US Journalists Shot Dead On Air
Discussion
WinstonWolf said:
Thirty thousand gun deaths and people still support the mentally ill having easy access to firearms? I guess a few more will have to die before they make the connection 
The majority of those gun deaths (about two-thirds) are suicides. The UK and the US have about the same suicide rate, both about 12 suicides per 100,000 population per year. Perhaps Americans use guns for suicide because and British use other means, but achieve about the same overall suicide rate. creampuff said:
WinstonWolf said:
Thirty thousand gun deaths and people still support the mentally ill having easy access to firearms? I guess a few more will have to die before they make the connection
The majority of those gun deaths (about two-thirds) are suicides. The UK and the US have about the same suicide rate, both about 12 suicides per 100,000 population per year. Perhaps Americans use guns for suicide because and British use other means, but achieve about the same overall suicide rate. M'kay...
creampuff said:
WinstonWolf said:
Thirty thousand gun deaths and people still support the mentally ill having easy access to firearms? I guess a few more will have to die before they make the connection
The majority of those gun deaths (about two-thirds) are suicides. The UK and the US have about the same suicide rate, both about 12 suicides per 100,000 population per year. Perhaps Americans use guns for suicide because and British use other means, but achieve about the same overall suicide rate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
eccles said:
A quick google show the UK to have about half the rate of suicides when compared to America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
Beware of quick Googles. That same Google link to the Wiki article shows two tables, which the article itself may not be reliable. Within the Wiki article, the UK suicide rate, depending on which table you look at is different by a factor of 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
In the second table in the Wiki article, the US and UK rate is both about 12 per 100,000 per year.
In this article:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/19/num...
The UK rate is again about 12 per 100,000 per year.
According to the office of national statistics,
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_395145.pdf
the rate is about 12 per 100,000 per year.
The US rate is about 12 per 100,000 per year.
The rate seems to me to be the same in the US and UK, which suggests that while guns may be the means to suicide in the US, they are not the root cause of suicides and those suicides may happen anyway if a gun was not available. They do seem to happen at the same rate in the UK, despite the lesser availability of guns.
Edited by creampuff on Monday 31st August 13:18
creampuff said:
eccles said:
A quick google show the UK to have about half the rate of suicides when compared to America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
Beware of quick Googles. That same Google link to the Wiki article shows two tables, which the article itself may not be reliable. Within the Wiki article, the UK suicide rate, depending on which table you look at is different by a factor of 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
In the second table in the Wiki article, the US and UK rate is both about 12 per 100,000 per year.
In this article:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/19/num...
The UK rate is again about 12 per 100,000 per year.
According to the office of national statistics,
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_395145.pdf
the rate is about 12 per 100,000 per year.
The US rate is about 12 per 100,000 per year.
The rate seems to me to be the same in the US and UK, which suggests that while guns may be the means to suicide in the US, they are not the root cause of suicides and those suicides may happen anyway if a gun was not available. They do seem to happen at the same rate in the UK, despite the lesser availability of guns.
Edited by creampuff on Monday 31st August 13:18
creampuff said:
WinstonWolf said:
What about the one hundred thousand gun related murders? Is that an acceptable price to pay for a law that related to muskets?
Your figures are wrong by a factor of 10 or more. There are nowhere near 100,000 murders in the USA, let alone gun related murders. gavsdavs said:
"What are the main reasons that drive Americans desire to own their own lethal weapon ?"
As an outside Americans appear to have an almost irrational desire to own a deadly weapon and they try and legitimise it using the 2nd ammedment. They seem to me to be comprehensively blinkered to alternatives to tasks they justify the gun for.
When you grow up in America, it makes more sense. It is a society built on hustling, it is obsessed with ownership and consumption, and it worships military culture and violence. The obsession with violence was something that I as an American didn't really get until I moved away. Regardless, this all sows the seeds for a deep mistrust and fear of others, at all socio-economic levels.As an outside Americans appear to have an almost irrational desire to own a deadly weapon and they try and legitimise it using the 2nd ammedment. They seem to me to be comprehensively blinkered to alternatives to tasks they justify the gun for.
I've seen even the staunchest anti-gun types succumb to the "need" to own after a slight brush with danger. Personally, I think the root of the problem has less to do with gun laws and more with the national psyche.
Ok, the yanks are obsessed with guns and all that 'pry it from my cold dead hands' w
kery ~ I get that, and ok let them have their revolvers and run of the mill pistols and long arms.
As far as I see it the major problem is the military grade stuff. Why would you need semi auto or automatic weaponry? Yeah yeah they are cool to shoot and all that, but owning a gatling gun or m60? Thats ridiculous.
Sure, normal long arms and pistols still are capable of killing just the same, but just not as many as quick. And the crazy ex-employee from the tv station had a glock pistol, it was designed for the military initially. Not much would have stopped that loon doing what he wanted to do, but it wasn't a mass killing at least.
kery ~ I get that, and ok let them have their revolvers and run of the mill pistols and long arms.As far as I see it the major problem is the military grade stuff. Why would you need semi auto or automatic weaponry? Yeah yeah they are cool to shoot and all that, but owning a gatling gun or m60? Thats ridiculous.
Sure, normal long arms and pistols still are capable of killing just the same, but just not as many as quick. And the crazy ex-employee from the tv station had a glock pistol, it was designed for the military initially. Not much would have stopped that loon doing what he wanted to do, but it wasn't a mass killing at least.
It's worth pointing out that a lot of ‘normal’ rifles are actually semi-automatic, and that almost all ‘normal’ pistols are semi-automatic, including revolvers - in that they fire a round every time the trigger is pulled.
You appear to be confusing semi with full auto, which as ‘Title II’ is very highly regulated, and have been used in an absolutely minuscule number of crimes.
There are a large number of semi-automatic pistols that were made specifically and solely for the civilian market, presumably using one of these instead of an evil, military, Glock would have been ok?
You appear to be confusing semi with full auto, which as ‘Title II’ is very highly regulated, and have been used in an absolutely minuscule number of crimes.
There are a large number of semi-automatic pistols that were made specifically and solely for the civilian market, presumably using one of these instead of an evil, military, Glock would have been ok?
And going back to the anti-AR15 brigade: the AR stands for Armalite, not assault rifle, that being the original manufacturer.
There are a lot of reasons why you would own one. The ammo is cheap as centrefire ammo goes, the bullets have a relatively flat trajectory and there isn't much recoil. Such good reasons that you can legally buy AR15s in the UK. The difference between US models being that you have to cycle the bolt manually to chamber each round instead of being semi-auto.
Guns like the AR15 which fire the same 5.56 NATO bullets are popular in both the UK and US because they are versatile sporting guns.
I think the ban guns lobby on this thread should do more research before posting about banning stuff in the US which is legal even in the UK.
There are a lot of reasons why you would own one. The ammo is cheap as centrefire ammo goes, the bullets have a relatively flat trajectory and there isn't much recoil. Such good reasons that you can legally buy AR15s in the UK. The difference between US models being that you have to cycle the bolt manually to chamber each round instead of being semi-auto.
Guns like the AR15 which fire the same 5.56 NATO bullets are popular in both the UK and US because they are versatile sporting guns.
I think the ban guns lobby on this thread should do more research before posting about banning stuff in the US which is legal even in the UK.
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