply to normal people too - and for the avoidance of doubt 'normal' in this case refers to something outside the norm)

[mph1977]

irocfan said:

p2c said:

irocfan said:

p2c said:

TTwiggy said:

The comedian I mentioned is very much a 'current' feminist. How do you feel about her exclusion from a forum for the reason I gave?

I don't think we know enough about the situation you describe to pass judgement on what may have been appropriate, however education may have been better than exclusion, but again we don't know what happened and in what context.

fk me rigid it is communism re-born! Let's send them for re-education until they toe the party line. What utter, utter bks.... are maybe not if that is offensive

irrational over reaction much! explains you attitude to new concepts though.

not at all - do I like TG people? No. Do I dislike TG people? No. At the end of the day they're people. Some will be nice people, others will be aholes and all points inbetween. Would I treat a TG person differently? Honestly I don't know it depends on the context. If they were trying to tell me that my child or grandchild shouldn't be labelled 'boy' or 'girl' but one of 69 different flavours then they can fk right off (mind you in fairness that also applies to SJW types too.) If they're going to spout off some st about being cisnormative or acting like a bell-end in that manner again they can feel free to fk right off. If they're chatting to me about cars/rugby/films etc etc then we've got no issue as long as they're not being a bellend about it (and that would apply to normal people too - and for the avoidance of doubt 'normal' in this case refers to something outside the norm)

so what aobut if you are trying to impose your view on others ?

what about if your child / grandchild / niece / nephew made a disclosure that they were unsure of their gender identity ?

as this seems to be he sticking point that so many of those who views and behaviours are , rightly being called out on , do not wish to recognise ...

hence comments about how it's odd that people are never too young to 'decide' they are heterosexual or that their gender identity concurs with their genitalia ...

then there;s those who wish to trivialise these things and not only do they display ignorance of how gender dysphoria can present in young people ( especially pre-pubescent children) - which fair enough they don;t have lived experience of , but then they start calling people who do have lived experience as as transperson themselves as a family member or as a health or education professional who has dealt with these issues sexual predators it is ridiculous, it;s also pointless to point out to these wilfully ignorant people that most child abuse of all forms takes place in the home and/or by people very well known to the child such as family members , 'family firends' or religious leaders , not by strangers, not by health professionals or social care professionals the child may see infrequently ....

[WinstonWolf]

mph1977 said:

irocfan said:

p2c said:

irocfan said:

p2c said:

TTwiggy said:

The comedian I mentioned is very much a 'current' feminist. How do you feel about her exclusion from a forum for the reason I gave?

I don't think we know enough about the situation you describe to pass judgement on what may have been appropriate, however education may have been better than exclusion, but again we don't know what happened and in what context.

fk me rigid it is communism re-born! Let's send them for re-education until they toe the party line. What utter, utter bks.... are maybe not if that is offensive

irrational over reaction much! explains you attitude to new concepts though.

not at all - do I like TG people? No. Do I dislike TG people? No. At the end of the day they're people. Some will be nice people, others will be aholes and all points inbetween. Would I treat a TG person differently? Honestly I don't know it depends on the context. If they were trying to tell me that my child or grandchild shouldn't be labelled 'boy' or 'girl' but one of 69 different flavours then they can fk right off (mind you in fairness that also applies to SJW types too.) If they're going to spout off some st about being cisnormative or acting like a bell-end in that manner again they can feel free to fk right off. If they're chatting to me about cars/rugby/films etc etc then we've got no issue as long as they're not being a bellend about it (and that would apply to normal people too - and for the avoidance of doubt 'normal' in this case refers to something outside the norm)

so what aobut if you are trying to impose your view on others ?

what about if your child / grandchild / niece / nephew made a disclosure that they were unsure of their gender identity ?

as this seems to be he sticking point that so many of those who views and behaviours are , rightly being called out on , do not wish to recognise ...

hence comments about how it's odd that people are never too young to 'decide' they are heterosexual or that their gender identity concurs with their genitalia ...

then there;s those who wish to trivialise these things and not only do they display ignorance of how gender dysphoria can present in young people ( especially pre-pubescent children) - which fair enough they don;t have lived experience of , but then they start calling people who do have lived experience as as transperson themselves as a family member or as a health or education professional who has dealt with these issues sexual predators it is ridiculous, it;s also pointless to point out to these wilfully ignorant people that most child abuse of all forms takes place in the home and/or by people very well known to the child such as family members , 'family firends' or religious leaders , not by strangers, not by health professionals or social care professionals the child may see infrequently ....

Niece, nephew? You heartless sexist bd, can't you come up with a non gender specific pronoun?

[p2c]

mph1977 said:

irocfan said:

p2c said:

irocfan said:

p2c said:

TTwiggy said:

The comedian I mentioned is very much a 'current' feminist. How do you feel about her exclusion from a forum for the reason I gave?

I don't think we know enough about the situation you describe to pass judgement on what may have been appropriate, however education may have been better than exclusion, but again we don't know what happened and in what context.

fk me rigid it is communism re-born! Let's send them for re-education until they toe the party line. What utter, utter bks.... are maybe not if that is offensive

irrational over reaction much! explains you attitude to new concepts though.

not at all - do I like TG people? No. Do I dislike TG people? No. At the end of the day they're people. Some will be nice people, others will be aholes and all points inbetween. Would I treat a TG person differently? Honestly I don't know it depends on the context. If they were trying to tell me that my child or grandchild shouldn't be labelled 'boy' or 'girl' but one of 69 different flavours then they can fk right off (mind you in fairness that also applies to SJW types too.) If they're going to spout off some st about being cisnormative or acting like a bell-end in that manner again they can feel free to fk right off. If they're chatting to me about cars/rugby/films etc etc then we've got no issue as long as they're not being a bellend about it (and that would apply to normal people too - and for the avoidance of doubt 'normal' in this case refers to something outside the norm)

so what aobut if you are trying to impose your view on others ?

what about if your child / grandchild / niece / nephew made a disclosure that they were unsure of their gender identity ?

as this seems to be he sticking point that so many of those who views and behaviours are , rightly being called out on , do not wish to recognise ...

hence comments about how it's odd that people are never too young to 'decide' they are heterosexual or that their gender identity concurs with their genitalia ...

then there;s those who wish to trivialise these things and not only do they display ignorance of how gender dysphoria can present in young people ( especially pre-pubescent children) - which fair enough they don;t have lived experience of , but then they start calling people who do have lived experience as as transperson themselves as a family member or as a health or education professional who has dealt with these issues sexual predators it is ridiculous, it;s also pointless to point out to these wilfully ignorant people that most child abuse of all forms takes place in the home and/or by people very well known to the child such as family members , 'family firends' or religious leaders , not by strangers, not by health professionals or social care professionals the child may see infrequently ....

Exactly. Nobody who is trans accepting tells anyone how to identify, what is promoted is being open and accepting of someone's right to identify themselves.

In addition to mph's points anyone who has that lived experience who allows a child to thrive in their self identified gender identity are labelled as child abusers as well, when the evidence is overwhelming that those people have the healthiest children and the ones who deny and force compliance of their child to birth sex, in effect being the ones doing the telling, are the ones with miserable depressed and suicidal kids, but that's apparently good parenting and not child abuse despite such outcomes in any other context would be child abuse. I see nobody has so far commented on the UofW research I posted despite BrabusMog promising to try to elevate himself from the lower levels of the debate triangle a few pages back

Edited by p2c on Friday 22 April 18:15

[Einion Yrth]

An' he spoke like that for forty-five minutes, an' nobody understood a word that he said, but we had fun fillin' out the forms and playin' with the pencils on the bench there.

[Gandahar]

Snails.

They are the big problem and they are both sexes.

As spring rolls on, once again the battle begins. Me v them.

Fascinating creatures though.

[Halb]

hedgehogs?

[Moonhawk]

So - after 38 pages........are we?

[jdw100]

Timmy40 said:

My observation, and it is just that, and nothing more. Is from my kids school. 99% of the kids are strongly gender aligned both physically and psychologically. There's one kid however who quite clearly isn't. This child looks like a boy, talks like a boy but is currently a 'girl'. In the school you have to be either a boy or a girl. The whole system is setup like that, you can't be a bit of both. Except this child clearly is.

I think you could bang on to the kids all day long month in month out about gender issues and at the end of it the same 99% would be definite boys or girls.

It's clearly not practical for the school ( given funding, resources etc ) to come up with a solution just for this child. But is it so bad to educate the children as a whole that there are some kids who don't fit into the category that most do?

Clearly this kid is going to struggle with their identity, so if a bit of general education for the whole class makes them feel more accepted and the class more tolerant of difference. What's the issue?

And anyone on here knows full well I'm not exactly the lilly handed liberal type. I'm currently busy trying to execute rabbits, build a house and run a business.

A very sensible response.

When I was at school (I'm now 48) there was a lot of homophobia. Having spoken to friends of the same age who are gay I've learnt how tough this was for them. One of my mates has known he is gay from about the age of six.

These days schools seem much better in teaching that not everybody is the same and it has created a much better environment. From what I understand from my nieces and nephews and friend's kids now being gay is just 'so what?'

There was a lot of campaigning, some of it quite militant, to get to this point - and the world is the better for it.

Some people are transgender -in some cultures (including parts of Indonesia) there is a recognised 3rd gender. Why not just recognise this fact and build it into our schools culture etc. If your kids aren't transgender (and 99% won't be) how does that really affect you...having a box that you don't need on a form....having your kids recieve a bit of education that not everyone confirms to the norm of being a totally straight man or woman..some people are not the gender they appear to be or which to change it..... not a big deal is it?

Edited by jdw100 on Saturday 23 April 07:46

[DocJock]

Alternatively, if true equality is the aim, should we not be working towards abolishing the concept of gender altogether?

What purpose does defining oneself by a label serve anyway? Why can't we all just be 'a person'?

[p2c]

DocJock said:

Alternatively, if true equality is the aim, should we not be working towards abolishing the concept of gender altogether?

What purpose does defining oneself by a label serve anyway? Why can't we all just be 'a person'?

Equality is not about abolishing variation, its about treating the variations equally.

[p2c]

jdw100 said:

A very sensible response.

When I was at school (I'm now 48) there was a lot of homophobia. Having spoken to friends of the same age who are gay I've learnt how tough this was for them. One of my mates has known he is gay from about the age of six.

These days schools seem much better in teaching that not everybody is the same and it has created a much better environment. From what I understand from my nieces and nephews and friend's kids now being gay is just 'so what?'

There was a lot of campaigning, some of it quite militant, to get to this point - and the world is the better for it.

Some people are transgender -in some cultures (including parts of Indonesia) there is a recognised 3rd gender. Why not just recognise this fact and build it into our schools culture etc. If your kids aren't transgender (and 99% won't be) how does that really affect you...having a box that you don't need on a form....having your kids recieve a bit of education that not everyone confirms to the norm of being a totally straight man or woman..some people are not the gender they appear to be or which to change it..... not a big deal is it?

Edited by jdw100 on Saturday 23 April 07:46

[Morningside]

BrabusMog said:

For all you bigots, here is a list of pronouns/genders/I don't even know

Bipolar junction transistor

That should be in the Geek Joke thread.

I feel more of a MOSFET really.

[irocfan]

jdw100 said:

A very sensible response.

When I was at school (I'm now 48) there was a lot of homophobia. Having spoken to friends of the same age who are gay I've learnt how tough this was for them. One of my mates has known he is gay from about the age of six.

These days schools seem much better in teaching that not everybody is the same and it has created a much better environment. From what I understand from my nieces and nephews and friend's kids now being gay is just 'so what?'

There was a lot of campaigning, some of it quite militant, to get to this point - and the world is the better for it.

Some people are transgender -in some cultures (including parts of Indonesia) there is a recognised 3rd gender. Why not just recognise this fact and build it into our schools culture etc. If your kids aren't transgender (and 99% won't be) how does that really affect you...having a box that you don't need on a form....having your kids recieve a bit of education that not everyone confirms to the norm of being a totally straight man or woman..some people are not the gender they appear to be or which to change it..... not a big deal is it?

Edited by jdw100 on Saturday 23 April 07:46

now you see that is a good reply. I may not agree with all of it BUT it is well written, doesn't resort to name calling, histrionics and doesn't beat people over the head with the whole SJW thing. At least one poster on this forum could learn from this, thank you JD

[jdw100]

irocfan said:

now you see that is a good reply. I may not agree with all of it BUT it is well written, doesn't resort to name calling, histrionics and doesn't beat people over the head with the whole SJW thing. At least one poster on this forum could learn from this, thank you JD

Blimey, thanks. Just seems the most humane, realistic and sensible response.

I can't see why anyone would want to do any different.

[DocJock]

p2c said:

DocJock said:

Alternatively, if true equality is the aim, should we not be working towards abolishing the concept of gender altogether?

What purpose does defining oneself by a label serve anyway? Why can't we all just be 'a person'?

Equality is not about abolishing variation, its about treating the variations equally.

With all due respect that is utter nonsense. Your 'variations' are artificial constructs to define and highlight differences between people which should be irrelevant if we are to truly treat all people equally.

For the sake of clarity, I include the traditional male and female in those artificial labels.

[Glasgowrob]

I like to consider myself quite open minded and accepting of everyone regardless of who or what they are,

But this baffles me

Maybe i am I actual fact a bloody dinosaur but in my eyes your either

Male
Female
Something in between

Gay
Straight
Bi

I am absolutely baffled by some of the stuff in this thread and whilst I want to be accepting of everyone's feelings and views I just get the impression this is something for the specialll little snowflake brigade who need to differentiate themselves from everyone else

[mph1977]

Morningside said:

BrabusMog said:

For all you bigots, here is a list of pronouns/genders/I don't even know

Bipolar junction transistor

That should be in the Geek Joke thread.

I feel more of a MOSFET really.

it is a geek joke, there's also some of the races /armies from games workshop table top gaming as well as the various electronic components ...

[BrabusMog]

mph1977 said:

Morningside said:

BrabusMog said:

For all you bigots, here is a list of pronouns/genders/I don't even know

Bipolar junction transistor

That should be in the Geek Joke thread.

I feel more of a MOSFET really.

it is a geek joke, there's also some of the races /armies from games workshop table top gaming as well as the various electronic components ...

I just did a Google image search for "preffered pronouns Tumblr" and this was the the picture I chose from the options. But there are only two true genders, so anything else is going to be open to piss taking.