Political refugees etc
Discussion
mikal83 said:
I read that nearly a Million refugees have come to the EU this year but don't read about any going to a neighboring country.
Daily Mail/Nazi Germany...lost me on that one.
The "Arabic" language bit was just a generalization. Sweden etc aint exactly Libya is it!
The vast majority go to Jordan, Lebanon ,Turkey and Iraq. Those are neighbouring countries. A smaller proportion head to Egypt and an even smaller number to Europe.Daily Mail/Nazi Germany...lost me on that one.
The "Arabic" language bit was just a generalization. Sweden etc aint exactly Libya is it!
What have you been reading? This information is freely available on the Internet from a number of sources.
I think it's fair to say the majority seek asylum within the Middle East and some are only displaced within the country (Iraq, Syria etc)
Then you have those who want to make a huge trip to Europe to seek asylum in a region that is far safer than the Middle East and in excluding the wealthy Arab countries offers a better quality of life
And there are those will are literally willing to risk their life with all of the above and more, NHS, social housing, strict human rights, good benefit system and what most of the world sum it up as being 'the land of opportunity'
If I'm honest I can't blame them and would consider the same in their situation, recently the bbc interviewed a Syrian family who wanted to bring their ill daughter to the UK but she fell ill in Turkey and didn't have the right paperwork so died in hospital. Had they made it sooner she would have received NHS treatment and survived
What worries me is the staggering numbers. 800,000 in Germany in 1 year??? Thousands everyday enter Greece from Turkey? 100s are rescued almost daily from the med and bought to Italy, Budapest train station literally stopped migrants from using the train for several hours and thousands had taken over the whole area, same with Macedonia when it protected its border the numbers grew within a day so much that there was a crush and they had no choice but to let them in
How does Europe cope with this in say 2 years time? If nothing changes Germany will have 1.6 million extra civilians and Europe in general over 2.5 million if we look at the official numbers up to July but it's obvious last month saw far more than ever
Hospitals, schools, transport, jobs, housing, doctors, higher education, food etc can we provide all this in time?
Then you have those who want to make a huge trip to Europe to seek asylum in a region that is far safer than the Middle East and in excluding the wealthy Arab countries offers a better quality of life
And there are those will are literally willing to risk their life with all of the above and more, NHS, social housing, strict human rights, good benefit system and what most of the world sum it up as being 'the land of opportunity'
If I'm honest I can't blame them and would consider the same in their situation, recently the bbc interviewed a Syrian family who wanted to bring their ill daughter to the UK but she fell ill in Turkey and didn't have the right paperwork so died in hospital. Had they made it sooner she would have received NHS treatment and survived
What worries me is the staggering numbers. 800,000 in Germany in 1 year??? Thousands everyday enter Greece from Turkey? 100s are rescued almost daily from the med and bought to Italy, Budapest train station literally stopped migrants from using the train for several hours and thousands had taken over the whole area, same with Macedonia when it protected its border the numbers grew within a day so much that there was a crush and they had no choice but to let them in
How does Europe cope with this in say 2 years time? If nothing changes Germany will have 1.6 million extra civilians and Europe in general over 2.5 million if we look at the official numbers up to July but it's obvious last month saw far more than ever
Hospitals, schools, transport, jobs, housing, doctors, higher education, food etc can we provide all this in time?
Some of the migrant stories you hear are questionable, for instance, the BBC today had a video following a Syrian girls journey from Turkey to Sweden. She was 'fleeing' Syria yet her back story was that she actually left Syria over 2 years ago with her family and had been living a working in Istanbul for several years - is her move a genuine case of Asylum? That's what she claimed when she eventually arrived in Sweden.
Same with the guy from Morocco on the Calais programme last night - what's his beef with Morocco? I thought Morocco was relatively stable and safe.
Sure, there are probably 100's of thousands of genuine cases but I can't help but think that many are now just taking advantage of the chaos and making the move now while it appears relatively easy.
Same with the guy from Morocco on the Calais programme last night - what's his beef with Morocco? I thought Morocco was relatively stable and safe.
Sure, there are probably 100's of thousands of genuine cases but I can't help but think that many are now just taking advantage of the chaos and making the move now while it appears relatively easy.
mikal83 said:
On the subject of Syria then. Why don't they go to Iraq/Lebanon/Israel/Egypt etc. Stay in Turkey, head due north to the Caucuses maybe even Russia.....Ukraine, Poland etc. But on the TV today was a story about a young woman with a group trying to get to Sweden.....thru Bulgaria and up.
Israel?? Do you know anything of world politics??? And Ukraine may accept them, but the country is in a spot of bother itself - But Israel? That would be funny if it wasn't so ignorant.liller said:
Some of the migrant stories you hear are questionable, for instance, the BBC today had a video following a Syrian girls journey from Turkey to Sweden. She was 'fleeing' Syria yet her back story was that she actually left Syria over 2 years ago with her family and had been living a working in Istanbul for several years - is her move a genuine case of Asylum? That's what she claimed when she eventually arrived in Sweden.
Same with the guy from Morocco on the Calais programme last night - what's his beef with Morocco? I thought Morocco was relatively stable and safe.
Sure, there are probably 100's of thousands of genuine cases but I can't help but think that many are now just taking advantage of the chaos and making the move now while it appears relatively easy.
And that's a big issue - nobody would be so hard-hearted about it if there weren't a fair few economic migrants, and sadly ISIS terrorists, in between the true refugees. Same with the guy from Morocco on the Calais programme last night - what's his beef with Morocco? I thought Morocco was relatively stable and safe.
Sure, there are probably 100's of thousands of genuine cases but I can't help but think that many are now just taking advantage of the chaos and making the move now while it appears relatively easy.
I guess the question is what the hell the EU is going to do about it. Once again it's a question of either a lot more Europe or a lot less Europe.
We can cancel the Dublin convention and treat the EU as a single nation for Asylum purposes, or we could roll back Schengen and put border patrols in. Despite my usual Euro-sceptic tendencies I think a "whole EU" approach would work better - by spreading the migrants around the EU, regardless of where you claim, you make the idea a lot less appetizing for people who are aiming for a specific country.
However, I don't think that's going to fly. I think we will probably see more countries follow Austria's example and start running border checks.
mikal83 said:
I read that nearly a Million refugees have come to the EU this year but don't read about any going to a neighboring country.
Daily Mail/Nazi Germany...lost me on that one.
The "Arabic" language bit was just a generalization. Sweden etc aint exactly Libya is it!
That's because, as mentioned, what you read is low brow clickbait crap. Not a personal insult, BTW, finding plain facts in news stories is getting nigh on impossible these days. Daily Mail/Nazi Germany...lost me on that one.
The "Arabic" language bit was just a generalization. Sweden etc aint exactly Libya is it!
But Wiki link I posted and the UN's own website both list the countries being impacted the most by the refugee crisis. As you'd expect they neighbor Syria:
http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php
Lebanon is an interesting one- they've a population of ~5.5 million but have taken over a million refugees from Syria and nearly half a million from Palestine! I have no idea how a country can manage with something like that!
From what I've read, the numbers reaching Europe represent ~3% of Syrian refugeesand we're freaking out. Turkey probably has little sympathy for our plight.
Kawasicki said:
liller said:
Sure, there are probably 100's of thousands of genuine cases but I can't help but think that many are now just taking advantage of the chaos and making the move now while it appears relatively easy.
Like I would.
No Bend said:
mikal83 said:
On the subject of Syria then. Why don't they go to Iraq/Lebanon/Israel/Egypt etc. Stay in Turkey, head due north to the Caucuses maybe even Russia.....Ukraine, Poland etc. But on the TV today was a story about a young woman with a group trying to get to Sweden.....thru Bulgaria and up.
Israel?? Do you know anything of world politics??? And Ukraine may accept them, but the country is in a spot of bother itself - But Israel? That would be funny if it wasn't so ignorant.mikal83 said:
Probably more than you. Please explain why Arabic people cant go to Israel. Arent there Arabic people already there? Western Ukraine. Georgia, huge country with quite a low population density as is Poland, then theres Russia..... Iran is humongous.
I dont know if you are being serious or not?Honestly I am not trying to sound condescending but I think maybe you need to do a little more research on whats happening in the region.
To illustrate the point as a British Passport Holder I caanot enter Israel and then enter into most Arab / Muslim countries on the same passport.
mikal83 said:
On the subject of Syria then. Why don't they go to Iraq/Lebanon/Israel/Egypt etc. Stay in Turkey, head due north to the Caucuses maybe even Russia.....Ukraine, Poland etc. But on the TV today was a story about a young woman with a group trying to get to Sweden.....thru Bulgaria and up.
Is this the one who was settled and working in Turkey? Upped sticks and decided she wanted to be with her brother in Sweden. She may well have been a genuine refugee initially but the second move is economic migrancy and should go through the ordinary channels.I am a little concerned about how many of Germany's 800k migrants will stay in Germany once they have EU residency...
IainT said:
Is this the one who was settled and working in Turkey? Upped sticks and decided she wanted to be with her brother in Sweden. She may well have been a genuine refugee initially but the second move is economic migrancy and should go through the ordinary channels.
I am a little concerned about how many of Germany's 800k migrants will stay in Germany once they have EU residency...
People being opportunist right now.I am a little concerned about how many of Germany's 800k migrants will stay in Germany once they have EU residency...
So many speak English. And how will Germany enforce the 800k limit? There are millions more where they came from, and people trafficking is good business.
eatcustard said:
Why dont the Syria men say and fight IS, they should be banned from leaving the country, bunch of cowards. If it was me I would say and fight and take as many of them with me as possible.
If a 100,000 Braveheart Scots invaded England, would the English run off to Calais. 
Mermaid said:
eatcustard said:
Why dont the Syria men say and fight IS, they should be banned from leaving the country, bunch of cowards. If it was me I would say and fight and take as many of them with me as possible.
If a 100,000 Braveheart Scots invaded England, would the English run off to Calais. 
Mermaid said:
eatcustard said:
Why dont the Syria men say and fight IS, they should be banned from leaving the country, bunch of cowards. If it was me I would say and fight and take as many of them with me as possible.
If a 100,000 Braveheart Scots invaded England, would the English run off to Calais. 
I have a couple/ few of thoughts on this issues
1 I think the previous labour government is very guilty of using asylum seeker as a catch all term for migrants. I remember when 20 something men were coming over here from Czech/ Poland/ Lithuania etc prior to 2004 being referred to as asylum seekers, when clearly the majority were not. Did this change peoples perception of genuine asylum seekers? I would suggest it did.
2 if these people are genuinely seeking refuge, why dont we put them up in some of the disused military bases dotted around the south coast, they would be safe, they could be fed and watered and given basic medical care until the conflicts are over then repatriated.
Why on earth do they need to be housed, given housing benefit, given out of work benefits, given unfettered access to the NHS? Surely this is overly generous, when the NHS is allegedly broke, we have a housing shortage etc etc.
3 My nans house was bombed twice during the war, and she never fled. she had relatives in America who she could have fled to for much better life but did not.
Is what is going on in Somalia really as bad as area bombing? When a guy I knew in London has recently started a business over there??
I am not anti immigration, but feel we are now obliged to provide benefits to anyone who appears on these shores, seems a bit OTT. I am sure I will be called a racist or whatever.
1 I think the previous labour government is very guilty of using asylum seeker as a catch all term for migrants. I remember when 20 something men were coming over here from Czech/ Poland/ Lithuania etc prior to 2004 being referred to as asylum seekers, when clearly the majority were not. Did this change peoples perception of genuine asylum seekers? I would suggest it did.
2 if these people are genuinely seeking refuge, why dont we put them up in some of the disused military bases dotted around the south coast, they would be safe, they could be fed and watered and given basic medical care until the conflicts are over then repatriated.
Why on earth do they need to be housed, given housing benefit, given out of work benefits, given unfettered access to the NHS? Surely this is overly generous, when the NHS is allegedly broke, we have a housing shortage etc etc.
3 My nans house was bombed twice during the war, and she never fled. she had relatives in America who she could have fled to for much better life but did not.
Is what is going on in Somalia really as bad as area bombing? When a guy I knew in London has recently started a business over there??
I am not anti immigration, but feel we are now obliged to provide benefits to anyone who appears on these shores, seems a bit OTT. I am sure I will be called a racist or whatever.
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