US Journalists Shot Dead On Air
Discussion
gavsdavs said:
creampuff said:
Almost half of households in the US have a gun and in the overwhelming majority of cases, they are used responsibly and safely.
Because I'm a dumb-ass brit you're going to have to help me here.Please explain what a gun is 'used for'. It's not like they have a secondary purpose like opening tins of paint or checking tyre pressures.
Do Americans just fire their guns because they want to ? You know, a bit like some of us smoke or drink ? Are they an 'addiction' ? What do they fire their guns at ?
- or -
Do Americans regularly find themselves having to to defend themselves from armed assailants coming to kill them and their families ?
- or -
Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
- or -
Do Americans have a firing range with targets in their back gardens and they're all secret competitive marksmen ? If not, why don't Americans clean up in all Olympic events involving shooting things ?
I'm afraid it doesn't wash. There isn't a 'responsible' use for a gun, unless you are police, or military. I don't think a firearm has a place in the hands of the general population in the 21st century. 1780s maybe, but we've come a long way since circling waggons and fighting off the commanche.
kING thousand? I don't see how anyone can argue it makes sense to have guns more freely available than treatment for mental health problems.WinstonWolf said:
Thirty thousand deaths this year, thirty fkING thousand? I don't see how anyone can argue it makes sense to have guns more freely available than treatment for mental health problems.
Who honestly cares if its 3000, 30000 or 300000 deaths per year?kING thousand? I don't see how anyone can argue it makes sense to have guns more freely available than treatment for mental health problems.It's a USA problem and they can work it out for themselves.
I ain't losing any sleep over it.
gavsdavs said:
Because I'm a dumb-ass brit you're going to have to help me here.
Please explain what a gun is 'used for'. It's not like they have a secondary purpose like opening tins of paint or checking tyre pressures.
Do Americans just fire their guns because they want to ? You know, a bit like some of us smoke or drink ? Are they an 'addiction' ? What do they fire their guns at ?
- or -
Do Americans regularly find themselves having to to defend themselves from armed assailants coming to kill them and their families ?
- or -
Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
- or -
Do Americans have a firing range with targets in their back gardens and they're all secret competitive marksmen ? If not, why don't Americans clean up in all Olympic events involving shooting things ?
I'm afraid it doesn't wash. There isn't a 'responsible' use for a gun, unless you are police, or military. I don't think a firearm has a place in the hands of the general population in the 21st century. 1780s maybe, but we've come a long way since circling waggons and fighting off the commanche.
Decent retort Please explain what a gun is 'used for'. It's not like they have a secondary purpose like opening tins of paint or checking tyre pressures.
Do Americans just fire their guns because they want to ? You know, a bit like some of us smoke or drink ? Are they an 'addiction' ? What do they fire their guns at ?
- or -
Do Americans regularly find themselves having to to defend themselves from armed assailants coming to kill them and their families ?
- or -
Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
- or -
Do Americans have a firing range with targets in their back gardens and they're all secret competitive marksmen ? If not, why don't Americans clean up in all Olympic events involving shooting things ?
I'm afraid it doesn't wash. There isn't a 'responsible' use for a gun, unless you are police, or military. I don't think a firearm has a place in the hands of the general population in the 21st century. 1780s maybe, but we've come a long way since circling waggons and fighting off the commanche.
gavsdavs said:
Because I'm a dumb-ass brit you're going to have to help me here.
Please explain what a gun is 'used for'. It's not like they have a secondary purpose like opening tins of paint or checking tyre pressures.
Do Americans just fire their guns because they want to ? You know, a bit like some of us smoke or drink ? Are they an 'addiction' ? What do they fire their guns at ?
- or -
Do Americans regularly find themselves having to to defend themselves from armed assailants coming to kill them and their families ?
- or -
Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
- or -
Do Americans have a firing range with targets in their back gardens and they're all secret competitive marksmen ? If not, why don't Americans clean up in all Olympic events involving shooting things ?
I'm afraid it doesn't wash. There isn't a 'responsible' use for a gun, unless you are police, or military. I don't think a firearm has a place in the hands of the general population in the 21st century. 1780s maybe, but we've come a long way since circling waggons and fighting off the commanche.
Your entire post is really dumb. Guns are sporting equipment. They are used for the same pointless purposes that bowling balls, tennis rackets, convertible cars, footballs, sport motorcycles, ultralight aircraft, horses, big binoculars for train spotting - and your own pointless post is used for: personal recreation and enjoyment. Please explain what a gun is 'used for'. It's not like they have a secondary purpose like opening tins of paint or checking tyre pressures.
Do Americans just fire their guns because they want to ? You know, a bit like some of us smoke or drink ? Are they an 'addiction' ? What do they fire their guns at ?
- or -
Do Americans regularly find themselves having to to defend themselves from armed assailants coming to kill them and their families ?
- or -
Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
- or -
Do Americans have a firing range with targets in their back gardens and they're all secret competitive marksmen ? If not, why don't Americans clean up in all Olympic events involving shooting things ?
I'm afraid it doesn't wash. There isn't a 'responsible' use for a gun, unless you are police, or military. I don't think a firearm has a place in the hands of the general population in the 21st century. 1780s maybe, but we've come a long way since circling waggons and fighting off the commanche.
The fact that you talk about shooting ranges in backyards just shows you don't know anything. You cannot set up a shooting range in your backyard in the United States, that would be illegal almost everywhere and you would soon find yourself in jail.
And since you think there is no "responsible" use for a gun, then perhaps you better go straight to your police station and then immediately write to the Home Secretary: because there are 1.8 millions guns in England and Wales.
Finally for Americans winning medals in Olympic sporting events, they do win a lot as you can see here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_meda...
Obvs they don't win them all as contrary to what you thing about guns having no legitimate recreational purpose, they are actually pretty easy to get in most countries if you have a legitimate sporting interest in shooting.
Erudite geezer said:
Who honestly cares if its 3000, 30000 or 300000 deaths per year?
It's a USA problem and they can work it out for themselves.
I ain't losing any sleep over it.
This.It's a USA problem and they can work it out for themselves.
I ain't losing any sleep over it.
When I went there in the mid 1990's ever new bulletin coming from Columbus Ohio had a report of a shooting whether it was people shooting each other or the police shooting people.
You only have to look at the death penalty to see how they treat killing people. I think it was Timothy Mcveigh that was being tries at the time and the bosses wife, early '40's mother, school teacher etc, shouted KILL HIM! with a big smile on her face when it came on the news. Shooting/killing people is the answer to most questions there.
creampuff said:
Your entire post is really dumb. Guns are sporting equipment. They are used for the same pointless purposes that bowling balls, tennis rackets, convertible cars, footballs, sport motorcycles, ultralight aircraft, horses, big binoculars for train spotting - and your own pointless post is used for: personal recreation and enjoyment.
The fact that you talk about shooting ranges in backyards just shows you don't know anything. You cannot set up a shooting range in your backyard in the United States, that would be illegal almost everywhere and you would soon find yourself in jail.
And since you think there is no "responsible" use for a gun, then perhaps you better go straight to your police station and then immediately write to the Home Secretary: because there are 1.8 millions guns in England and Wales.
Finally for Americans winning medals in Olympic sporting events, they do win a lot as you can see here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_meda...
Obvs they don't win them all as contrary to what you thing about guns having no legitimate recreational purpose, they are actually pretty easy to get in most countries if you have a legitimate sporting interest in shooting.
In a way, I'm diappointed you didn't spot my post as deliberately dumb. I'm trying to find out what it is in the American pysche which makes them cling to the concept of personal gun posession (as if their life depended on it).The fact that you talk about shooting ranges in backyards just shows you don't know anything. You cannot set up a shooting range in your backyard in the United States, that would be illegal almost everywhere and you would soon find yourself in jail.
And since you think there is no "responsible" use for a gun, then perhaps you better go straight to your police station and then immediately write to the Home Secretary: because there are 1.8 millions guns in England and Wales.
Finally for Americans winning medals in Olympic sporting events, they do win a lot as you can see here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_meda...
Obvs they don't win them all as contrary to what you thing about guns having no legitimate recreational purpose, they are actually pretty easy to get in most countries if you have a legitimate sporting interest in shooting.
I've done clay pigeon shooting, it's fantastic fun, very moorish. The sporting application of firearms is a good one, but i'd wager those who do it talk about security of the equipment being critical just as much as I do. So the "sporting case" - a secure venue with safes where the firearms are kept when not in use is a good thing. The firearms do not leave there.
There's a distinction between something that fires maximum 2 clots of buckshot with a broad spread and even a handgun firing 6 or more solid bullets. I know my terminology is poor, I do not 'know' guns, but the ammunition for each is designed to do very different things to the target.
What are the main reasons that drive Americans desire to own their own lethal weapon ?
I would like to begin with discount "because it's in the consitution" because it's the very thing I'm trying to discuss/see past.
I think I'd also like to discount "Self defence" - because if the world, his wife and 2 children didn't have access to guns then what are you defending yourself against ?
Similarly "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Massively specious argument, if all you had was a blunt pencil you can get pretty angry and not kill someone. If you got your hands on a knife you can hurt a few people but you have to get up close and risk them hurting you back.
I personally see the gun control subject as an american blindspot which is difficuly to understand as anything other than a selfish desire "to have your own one because you can", nurtured and protected by the NRA.
I appreciate you commenting on the subject, but I think there are Americans who would react better to you abducting their entire family than telling them they couldn't have their own gun.
Did you see this guy ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBOk1SnQ8uU
Pretty ballsy to say anti-gun things in the US, but then - it in was Boston. May not have got the same reception elsewhere.
gavsdavs said:
In a way, I'm diappointed you didn't spot my post as deliberately dumb. I'm trying to find out what it is in the American pysche which makes them cling to the concept of personal gun posession (as if their life depended on it).
I've done clay pigeon shooting, it's fantastic fun, very moorish. The sporting application of firearms is a good one, but i'd wager those who do it talk about security of the equipment being critical just as much as I do. So the "sporting case" - a secure venue with safes where the firearms are kept when not in use is a good thing. The firearms do not leave there.
There's a distinction between something that fires maximum 2 clots of buckshot with a broad spread and even a handgun firing 6 or more solid bullets. I know my terminology is poor, I do not 'know' guns, but the ammunition for each is designed to do very different things to the target.
What are the main reasons that drive Americans desire to own their own lethal weapon ?
I would like to begin with discount "because it's in the consitution" because it's the very thing I'm trying to discuss/see past.
I think I'd also like to discount "Self defence" - because if the world, his wife and 2 children didn't have access to guns then what are you defending yourself against ?
Similarly "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Massively specious argument, if all you had was a blunt pencil you can get pretty angry and not kill someone. If you got your hands on a knife you can hurt a few people but you have to get up close and risk them hurting you back.
I personally see the gun control subject as an american blindspot which is difficuly to understand as anything other than a selfish desire "to have your own one because you can", nurtured and protected by the NRA.
I appreciate you commenting on the subject, but I think there are Americans who would react better to you abducting their entire family than telling them they couldn't have their own gun.
Did you see this guy ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBOk1SnQ8uU
Pretty ballsy to say anti-gun things in the US, but then - it in was Boston. May not have got the same reception elsewhere.
Well a shotgun firing buckshot (actually you will normally fire birdshot in sporting use, which is a larger number of smaller pellets as opposed to buckshot which could be like 9 x .30 caliber handgun bullets coming your way) is a devastating weapon at short range if you were to shoot someone with it.I've done clay pigeon shooting, it's fantastic fun, very moorish. The sporting application of firearms is a good one, but i'd wager those who do it talk about security of the equipment being critical just as much as I do. So the "sporting case" - a secure venue with safes where the firearms are kept when not in use is a good thing. The firearms do not leave there.
There's a distinction between something that fires maximum 2 clots of buckshot with a broad spread and even a handgun firing 6 or more solid bullets. I know my terminology is poor, I do not 'know' guns, but the ammunition for each is designed to do very different things to the target.
What are the main reasons that drive Americans desire to own their own lethal weapon ?
I would like to begin with discount "because it's in the consitution" because it's the very thing I'm trying to discuss/see past.
I think I'd also like to discount "Self defence" - because if the world, his wife and 2 children didn't have access to guns then what are you defending yourself against ?
Similarly "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Massively specious argument, if all you had was a blunt pencil you can get pretty angry and not kill someone. If you got your hands on a knife you can hurt a few people but you have to get up close and risk them hurting you back.
I personally see the gun control subject as an american blindspot which is difficuly to understand as anything other than a selfish desire "to have your own one because you can", nurtured and protected by the NRA.
I appreciate you commenting on the subject, but I think there are Americans who would react better to you abducting their entire family than telling them they couldn't have their own gun.
Did you see this guy ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBOk1SnQ8uU
Pretty ballsy to say anti-gun things in the US, but then - it in was Boston. May not have got the same reception elsewhere.
This target I shot with 12 gauge birdshot from about 25 yards (the scattered pellets) and again from about 10 feet (the big holes).
- Just as an FYI, I don't normally shoot at humanoid targets with shotguns but I was at a rifle range in the above pic and thought I'd wrap it up with the shotgun before going to the clay target range.
Although a break action shotgun only holds two rounds, they are very fast to reload and you could do a lot of damage with one if you wanted... but that's the point, legitimate gun owners don't want to misuse their guns either here or in the US. With 200-million odd guns in the US, the number misused is pretty small.
For secure venues, by "secure venue" are you referring to a rifle/pistol/gun club or you mean a secure container in your house? There's no need to store guns in a club, even in the UK, you can store them at home in a gun safe. In the US (at least the states which I know about), there is no requirement to store them in a gun safe but there is a responsibility on the part of the owner that their gun not be misused. As I said before, there are some crackheads, criminals and general trailer park trash (the first two categories would not legally be allowed to have guns, the later category probably would) in the US who aren't careful with their guns and there are a number of accidental shootings as a result. But - the large majority of people do not fall into any of these categories and never have a mishap. The other purpose of guns in the US, other than sporting use, is self defence which in the US is a legitimate and legal reason to own a gun.
The majority of Americans probably think they don't know anybody who has had a mishap with a gun, have worked out that everyone who accidentally shoots themselves seems to be drunk/on drugs/trailer park trash rather than "normal" people and do know there are also criminals with guns who use them to commit crimes. So maybe they figure that guns are pretty safe for sporting/target practice use in the correct hands, you can shoot at paper targets or watermelons which is fun and in a SHTF situation, you can use them for defence. What's not to like?
That and they also believe in the constitutional right of the individual to bear arms
Eric Mc said:
Most Americans would say that responsible use of a gun is never to have to use it - and in most cases they never do.
It is very hard to get into the mindset of another nation and culture - and I wouldn't even dare to try to do so. However, if I was to take a stab at how most Americans look at why they might own a gun, I think it is best looked on as another form of insurance policy rather than a deadly weapon.
This is pretty much on the money, I feel. I'm not a US citizen (yet), but have lived in the USA for around 15 years. In FL where I live, firearm ownership is higher than national average. I suspect that is as a result of an historical hill-billy way of thinking and living, high proportion of older, white, right-wing retirees, who fear anyone not old, white or republican and due to a higher than average incidence of firearms related crime.It is very hard to get into the mindset of another nation and culture - and I wouldn't even dare to try to do so. However, if I was to take a stab at how most Americans look at why they might own a gun, I think it is best looked on as another form of insurance policy rather than a deadly weapon.
When I lived in the UK, the thought of firearm ownership never crossed my mind - I'd shot sporting clays a time or two with friends guns, but had no desire (or spare cash) to own a gun of my own.
My UK born daughter is a FL based Sheriffs Deputy and is also a tactical firearms specialist in the agency she's employed by. Some of her experiences in dealing with armed criminals lead me to exploring the possibility of owning my own firearm - coupled with some work I was doing, which involved visiting people in their homes to conduct medical market research. Most of the people I was interacting with on that project were diagnosed paranoid schizophrenics.
I own several firearms - a tactical pump shotgun and 3 handguns - one being my daughters ex service issue Glock 19, which has a sentimental value to me. I have a concealed carry permit and I exercise that privelige frequently. I'm not fearful of being attacked in the street or via an invasion of my home, but it does provide a Hail Mary level of insurance - if the unthinkable were to occur. I never felt I needed that additional layer of insurance during my life in the UK - but I wasn't surrounded by armed people in the UK. That's the difference. I probably don't need it here - and I probably don't need hurricane insurance either - but it's good to have it - just in case, if it's available, affordable and legal.
Maybe pertinent to add that there are no children in my household - I think the risk of potential harm to my kids might outweigh my desire to have a 'just-in-case' provision.
Edited by Matt Harper on Monday 31st August 02:22
creampuff said:
Oh the other thing is: most Americans where this has come up in conversation, and certainly all of my relos, genuinely can't believe that guns are so hard to get in the UK (shotguns excepted) and think we are crazy.
Crazy to have one of the lowest death rates in the world from firearms. creampuff said:
La Liga said:
If that were the solution, having a look at what the UK and Australia did in the 1990s would be a starting point.
Even less restrictive laws (i.e. restricting entire classes of guns) than the Australian laws in the US have already been found to be unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court. That won't work. The right to bear arms is in the constitution, the right to bear handguns has been affirmed by the supreme court. Alfa numeric said:
creampuff said:
walm said:
THE CONSTITUTION CAN BE AMENDED.
THERE'S LOADS OF AMENDMENTS.
27!
Sure, it's not easy. But isn't it worth trying? (Again?)
No amendment has ever cancelled a previous amendment.THERE'S LOADS OF AMENDMENTS.
27!
Sure, it's not easy. But isn't it worth trying? (Again?)
gavsdavs said:
Because I'm a dumb-ass brit you're going to have to help me here.
Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
From another dumb ass brit, you might be surprised.Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
http://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2015/08/22/fo...
I certainly wouldn't go camping here without a weapon.
Yes, I know your post was 'deliberately dumb', but there are compelling arguments for gun ownership in some areas, even for pistols or semi-automatic rifles.
First - with regards to the 'scaring off wild animals' case - has nobody heard of firecrackers ? And keeping foodstuffs/garbarge inside where bears can't work out how to get at them ? I have some canadian friends and they go to surprising lengths to remove/reduce the likelihood that a bear will come digging round their house looking for food they can smell.
Going to do a bit of selective quoting, hope you don't mind.
If you had your weapons behind several locks at your house and someone burst through your front door wanting stuff, having them locked in a safe in your basement is no use to you.
"What are the main reasons that drive Americans desire to own their own lethal weapon ?"
As an outside Americans appear to have an almost irrational desire to own a deadly weapon and they try and legitimise it using the 2nd ammedment. They seem to me to be comprehensively blinkered to alternatives to tasks they justify the gun for.
How many guns deaths do *you* think it will take for a change in attitude. It's as if every family has to lose someone and feel the pain for it to get critical mass, such is the inertia.
Going to do a bit of selective quoting, hope you don't mind.
creampuff said:
Well a shotgun firing buckshot (actually you will normally fire birdshot in sporting use, which is a larger number of smaller pellets as opposed to buckshot which could be like 9 x .30 caliber handgun bullets coming your way) is a devastating weapon at short range if you were to shoot someone with it.
I am sure. But you do have to get pretty close. If I were to point at a 'defending my house from assailants' weapon, I'd figure this would be the one to choose as it's really just a *defensive* weapon.creampuff said:
For secure venues, by "secure venue" are you referring to a rifle/pistol/gun club or you mean a secure container in your house?
I mean a secure container at a secure facility, and no, not at your house. If you had your weapons behind several locks at your house and someone burst through your front door wanting stuff, having them locked in a safe in your basement is no use to you.
creampuff said:
There's no need to store guns in a club, even in the UK, you can store them at home in a gun safe. In the US (at least the states which I know about), there is no requirement to store them in a gun safe but there is a responsibility on the part of the owner that their gun not be misused. As I said before, there are some crackheads, criminals and general trailer park trash (the first two categories would not legally be allowed to have guns, the later category probably would) in the US who aren't careful with their guns and there are a number of accidental shootings as a result. But - the large majority of people do not fall into any of these categories and never have a mishap. The other purpose of guns in the US, other than sporting use, is self defence which in the US is a legitimate and legal reason to own a gun.
The majority of Americans probably think they don't know anybody who has had a mishap with a gun, have worked out that everyone who accidentally shoots themselves seems to be drunk/on drugs/trailer park trash rather than "normal" people and do know there are also criminals with guns who use them to commit crimes. So maybe they figure that guns are pretty safe for sporting/target practice use in the correct hands, you can shoot at paper targets or watermelons which is fun and in a SHTF situation, you can use them for defence. What's not to like?
That and they also believe in the constitutional right of the individual to bear arms
You didn't actually give me a response to this question:The majority of Americans probably think they don't know anybody who has had a mishap with a gun, have worked out that everyone who accidentally shoots themselves seems to be drunk/on drugs/trailer park trash rather than "normal" people and do know there are also criminals with guns who use them to commit crimes. So maybe they figure that guns are pretty safe for sporting/target practice use in the correct hands, you can shoot at paper targets or watermelons which is fun and in a SHTF situation, you can use them for defence. What's not to like?
That and they also believe in the constitutional right of the individual to bear arms
"What are the main reasons that drive Americans desire to own their own lethal weapon ?"
As an outside Americans appear to have an almost irrational desire to own a deadly weapon and they try and legitimise it using the 2nd ammedment. They seem to me to be comprehensively blinkered to alternatives to tasks they justify the gun for.
How many guns deaths do *you* think it will take for a change in attitude. It's as if every family has to lose someone and feel the pain for it to get critical mass, such is the inertia.
jimmyjimjim said:
gavsdavs said:
Because I'm a dumb-ass brit you're going to have to help me here.
Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
From another dumb ass brit, you might be surprised.Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
http://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2015/08/22/fo...
I certainly wouldn't go camping here without a weapon.
Yes, I know your post was 'deliberately dumb', but there are compelling arguments for gun ownership in some areas, even for pistols or semi-automatic rifles.
11000 people per annum killed by people with guns in US.
Perspective.
mike9009 said:
jimmyjimjim said:
gavsdavs said:
Because I'm a dumb-ass brit you're going to have to help me here.
Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
From another dumb ass brit, you might be surprised.Do many Americans (I think this one counts for canadians a lot more) - have to scare off wild animals ?
http://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2015/08/22/fo...
I certainly wouldn't go camping here without a weapon.
Yes, I know your post was 'deliberately dumb', but there are compelling arguments for gun ownership in some areas, even for pistols or semi-automatic rifles.
11000 people per annum killed by people with guns in US.
Perspective.
> How many guns deaths do *you* think it will take for a change in attitude. It's as if every family has to lose someone and feel the pain for it to get critical mass, such is the inertia.
That's a ridiculous argument. Almost nobody, in comparison to the 150-million households have guns, has an incident involving a gun. Those that do are usually felons who are prohibited from owning guns or substance abusers. For "every family to lose someone" you would have to increase the rate of gun deaths by a factor of a hundred thousand. It is never going to happen any more than every car in the UK is suddenly going to crash and kill someone.
That's a ridiculous argument. Almost nobody, in comparison to the 150-million households have guns, has an incident involving a gun. Those that do are usually felons who are prohibited from owning guns or substance abusers. For "every family to lose someone" you would have to increase the rate of gun deaths by a factor of a hundred thousand. It is never going to happen any more than every car in the UK is suddenly going to crash and kill someone.
creampuff said:
> How many guns deaths do *you* think it will take for a change in attitude. It's as if every family has to lose someone and feel the pain for it to get critical mass, such is the inertia.
That's a ridiculous argument. Almost nobody, in comparison to the 150-million households have guns, has an incident involving a gun. Those that do are usually felons who are prohibited from owning guns or substance abusers. For "every family to lose someone" you would have to increase the rate of gun deaths by a factor of a hundred thousand. It is never going to happen any more than every car in the UK is suddenly going to crash and kill someone.
Thirty thousand gun deaths and people still support the mentally ill having easy access to firearms? I guess a few more will have to die before they make the connection That's a ridiculous argument. Almost nobody, in comparison to the 150-million households have guns, has an incident involving a gun. Those that do are usually felons who are prohibited from owning guns or substance abusers. For "every family to lose someone" you would have to increase the rate of gun deaths by a factor of a hundred thousand. It is never going to happen any more than every car in the UK is suddenly going to crash and kill someone.
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