Could this be the future of politics?
Discussion
I'm a little angry at the govt after reading the "4000 people die after being declared for for work" thread and the way that Ben Goldacre reckons they've played a blinder in giving us the data fought for in the FOI request but not the data we need to answer the obviously pertinent question.
Now OK, fair play, the FOI request could have asked the question better. But they would have known what was being sought, and rather than volunteer the information, instead sought (after fighting to with old it in the first place) to obfuscate.
Anyway, my point was not to rant but to wonder- is the popularity of Corbyn, the massive Yes turnout in the referendum, the (muted) rise of UKIP the evolved response of a populace that has grown accustomed to manipulation by the government and media?
Politicians only ever seem to listen at election time. When DC took Devo Max off the table, I think he thought he'd stitched up the SNP in the same way he'd compromised Clegg with the AV vote, but the response that enough Scots would rather throw their future on the rocks of the complete unknown rather than accept the current way of rule brought about The Vow which was part Devo Max, and part kick into the long grass.
Now with Corbyn, everyone's throwing the kitchen sink at the guy and it seems to make little impact on his support. Is it a symptom of how sick people are with being "managed" that really rather extreme solutions are being pushed in order to force a government to do our collective bidding when it's otherwise clever and smarmy enough to palm us off?
Now OK, fair play, the FOI request could have asked the question better. But they would have known what was being sought, and rather than volunteer the information, instead sought (after fighting to with old it in the first place) to obfuscate.
Anyway, my point was not to rant but to wonder- is the popularity of Corbyn, the massive Yes turnout in the referendum, the (muted) rise of UKIP the evolved response of a populace that has grown accustomed to manipulation by the government and media?
Politicians only ever seem to listen at election time. When DC took Devo Max off the table, I think he thought he'd stitched up the SNP in the same way he'd compromised Clegg with the AV vote, but the response that enough Scots would rather throw their future on the rocks of the complete unknown rather than accept the current way of rule brought about The Vow which was part Devo Max, and part kick into the long grass.
Now with Corbyn, everyone's throwing the kitchen sink at the guy and it seems to make little impact on his support. Is it a symptom of how sick people are with being "managed" that really rather extreme solutions are being pushed in order to force a government to do our collective bidding when it's otherwise clever and smarmy enough to palm us off?
Regarding FOI questions, the precise question must be answered, nothing more, nothing less. To interprete what is being asked and answer accordingly is a dangerous step. If the question is wrong then it is up to those asking the question to phase it correctly.
Regarding the 'rise' of left wing type politics well that is for the populace to vote on. If the majority believe that what is promised by this approach can be delivered and vote for it then that is what democracy is all about. However, once the bed is made one must lay on it - reap what you sow and all that and don't complain if it doesn't turn out as promised!
My personal view is that people have, for far too long, enjoyed a lifestyle that they could not afford fuelled by huge debt. Now the piper is to be paid they don't like it and are turning to the politics of the 'magic money tree'. Is this a realistic way toward? Only time will tell!
Regarding the 'rise' of left wing type politics well that is for the populace to vote on. If the majority believe that what is promised by this approach can be delivered and vote for it then that is what democracy is all about. However, once the bed is made one must lay on it - reap what you sow and all that and don't complain if it doesn't turn out as promised!
My personal view is that people have, for far too long, enjoyed a lifestyle that they could not afford fuelled by huge debt. Now the piper is to be paid they don't like it and are turning to the politics of the 'magic money tree'. Is this a realistic way toward? Only time will tell!
glazbagun said:
Now with Corbyn, everyone's throwing the kitchen sink at the guy and it seems to make little impact on his support. Is it a symptom of how sick people are with being "managed" that really rather extreme solutions are being pushed in order to force a government to do our collective bidding when it's otherwise clever and smarmy enough to palm us off?
What support does he actually have? His support amongst the Labour Party? That's not really support is it, it's preaching to the converted. Yeah he has great support amongst people who share his views and hate the fact that they were sure they would win the last election and were rejected by most of the country. Are they in danger of making the same mistake, in beliving that the Westminster bubble, BBC, Guardian or rantings of the social media loons represent the UK at large?I think Corbyn is actually clever and has better managed his media persona much better than the others, but I think to none core labour voters the thought of having him as PM is about as attractive as syphilis.
He is the lefty history teacher that most people are glad they got away from when they left school, or a social worker. Does this correlate to the Labour Party demographic? I would suggest it explains a lot of his support.
I can't understand how much coverage this is getting, I don't recall any party leadership election getting 10% of this coverage, is the BBC obsession with it over hyping him to a massive extent?
I wasn't suggesting that either Corbyn or the SNP were the future for the UK, but rather that what had once been "the protest vote" of supporting a fringe outside cause/party/individual may now grown into the new method of ensuring you get the government you want.
Corbyn will almost certainly never be PM, but his election to Labour leader would surely teach Labour not to take the electorate for granted, likewise the way that only 6% stood in the way of the loss of Scotland.
Like some kind of electoral blackmail. "Less Austerity or we vote for corbyn" as opposed to the numbers game where it is assumed that saner heads will always prevail.
Corbyn will almost certainly never be PM, but his election to Labour leader would surely teach Labour not to take the electorate for granted, likewise the way that only 6% stood in the way of the loss of Scotland.
Like some kind of electoral blackmail. "Less Austerity or we vote for corbyn" as opposed to the numbers game where it is assumed that saner heads will always prevail.
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