4000 people die within 6 weeks of being deemed "Fit to Work"
Discussion
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/over...
1300 of whom died after appeal.
Good headline aside, what can be extrapolated from this? What percentage of those found fit to work do the 4000 represent and how does this percentage compare to those who die every day? This could be a really important news story but the information just isn't in the article for us to make any judgement on wether the DWP have done a great or abysmal job.
A quick google says half a million people die in the UK each year, these 4000 have died over appx 2.5 years. Dodgy maths says that's ~0.3% of total UK deaths being people who had been signed off as fit to work by the DWP. But the total includes everything from falling down stairs to dying in your bed at 105.
1300 of whom died after appeal.
Good headline aside, what can be extrapolated from this? What percentage of those found fit to work do the 4000 represent and how does this percentage compare to those who die every day? This could be a really important news story but the information just isn't in the article for us to make any judgement on wether the DWP have done a great or abysmal job.
A quick google says half a million people die in the UK each year, these 4000 have died over appx 2.5 years. Dodgy maths says that's ~0.3% of total UK deaths being people who had been signed off as fit to work by the DWP. But the total includes everything from falling down stairs to dying in your bed at 105.
There's a good link to this blog in the comments of the Independant article -
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/27/known-num...
Which basically identifies that there is a correlation but the statistics aren't significant enough to draw any proper conclusions from.
My mother has been severely disabled and unable to work for nearly 20 years and I recall there was a concern about 5 years ago when this means testing was suggested. Fortunately it was quickly quashed because she was very obviously severely disabled and unable to work, but things would have been a lot worse if she had 'slipped through the net' so to speak.
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/27/known-num...
Which basically identifies that there is a correlation but the statistics aren't significant enough to draw any proper conclusions from.
My mother has been severely disabled and unable to work for nearly 20 years and I recall there was a concern about 5 years ago when this means testing was suggested. Fortunately it was quickly quashed because she was very obviously severely disabled and unable to work, but things would have been a lot worse if she had 'slipped through the net' so to speak.
Adrian W said:
Either they are fit for work or they are not, if an expert says you are and you subsequently die fairly quickly afterwards, clearly he or she was wrong. by declaring the person fit the expert has taken responsibility for the decision.
Surely the means of death is a tiny bit important in your above statement. glazbagun said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/over...
1300 of whom died after appeal.
Good headline aside, what can be extrapolated from this? What percentage of those found fit to work do the 4000 represent and how does this percentage compare to those who die every day? This could be a really important news story but the information just isn't in the article for us to make any judgement on wether the DWP have done a great or abysmal job.
A quick google says half a million people die in the UK each year, these 4000 have died over appx 2.5 years. Dodgy maths says that's ~0.3% of total UK deaths being people who had been signed off as fit to work by the DWP. But the total includes everything from falling down stairs to dying in your bed at 105.
found 'fit for all work' and put on JSA or 1300 of whom died after appeal.
Good headline aside, what can be extrapolated from this? What percentage of those found fit to work do the 4000 represent and how does this percentage compare to those who die every day? This could be a really important news story but the information just isn't in the article for us to make any judgement on wether the DWP have done a great or abysmal job.
A quick google says half a million people die in the UK each year, these 4000 have died over appx 2.5 years. Dodgy maths says that's ~0.3% of total UK deaths being people who had been signed off as fit to work by the DWP. But the total includes everything from falling down stairs to dying in your bed at 105.
found ' fit for some work' in the forseeable future and put in the Work Related Activities Group of ESA ?
London424 said:
Adrian W said:
Either they are fit for work or they are not, if an expert says you are and you subsequently die fairly quickly afterwards, clearly he or she was wrong. by declaring the person fit the expert has taken responsibility for the decision.
Surely the means of death is a tiny bit important in your above statement. 
London424 said:
Adrian W said:
Either they are fit for work or they are not, if an expert says you are and you subsequently die fairly quickly afterwards, clearly he or she was wrong. by declaring the person fit the expert has taken responsibility for the decision.
Surely the means of death is a tiny bit important in your above statement. Adrian W said:
Either they are fit for work or they are not, if an expert says you are and you subsequently die fairly quickly afterwards, clearly he or she was wrong. by declaring the person fit the expert has taken responsibility for the decision.
Not really, i could die of a heart attack tomorrow. I'm fit for work today though.
Adrian W said:
Either they are fit for work or they are not, if an expert says you are and you subsequently die fairly quickly afterwards, clearly he or she was wrong. by declaring the person fit the expert has taken responsibility for the decision.
Err Not necessarily. The article was pretty thin on evidence and the reasons or causes of death. Everybody dies one day and it is possible that many of these deaths were out of the workplace or completely u related to work! To make the article meaningful there is a need to ensure that a complete analysis of reasons for deaths etc verses those that were normally fit to work to be done before any meaningful conclusions can be made. Once again a poorly written article designed to inflame people with half the facts. And the paper calls itself "The Independent"!!Adrian W said:
Either they are fit for work or they are not, if an expert says you are and you subsequently die fairly quickly afterwards, clearly he or she was wrong. by declaring the person fit the expert has taken responsibility for the decision.
Err Not necessarily. The article was pretty thin on evidence and the reasons or causes of death. Everybody dies one day and it is possible that many of these deaths were out of the workplace or completely u related to work! To make the article meaningful there is a need to ensure that a complete analysis of reasons for deaths etc verses those that were normally fit to work to be done before any meaningful conclusions can be made. Once again a poorly written article designed to inflame people with half the facts. And the paper calls itself "The Independent"!!Adrian W said:
GT03ROB said:
How the hell do you work that out?
Take it at face value, if someone is ill, then someone says there's nothing wrong with you go to work, they then drop dead, there's a fair chance they were ill. Equally, a proportion of people will drop dead anyway, so it is the degree to which the sample shows a greater proportion which is relevant.
'Fit for work' assessments were/are simply box ticking exercises, from the introduction the Government was rounded upon with allegations of these tick boxes bearing little relation to the persons health and/or ability to work. Earlier this year, and following the resignation of the assessment contractor, ATOS, Government has now introduced a new assessment plan which hopefully is related to real people in the real world.
king result!Adrian W said:
GT03ROB said:
How the hell do you work that out?
Take it at face value, if someone is ill, then someone says there's nothing wrong with you go to work, they then drop dead, there's a fair chance they were ill. Nonsense - here's an easy job stacking shelves you can do perfectly well.
...5 weeks later...
Guy drops dead of a heart attack. Send the DWP chap to jail?
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