British nurses facing life on the street
Discussion
Crush said:
98elise said:
Where does it say nurses are facing life on the street?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nurses-turning-food-banks-asking-6367795Apologies, that was from this scaremongering article.
Has nurses pay, or NHS spending been cut?
Nursing seems reasonably well paid, and NHS spending seems to be at an all time high.
Nurses also have very transferable skills to either agency work (better pay) or working abroad (better pay and better life).
I'm really not feeling the outrage here.
Foppo said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It isn't that good either for what they have to know and the responsibility what comes with it.My wife was a care assistant for years for the eldery and later in live for people with learning difficulties.Yes these jobs are a vocation but the pay my wife got was very low.Doctor's seem to do ok don't they.150 grand and 35 grand is some difference.I forgot they have to study forever to become a doctor.My wife and my father have both been care assistants at one time, and it required very little training and was a minimum wage job.
Foppo said:
The hype is that they are underpayd for the job they are performing.
Why should they have to work every hr of overtime plus shiftwork to earn something resembling a decent wage?
My daughter is a qualified mental health nurse very devoted to her job.She is university educated and has plenty of practical experience.
Wards are full of mentally ill people, a symptom of our society.Like so many people over the last five years payrises have been minimal but the cost of living hasn't.
She can go and get another job that pays better then.Why should they have to work every hr of overtime plus shiftwork to earn something resembling a decent wage?
My daughter is a qualified mental health nurse very devoted to her job.She is university educated and has plenty of practical experience.
Wards are full of mentally ill people, a symptom of our society.Like so many people over the last five years payrises have been minimal but the cost of living hasn't.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Don't think an average GP figure of £100k GP is correct.To earn £100k doing out of hours only, you'd need to be working practically morning to night evey single Sat and Sunday of the year, plus bank holidays, plus two or three nights during the week. Nice anti social hours. From that you'd still have to your not insignificant medical legal cover, plus your own pension, and then spend about a half a day a week chasing up your pay.
If you are doing it to supplement your income as an average GP day worker, you will already be busting your balls 0830-6pm four or five days a week, before taking on the out of hours work.
I would say that the average GP these days is probably a locum, and doing average 9-6 days is on about £50-60k gross tops, then minus the insurance which is ~£10k+ a year.
Not being funny, but for what they do, conditions and workload, GPs are among cheapest professonal labour in the HNS.
I didn't realise new band 5's jump two increments in their first year, how die that work?
21 k isn't that bad a starting wage really and if they have any nous they'll be a band 6 within 2-3 years which is just over 26k. Add in weekend supplements,mileage etc and they aren't doing too badly. Plus, they will likely have come straight out of uni with no real income in many cases. Presumably they weren't living on the streets then?
21 k isn't that bad a starting wage really and if they have any nous they'll be a band 6 within 2-3 years which is just over 26k. Add in weekend supplements,mileage etc and they aren't doing too badly. Plus, they will likely have come straight out of uni with no real income in many cases. Presumably they weren't living on the streets then?
Just to add into the mix that Solicitors PII is about £7-8kpa per head for a firm that is considered a very good risk by insurers and with a £6m limit - although this is usually paid by the partnership/LLP as I would expect Drs PII to be, as with other professional fees and CPD.
ETA - I see Tonker got there first on this though...
ETA - I see Tonker got there first on this though...
My daughter in law is a staff nurse.
My son is a self employed Kitchen/bathroom installer cum heating engineer.
My son earns more than his wife , but there is not a huge amount in it. I have to say, she never works days.
The household gross income is in excess of 100k .
To imply nurses are badly paid is a pack of lies.
My son is a self employed Kitchen/bathroom installer cum heating engineer.
My son earns more than his wife , but there is not a huge amount in it. I have to say, she never works days.
The household gross income is in excess of 100k .
To imply nurses are badly paid is a pack of lies.
CTO said:
I didn't realise new band 5's jump two increments in their first year, how die that work?
Actually I think that's stopped recently. It was considered to be a training year and they had to reach certain standard at 6 and 12 months to get it.anonymous said:
[redacted]
I doubt many people in their 20's and 30's in any job consider the value of the benefits package. It doesn't help to pay the bills.In the NHS the employee pension contributions are significant (probably double what a typical private sector employee would pay). The scheme is on its 3rd iteration in recent years and as the retirement age moves further away younger staff think it's a giant scam - indeed a family member in the NHS said many of her similar age (she's 30) colleagues aren't in the scheme.
The person we know has done 10 years full and part-time at uni (starting with a good science based degree from a proper uni) and earns £30K/yr. Relatively chunky student loan (and pension contributions) come off that.
She works on a rota between 8AM to 8PM Mon-Fri on her base salary. She thinks the pay is OK but it seems poor to me especially with the responsibility that goes with the job.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Friday 4th September 23:51
Ganglandboss said:
KingNothing said:
£21k while not the best level of wages, is still more than some other people seem to manage with.
Last time I looked, a nurse's salary is closer to the £30k mark. It starts low and increases with an annual increment. I used to be an electrician at a university, and that's how our pay structure worked (and the rates seem fairly similar too). I never felt hard up, and as with any career, you have to start at the bottom.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Like many in this forum you have an outdated view of nurses.I can't speak for general nurses working in hospitals, but some don't have the 'easy' life.My Mrs is a Mental health nurse. She's a temporary Band 6, but her manager (band7) has left, so she has to do that as well. For no extra money. There's no 'baked in' pay rises, I think she had 1% this year, and nothing the last 5 years.
She has better holiday than me, I think it's around 32 days a year. This year she's carried 2 weeks over as she couldn't take her annual leave due to staff shortages. She's currently running at an average of 50 hours time owing, as due to budget cuts overtime won't be paid. I don't think she's finished a shift on time since I've known her (nearly 6 years).
As for her pension, it might be generous, but a large chunk of her wages go out every month to fund it.
'Ordinary' nurses have started working 12 hour shifts on a nice pattern so they can have a little order in their lives, my Mrs works earlies, lates or nights. Quite often she'll work a late, then an early, the nights are often only one or maybe 2 nights at a time. If you've got any sense you'll know how much this messes you up for days afterwards.
She has to attend courses on her days off, and mandatory training has to be fitted in somewhere, again, sometimes in her own time
All of her colleagues are messed up with their own issues/stress related to work,sickness is high and injuries from work are high and the general feeling is they are one incident away from front page news......all this for just under £30k a year.
And the government is trying to take away their anti social hours money for working nights and weekends.
No doubt there are some nurses who can just pop into work, chuck a few pills at a patient, wipe up a bit of poo, then go home and plan their next pool shift for a bit of overtime, but many out there are keeping the NHS going at a personal cost to themselves, and without their goodwill it would collapse in hours.
crankedup said:
Ganglandboss said:
KingNothing said:
£21k while not the best level of wages, is still more than some other people seem to manage with.
Last time I looked, a nurse's salary is closer to the £30k mark. It starts low and increases with an annual increment. I used to be an electrician at a university, and that's how our pay structure worked (and the rates seem fairly similar too). I never felt hard up, and as with any career, you have to start at the bottom.I know earlier I said £21k isn't bad, but the s
t that nurses have to put up with I wouldn't be able to cope with the job for that ammount, my ex-gf is a nurse and regularly would have 10-12 hour shifts and still have to work ontop of it to cover shortfalls and wouldn't get into the house for hours after she was supposed to be in. Added in with not being able to breaks on time, or even at all, the absuse from patients and her suffering a hand injury due to a violent patient, and getting no support from the NHS for it. Not to mention her being admitted to a ward for abdominal pains, the ward being the one next door to her place of work, and her management still had the cheek to question her sickness record. The pay isn't good enough for the job they have to do, but the pay isn't bad in isolation.
In saying that without knowing the details, the nurses in the story could simply be the people in life who have missmanaged their money, those types of people can work in all forms of industries, have enough of any profession grouped together and there's bound to be a few who've went crazy with credit cards or have missmanaged their finances some other way.
t that nurses have to put up with I wouldn't be able to cope with the job for that ammount, my ex-gf is a nurse and regularly would have 10-12 hour shifts and still have to work ontop of it to cover shortfalls and wouldn't get into the house for hours after she was supposed to be in. Added in with not being able to breaks on time, or even at all, the absuse from patients and her suffering a hand injury due to a violent patient, and getting no support from the NHS for it. Not to mention her being admitted to a ward for abdominal pains, the ward being the one next door to her place of work, and her management still had the cheek to question her sickness record. The pay isn't good enough for the job they have to do, but the pay isn't bad in isolation.In saying that without knowing the details, the nurses in the story could simply be the people in life who have missmanaged their money, those types of people can work in all forms of industries, have enough of any profession grouped together and there's bound to be a few who've went crazy with credit cards or have missmanaged their finances some other way.
Nurses are no longer the lowest-paid clinical staff in a hospital - that title goes to Healthcare Assistants.
Nurses are a lot more skilled than the traditional view suggests, which is why the wage rate is often near £30k.
It'll get interesting with doctor recruitment soon. For decades the NHS (and entire medical profession) has been accustomed to medicine being one of the most desirable and competitive careers to join, and therefore getting very high-quality candidates. That's changing - wage rates and terms have become much less competitive, and the best candidates are going elsewhere. I don't think there will be a 'shortage' of doctors as such, but they'll have to get used to lower-quality candidates.
Nurses are a lot more skilled than the traditional view suggests, which is why the wage rate is often near £30k.
It'll get interesting with doctor recruitment soon. For decades the NHS (and entire medical profession) has been accustomed to medicine being one of the most desirable and competitive careers to join, and therefore getting very high-quality candidates. That's changing - wage rates and terms have become much less competitive, and the best candidates are going elsewhere. I don't think there will be a 'shortage' of doctors as such, but they'll have to get used to lower-quality candidates.
It's all just a load of over hyped bks. The numbers involved are tiny.
As for working long hours in a difficult job... Cry me a fking river. We know it's tough, but so are plenty of other jobs for less money.
My work mates are going to be doing 13 hour days with one day off every 2-3 weeks until nearly Christmas. Some of them earn less then a nurse's starting salary, and most of them less than the £30-£35k that the mid to higher grade nurses apparently earn.
ks. The numbers involved are tiny. As for working long hours in a difficult job... Cry me a f
king river. We know it's tough, but so are plenty of other jobs for less money. My work mates are going to be doing 13 hour days with one day off every 2-3 weeks until nearly Christmas. Some of them earn less then a nurse's starting salary, and most of them less than the £30-£35k that the mid to higher grade nurses apparently earn.
HaplessBoyLard said:
It's all just a load of over hyped bks. The numbers involved are tiny.
As for working long hours in a difficult job... Cry me a fking river. We know it's tough, but so are plenty of other jobs for less money.
My work mates are going to be doing 13 hour days with one day off every 2-3 weeks until nearly Christmas. Some of them earn less then a nurse's starting salary, and most of them less than the £30-£35k that the mid to higher grade nurses apparently earn.
But they're undervalued angels on the front lines. They deserve more ks. The numbers involved are tiny. As for working long hours in a difficult job... Cry me a f
king river. We know it's tough, but so are plenty of other jobs for less money. My work mates are going to be doing 13 hour days with one day off every 2-3 weeks until nearly Christmas. Some of them earn less then a nurse's starting salary, and most of them less than the £30-£35k that the mid to higher grade nurses apparently earn.
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