Are men afraid of transgender women?
Discussion
FredClogs said:
popeyewhite said:
GroundEffect said:
And really, the differences between men and women are very small. And I know because I bat for both teams so unlike our armchair experts, I'm a seasoned pro 
they are the same to kiss, they smell the same. Only real difference is that women's skin is softer.
Some of the men I know but haven't had sex with are nothing like women. Biceps, sweat, tattoos, body hair, aggression, poor hygiene...and manners - now you mention it. From your description your taste in men comes down on the more effeminate type. they are the same to kiss, they smell the same. Only real difference is that women's skin is softer. 
FredClogs said:
I linked it partially because it's relative to the discussion but also in the hope that some people from around these parts who believe that you're either born x or y and the biology is entirely clear cut and irreversable might have pause for thought as to the uniqueness of each individual and utter mind blowing complexity of the human body.
The biology is entirely clear cut and irreversible, isn't it?! You're either XX or XY (or very rarely, something else). Nothing can ever change that. The only things that can be changed are your characteristics, but not the fundamental biology.
amusingduck said:
The biology is entirely clear cut and irreversible, isn't it?!
You're either XX or XY (or very rarely, something else). Nothing can ever change that. The only things that can be changed are your characteristics, but not the fundamental biology.
The fundamental biology and the genetics are not the same. Read about testicular feminisation syndrome.You're either XX or XY (or very rarely, something else). Nothing can ever change that. The only things that can be changed are your characteristics, but not the fundamental biology.
Explain to a twenty year old woman that she is male and see how far you get with your clear cut ideas.
k a daffodil thengrumbledoak said:
FredClogs said:
I linked it partially because it's relative to the discussion but also in the hope that some people from around these parts who believe that you're either born x or y and the biology is entirely clear cut and irreversable might have pause for thought as to the uniqueness of each individual and utter mind blowing complexity of the human body.
It is certainly related. But I'm not sure how it fits the given narrative. Hanne Gaby Odiele is protesting that she was made a transgender woman without her consent.There was also suggestions that the internal testes are a major cancer risk which is a different issue if true.
You're porbably aware of the case of David Reimer, but if you're not it's an example of just how badly these things can go...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
Some people are just not what their biology would indicate and forcing the issue so as to conform is so obviously dangerous... I think that's her main jist.
julian64 said:
amusingduck said:
The biology is entirely clear cut and irreversible, isn't it?!
You're either XX or XY (or very rarely, something else). Nothing can ever change that. The only things that can be changed are your characteristics, but not the fundamental biology.
The fundamental biology and the genetics are not the same. Read about testicular feminisation syndrome.You're either XX or XY (or very rarely, something else). Nothing can ever change that. The only things that can be changed are your characteristics, but not the fundamental biology.
Explain to a twenty year old woman that she is male and see how far you get with your clear cut ideas.
NHS said:
What causes AIS?
AIS is caused by a genetic fault that's usually passed on to a child by their mother.
This genetic fault means that, despite being genetically male, the body doesn't respond to testosterone (the male sex hormone) properly and male sexual development doesn't happen as normal.
This means the penis doesn't form or is underdeveloped. The child's genitals may appear female, or between male and female, but they don't have a womb or ovaries and have fully or partially undescended testicles.
Someone with testicular feminsation syndrome (which seems to be called AIS now) is biologically male, with female characteristics. AIS is caused by a genetic fault that's usually passed on to a child by their mother.
This genetic fault means that, despite being genetically male, the body doesn't respond to testosterone (the male sex hormone) properly and male sexual development doesn't happen as normal.
This means the penis doesn't form or is underdeveloped. The child's genitals may appear female, or between male and female, but they don't have a womb or ovaries and have fully or partially undescended testicles.
If anything you've only strengthened my point.
This thread makes me realise just how out of touch I am with the world I am.
Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Glasgowrob said:
This thread makes me realise just how out of touch I am with the world I am.
Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Your post is contradictory: in the same breath you state you have no issues with transgendered people, but then say you have serious issues with them using female toilets, suggesting that you worry that a transgendered person is some kind of child molester.Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Europa1 said:
Your post is contradictory: in the same breath you state you have no issues with transgendered people, but then say you have serious issues with them using female toilets, suggesting that you worry that a transgendered person is some kind of child molester.
Does that not just result from the confusion that has developed, there is a difference between the perception of transgender because of all the added "issums", some of which are easy to accept as a true " understandable need" whilst others seem to be born from a "sexual need/choice". ?Glasgowrob said:
This thread makes me realise just how out of touch I am with the world I am.
Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
I suspect there are easier ways of abusing kids than dressing as a women and hanging around public toilets.Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
If I was transgender I'd be a bit insulted by the assumption that it equates to an increased risk of predatory paedophilia, I mean is there actually any evidence of that?
amusingduck said:
Someone with testicular feminsation syndrome (which seems to be called AIS now) is biologically male, with female characteristics.
If anything you've only strengthened my point.
Really don't think you're thinking this through. Its not clear cut. You are simply waving the flag of genetics because it fits your didactic black/white thinking.If anything you've only strengthened my point.
but I don't think I'll convince you. Just google famous people with TFS and then decide what should retrospectively be done to them through no fault of their own. Decide what you want to do with a married woman who comes to see you for fertility advice and decide whether its meaningful to her the marriage for the last ten years is a sham and that she should start calling herself dave.
Just go a little further before you decide you have the answer.
Glasgowrob said:
This thread makes me realise just how out of touch I am with the world I am.
Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Your child uses bathrooms with non-women every day...Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Unless you have separate Gents and Ladies' toilets at home and at all your friend's houses
FredClogs said:
You're porbably aware of the case of David Reimer, but if you're not it's an example of just how badly these things can go...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
Yes, disgraceful from start to finish, and proving the exact opposite of the fashionable "it's all nurture" of the day. One in a long line of medical disgraces including blood letting, full frontal lobotomies(*) and electric shock therapy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
And medical fashion hasn't gone away - I think getting a curious surgeon to chop a working cock off to see what will happen will be looked back on in much the same way.
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/a-history-of-the-...
this guy basically drove around America with an Ice pick, mashing people's brains!
boyse7en said:
Glasgowrob said:
This thread makes me realise just how out of touch I am with the world I am.
Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Your child uses bathrooms with non-women every day...Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Unless you have separate Gents and Ladies' toilets at home and at all your friend's houses
irocfan said:
boyse7en said:
Glasgowrob said:
This thread makes me realise just how out of touch I am with the world I am.
Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Your child uses bathrooms with non-women every day...Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Unless you have separate Gents and Ladies' toilets at home and at all your friend's houses
More kids are molested and assaulted in their home than in public toilets, and the latter figure is only a fraction, to the point of being undetected when you restrict the public toilet predator to be transgender.
Bonus fact though is the most likely person to become a victim of crime in the public toilet is the trans person.
julian64 said:
amusingduck said:
Someone with testicular feminsation syndrome (which seems to be called AIS now) is biologically male, with female characteristics.
If anything you've only strengthened my point.
Really don't think you're thinking this through. Its not clear cut. You are simply waving the flag of genetics because it fits your didactic black/white thinking.If anything you've only strengthened my point.
but I don't think I'll convince you. Just google famous people with TFS and then decide what should retrospectively be done to them through no fault of their own. Decide what you want to do with a married woman who comes to see you for fertility advice and decide whether its meaningful to her the marriage for the last ten years is a sham and that she should start calling herself dave.
Just go a little further before you decide you have the answer.
The woman in your example is biologically male, is she not?
Did I say that makes her a bloke? Did I say that being biologically male precludes someone from being considered a woman?
grumbledoak said:
FredClogs said:
You're porbably aware of the case of David Reimer, but if you're not it's an example of just how badly these things can go...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
Yes, disgraceful from start to finish, and proving the exact opposite of the fashionable "it's all nurture" of the day. One in a long line of medical disgraces including blood letting, full frontal lobotomies(*) and electric shock therapy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
And medical fashion hasn't gone away - I think getting a curious surgeon to chop a working cock off to see what will happen will be looked back on in much the same way.
(Norwegian with subtitles, but well worth the effort IMO)
Hjernevask - Brainwashing (Eng Sub) Part 1 - The Gender Equality Paradox
Part 7 Deals with this very issue
Hjernevask - Brainwashing (Eng Sub) Part 7 - Nature vs Nurture
Note that the series aired on Norwegian television in 2010, and that many of the Norwegian 'experts' were still claiming 'Nurture' and flat refusing to accept the biological influences.
Ideology versus science.
p2c said:
irocfan said:
boyse7en said:
Glasgowrob said:
This thread makes me realise just how out of touch I am with the world I am.
Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Your child uses bathrooms with non-women every day...Anyone else utterly baffled with genders and isms?
On topic though I have no issues with transgendered people, each to their own and all but where I would have serious issues is with a non woman using the same bathroom as my daughter whilst she's still a child. You know that difficult age for dads where their old enough to go themselves but still young enough to worry about.
Unless you have separate Gents and Ladies' toilets at home and at all your friend's houses
You can not compare the single occupancy toilet in a home with a public toilet with 3+ cubicles.
It's totally different and I can't believe you don't see that.
The only time my daughter has ever used a toilet with any male present, is in my company when she was too young to 'go' unaccompanied.
I cannot of course speak for her adult life at university or in shared housing etc.
irocfan said:
there is a key difference there - I wonder if you can tell us what it is?
p2c said:
I'll have a go at answering that.
More kids are molested and assaulted in their home than in public toilets, and the latter figure is only a fraction, to the point of being undetected when you restrict the public toilet predator to be transgender.
Blatant deflection.More kids are molested and assaulted in their home than in public toilets, and the latter figure is only a fraction, to the point of being undetected when you restrict the public toilet predator to be transgender.
The point Glasgowrob is making, unless I am very greatly mistaken, is in allowing ones young daughter (on her own) to use the same toilet facilities in common with a transgender person who is biologically male.
Quite a lot of women will object to that too.
It is not suggesting that a transgender person is more likely to be a molester, simply that it is quite natural for people to equate male sex organs with maleness. Male behaviour is widely accepted as untrustworthy by the vast majority of the population, never mind those vociferously supporting transgender issues.
Why should the 'wearing of a dress' (pardon the crudeness) change that perception?
There needs to be tolerance and understanding on both sides of the discussion.
p2c said:
Bonus fact though is the most likely person to become a victim of crime in the public toilet is the trans person.
I wouldn't, even without evidence, be at all surprised at that. I can easily believe it, assuming one takes relative numbers of transgender versus non-transgender into account.Some people in our society are utterly vile. Education will only 'fix' some of them.
Edited quotes for clarity (I hope)
Edited by Goaty Bill 2 on Thursday 26th January 10:33
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