Trucks to be banned from turning left
Discussion
RYH64E said:
Dr Murdoch said:
Finlandia said:
The bike is most likely totally hidden behind the LHS mirrors, driver checked the mirrors to see if anyone was coming up on the left and the bike was hidden behind the mirrors.
Indeed, mostly hidden by mirrors, part by A frame, part by cab.But its a good demonstration of massive blackspots that HGV's have.
SpeckledJim said:
Silently sliding up a 3' gap on the inside of an HGV isn't a 'legitimate' use of the road. It's just so crushingly, obviously stupid, and week-in week-out we have a tragic and expensive early death to prove it.
You mean the 3' gap where the road is painted a different colour and with a pretty bike drawn on it?I agree that in many cases it is obviously stupid but the road layout doesn't exactly help discourage people from going there.
SpeckledJim said:
Silently sliding up a 3' gap on the inside of an HGV isn't a 'legitimate' use of the road. It's just so crushingly, obviously stupid, and week-in week-out we have a tragic and expensive early death to prove it.
I agree that that's stupid but you don't understand what Left Hooking means or where cycle lanes are in London. walm said:
SpeckledJim said:
Silently sliding up a 3' gap on the inside of an HGV isn't a 'legitimate' use of the road. It's just so crushingly, obviously stupid, and week-in week-out we have a tragic and expensive early death to prove it.
You mean the 3' gap where the road is painted a different colour and with a pretty bike drawn on it?I agree that in many cases it is obviously stupid but the road layout doesn't exactly help discourage people from going there.
It is baffling that anyone can spend more than an hour on a bike in a city and not notice how close the inside edge of a truck or bus gets to the railings on the inside of a left turn.
The cycle lane is in no way 'safe', especially when it passes a left turn. It is barely even 'safer'. Anyone would be a total lunatic to rely on a stripe of yellow paint to protect them from a 40-tonner driven by a guy on the other side of the cab, 10-feet off the ground.
Sadly, inquests don't come back with "Very sad. He's dead because he's a spluttering moron". If they did, it might help.
hermitage henry said:
SpeckledJim said:
Silently sliding up a 3' gap on the inside of an HGV isn't a 'legitimate' use of the road. It's just so crushingly, obviously stupid, and week-in week-out we have a tragic and expensive early death to prove it.
I agree that that's stupid but you don't understand what Left Hooking means or where cycle lanes are in London. No value being the rightest guy in the morgue.
Esseesse said:
If the HGV has overtaken you when you're already at the lights then the driver knows you're there. You should probably not allow this to happen though so you may need to cycle defensively by getting out of the gutter and positioning yourself to use your side of the road, so drivers can only get past when it's suitable to do so. The highway code says they should leave the room a car would need anyway.
Love how it's still the cyclists fault the HGV performed an overtake then immediately turned left. esxste said:
Esseesse said:
If the HGV has overtaken you when you're already at the lights then the driver knows you're there. You should probably not allow this to happen though so you may need to cycle defensively by getting out of the gutter and positioning yourself to use your side of the road, so drivers can only get past when it's suitable to do so. The highway code says they should leave the room a car would need anyway.
Love how it's still the cyclists fault the HGV performed an overtake then immediately turned left. It's the assumption that the HGV driver has seen the cyclist, and then isn't going to do something stupid that kills cyclists.
Driver's mistakes are inevitable, so be ready for them.
What they need to do is educate the cyclists, because it is often their reckless, feckless decision making that puts them in that spot. I can imagine that if you were waiting patiently at some lights and a lorry driver sidled up beside you putting you in his blind spot whilst indicating left, you might feel slightly aggrieved and move to a safer position, even if it means scooting out in front of him before he moves. If you wantonly cycle up the nearside of a waiting lorry, having considered the risk or not, you've only yourself to blame if something goes wrong.
esxste said:
Esseesse said:
If the HGV has overtaken you when you're already at the lights then the driver knows you're there. You should probably not allow this to happen though so you may need to cycle defensively by getting out of the gutter and positioning yourself to use your side of the road, so drivers can only get past when it's suitable to do so. The highway code says they should leave the room a car would need anyway.
Love how it's still the cyclists fault the HGV performed an overtake then immediately turned left. They don't even pay bloody road tax init.
walm said:
Finlandia said:
What is needed is some ad and billboard campaign that makes the road users aware of the dangers...
You mean something like this (from 2010):
RYH64E said:
I would say that what's needed is a design that enables HGV drivers to check that there's nothing in the way before turning left (or right, or reversing). It's ludicrous that in this day and age a driver is expected to turn into a space without being able to check whether it's clear or not, and having to rely on cyclists knowing that they're likely to get crushed if they're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even my road car has a camera that operates when I'm reversing, and proximity sensors as parking aids, how hard can it be to retrofit such systems to HGV cabs?
My daughter is learning to drive at the moment, I keep stressing to her that when she's driving she's responsible for making sure that a manouevre is safe, usually this is in the context of not taking advice from whoever happens to be in the passenger seat (passengers telling me it's all clear is a bugbear of mine, if I'm driving I'll decide if it's clear or not) but the same applies in this case. It's the driver's responsibility to ensure that a manouevre is safe or not, and he/she needs to be given the tools to take that decision.
There are reversing cameras on many HGVs, but the size of the thing and the usually very small areas it needs to manoeuvre in coupled with the busy traffic makes it My daughter is learning to drive at the moment, I keep stressing to her that when she's driving she's responsible for making sure that a manouevre is safe, usually this is in the context of not taking advice from whoever happens to be in the passenger seat (passengers telling me it's all clear is a bugbear of mine, if I'm driving I'll decide if it's clear or not) but the same applies in this case. It's the driver's responsibility to ensure that a manouevre is safe or not, and he/she needs to be given the tools to take that decision.
Ideally there would be two guys in the lorry and they would have the authority to cone off the manoeuvring area if needed, but then you have the cost of that and the rage of the other road users.
Dr Murdoch said:
roachcoach said:
When did we stop teaching "If you can't the driver, he can't see you?" you don't need a bloody manual of the blind spots.
Honestly.
Its one of the same thoughHonestly.
Driver can't see you = blind spot (no manual required
)When choosing a place to sit (be that stationary or in relative motion) make sure you can see the other driver...
Hell I don't drive in another cars blnd spot, the hell would I be playing at on a bike in an HGVs?!?!?!
SpeckledJim said:
It's everyone's responsibility to take account of the potential mistakes of everyone else.
It's the assumption that the HGV driver has seen the cyclist, and then isn't going to do something stupid that kills cyclists.
Driver's mistakes are inevitable, so be ready for them.
Yep, everyone else on the road is an idiot.It's the assumption that the HGV driver has seen the cyclist, and then isn't going to do something stupid that kills cyclists.
Driver's mistakes are inevitable, so be ready for them.
Anyone who doesn't make that basic assumption...is also an idiot.
Some people just go out of their way more than others to prove it. If they were just on bikes it wouldn't be a problem.
Foppo said:
I am a cyclist and car driver.
Have you been on an "education" swap course so you can sit in a truck cab?Dr Murdoch said:
Further to my previous (abrubt) post
So they are at risk from HGV's going straight on and right.
Why are you 'quoting' a picture of a left hand drive truck ? Aren't most construction vehicles in London RHD not a LHD sat in a car park. At least use a RHD truck.So they are at risk from HGV's going straight on and right.
SpeckledJim said:
It's everyone's responsibility to take account of the potential mistakes of everyone else.
It's the assumption that the HGV driver has seen the cyclist, and then isn't going to do something stupid that kills cyclists.
Driver's mistakes are inevitable, so be ready for them.
Drivers make mistakes; cyclists make mistakes; pedestrians make mistakes.It's the assumption that the HGV driver has seen the cyclist, and then isn't going to do something stupid that kills cyclists.
Driver's mistakes are inevitable, so be ready for them.
We all make mistakes. Road and vehicle design should minimise the frequency and impact of those mistakes.
Zigster said:
Drivers make mistakes; cyclists make mistakes; pedestrians make mistakes.
We all make mistakes. Road and vehicle design should minimise the frequency and impact of those mistakes.
Everyone makes mistakes. There are the small mistakes and there are the monumentally stupid mistakes of riding up the left of HGVs. I work in London, I've seen it many times. WTF are they thinking?We all make mistakes. Road and vehicle design should minimise the frequency and impact of those mistakes.
speedyguy said:
Dr Murdoch said:
Further to my previous (abrubt) post
So they are at risk from HGV's going straight on and right.
Why are you 'quoting' a picture of a left hand drive truck ? Aren't most construction vehicles in London RHD not a LHD sat in a car park. At least use a RHD truck.So they are at risk from HGV's going straight on and right.
speedyguy said:
Why are you 'quoting' a picture of a left hand drive truck ? Aren't most construction vehicles in London RHD not a LHD sat in a car park. At least use a RHD truck.
FFS really 
Stick a mirror down the middle, not a great deal of difference is there.
I used it to make a point / create awareness, I wasn't aware I was going to feed a pedants ego.
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