Trucks to be banned from turning left
Discussion
creampuff said:
Everyone makes mistakes. There are the small mistakes and there are the monumentally stupid mistakes of riding up the left of HGVs. I work in London, I've seen it many times. WTF are they thinking?
It's a Darwinian mistake though, they get crushed and taken out of the gene pool.I don't know why people get their knickers so much in a twist about what cyclists (generally) do to themselves.
However if you do something dick-ish in a car, bus or truck and there is a good chance you'll take out others.
Dr Murdoch said:
I used it to make a point / create awareness, I wasn't aware I was going to feed a pedants ego.
Oh well at least i won't be a flat pedant because i wouldn't go up the inside of a truck 
and i wouldn't have to read the notice on the back of nearly every truck and van in the country asking cyclists not to do it Dr Murdoch said:
Opel-GT said:
Fixed that for you
Jasandjules said:
What kind of p**k thinks that instead of cyclists not being tw*ts and undertaking, it is better to ban trucks from turning left? Still, cars will still run the feckers over..... Mind the last one I saw get knocked down was overtaking a bus that was turning right......
From the first page, can't be arsed writing it again.otolith said:
Just for the avoidance of doubt, there is no proposal to ban trucks from turning left. It's a fabrication.
There is a suggestion that the construction traffic management plan for large projects will take account of the risk construction traffic poses to cyclists when planning the specified routes. That's it.
Oh, and at the same time there are new rules coming in which mean that construction traffic in London will have to obey the same rules for side guards and mirrors that normal lorries do.
Is there not enough s
t in the world to get upset about without making stuff up?
THERE IS NO PLAN TO BAN TRUCKS TURNING LEFT, IT'S JUST SOME B0LL0CKS A sThere is a suggestion that the construction traffic management plan for large projects will take account of the risk construction traffic poses to cyclists when planning the specified routes. That's it.
Oh, and at the same time there are new rules coming in which mean that construction traffic in London will have to obey the same rules for side guards and mirrors that normal lorries do.
Is there not enough s
t in the world to get upset about without making stuff up?tTY TABLOID MADE UP TO WIND UP REACTIONARY FOGEYSotolith said:
THERE IS NO PLAN TO BAN TRUCKS TURNING LEFT, IT'S JUST SOME B0LL0CKS A stTY TABLOID MADE UP TO WIND UP REACTIONARY FOGEYS
That's not what was said when various TfL representatives and pro-cycling campaigners were being interviewed on TV. The statement there was that routes would be planned so that HGVs made multiple right turns instead of a left turn. tTY TABLOID MADE UP TO WIND UP REACTIONARY FOGEYSThis has not just been reported in the Evening Standard, it is also in The Independent, to quote:
"Construction lorries driving into London will be made to travel routes that minimise the number of left turns they take to improve road safety, it has been announced."
"GLA planning powers will be used to strictly prescribe the routes which HGVs serving them can follow – requiring, for instance, that they avoid a road heavily used by cyclists or take a route that minimises the number of left turns, the most dangerous manoeuvre,” a press statement from Transport for London said."
So they won't be banned from turning left. They will just have to travel on pre-determined routes set not by the drivers or the operators but by TfL and the GLA, those pre-determined routes just happening not to have left turns.
Lorries on big construction projects which have specified construction traffic management plans - like the ones which prevent construction traffic using the road through the village I live in, for example.
We already define what routes construction traffic on large projects are allowed to use. We have for ages. We keep them away from narrow roads where they will cause congestion for cars, from residential areas when there is an alternate route, from schools during opening hours, that kind of thing. Taking account of not killing cyclists is nothing radical.
We already define what routes construction traffic on large projects are allowed to use. We have for ages. We keep them away from narrow roads where they will cause congestion for cars, from residential areas when there is an alternate route, from schools during opening hours, that kind of thing. Taking account of not killing cyclists is nothing radical.
SpeckledJim said:
gifdy said:
Dr Murdoch said:
Further to my previous (abrubt) post
Cyclists often position themselves at the stop line at junctions, unsurprisingly as they are encouraged to do so, however by doing so they unwittingly put themselves in one of a HGV's many blind spots.
So they are at risk from HGV's going straight on and right.
Wow, that picture highlights the problem well. Cyclists should be far more aware of their own vulnerability but, if an HGV has that many blind spots, it has no place in a built up urban area.Cyclists often position themselves at the stop line at junctions, unsurprisingly as they are encouraged to do so, however by doing so they unwittingly put themselves in one of a HGV's many blind spots.
So they are at risk from HGV's going straight on and right.
The problem is 90% cyclists placing their safety in the hands of people who may or may not know they are there (and may or may not care.)
I also acknowledged the cyclists own responsibility. BTW, I reckon 90% of statistics are made up on the spot
creampuff said:
There are already HGV-specific sat-navs which allow you to plan routes with height or width restrictions. I predict new sat-nav route planning options like:
...
- don't turn left route
Although for different reasons (saving fuel/time at busy junctions) and for the opposite direction, this already exists for couriers. UPS or someone like that use it in the States....
- don't turn left route
The cab on a big truck is to high.It should be similar to a cab on a bus.
And these type of trucks should be allowed in a busy town centre.This type of design is safer in my opinion than the cab on the majority of trucks which is far to high.This limits visibility to many blind spots.
And these type of trucks should be allowed in a busy town centre.This type of design is safer in my opinion than the cab on the majority of trucks which is far to high.This limits visibility to many blind spots.
SpeckledJim said:
esxste said:
Esseesse said:
If the HGV has overtaken you when you're already at the lights then the driver knows you're there. You should probably not allow this to happen though so you may need to cycle defensively by getting out of the gutter and positioning yourself to use your side of the road, so drivers can only get past when it's suitable to do so. The highway code says they should leave the room a car would need anyway.
Love how it's still the cyclists fault the HGV performed an overtake then immediately turned left. It's the assumption that the HGV driver has seen the cyclist, and then isn't going to do something stupid that kills cyclists.
Driver's mistakes are inevitable, so be ready for them.
You just sound like avictim blamer.
oyster said:
SpeckledJim said:
esxste said:
Esseesse said:
If the HGV has overtaken you when you're already at the lights then the driver knows you're there. You should probably not allow this to happen though so you may need to cycle defensively by getting out of the gutter and positioning yourself to use your side of the road, so drivers can only get past when it's suitable to do so. The highway code says they should leave the room a car would need anyway.
Love how it's still the cyclists fault the HGV performed an overtake then immediately turned left. It's the assumption that the HGV driver has seen the cyclist, and then isn't going to do something stupid that kills cyclists.
Driver's mistakes are inevitable, so be ready for them.
You just sound like avictim blamer.
RYH64E said:
oyster said:
SpeckledJim said:
esxste said:
Esseesse said:
If the HGV has overtaken you when you're already at the lights then the driver knows you're there. You should probably not allow this to happen though so you may need to cycle defensively by getting out of the gutter and positioning yourself to use your side of the road, so drivers can only get past when it's suitable to do so. The highway code says they should leave the room a car would need anyway.
Love how it's still the cyclists fault the HGV performed an overtake then immediately turned left. It's the assumption that the HGV driver has seen the cyclist, and then isn't going to do something stupid that kills cyclists.
Driver's mistakes are inevitable, so be ready for them.
You just sound like avictim blamer.
Drivers can do their best, but the people who can actually prevent 100% of these events are the guys on bikes.
Cripes, there are stickers on the back of all the big stuff I see these days too, warning people of the danger.
Why do people these days think they can put themselves directly in harms way and simultaneously divorce themselves of their personal responsibility? It's frankly ludicrous. And I ride a bike a lot, so there is no driver bias here.
Also getting rid of the railings on the edge of the kerb would help more tbh, give people someone to dive to if it all goes wrong.
The problem seems to be particularly around construction traffic.
I think the measures being introduced seem sensible and should help - removing the exemption on mirror arrangements and side guards and choosing safer routes where routes are mandated.
Over the years I've seen a lot of disdain for tipper drivers from drivers of normal lorries - don't know whether that is also a factor or just snobbery.
I think the measures being introduced seem sensible and should help - removing the exemption on mirror arrangements and side guards and choosing safer routes where routes are mandated.
Over the years I've seen a lot of disdain for tipper drivers from drivers of normal lorries - don't know whether that is also a factor or just snobbery.
oyster said:
SpeckledJim said:
esxste said:
Esseesse said:
If the HGV has overtaken you when you're already at the lights then the driver knows you're there. You should probably not allow this to happen though so you may need to cycle defensively by getting out of the gutter and positioning yourself to use your side of the road, so drivers can only get past when it's suitable to do so. The highway code says they should leave the room a car would need anyway.
Love how it's still the cyclists fault the HGV performed an overtake then immediately turned left. It's the assumption that the HGV driver has seen the cyclist, and then isn't going to do something stupid that kills cyclists.
Driver's mistakes are inevitable, so be ready for them.
You just sound like avictim blamer.
But turning left and squashing a cyclist who put themself unannounced into your blind spot isn't the truck driver's mistake - it's the cyclist's. And they don't half get punished for it.
'Victim blaming' is correct if the victim is indeed to blame.
RYH64E said:
I thought that one of the basic rules of driving was don't proceed unless you know it's safe to do so, not proceed anyway and hope that there isn't a cyclist in the (very large) blind spot.
There is no way to go from stopped to moving in an HGV and be sure it's safe. The only way to check your nearside blind spot is to stick your head out of the nearside window. By the time you've climbed back to your seat, you don't know if the situation has changed. Cyclists need to look after themselves, because drivers are all some mixture of can't and won't.
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