Are the left wing less tolerant of the views of others?
Discussion
In my experience, yes.
They tend to be quite unimaginative and believe more centrally directed intervention is the obvious answer to any problem. Anyone who dissents from this doesn't wish to solve the problem. They also tend to make a lot of assumptions about people who disagree wtih them. Either that they are selfish and greedy, and possibly have a sadistic dislike of the poor and wish to see them suffer, or they are religious zealots who want everything to revert to some fixed point in history.
They very rarely seem to start with the belief that someone might see the same problem a different way and sincerely believe that there is a more effective way to solve it. Many also tend to be so sure of their solution that they are totally uninterested in even hearing an alternative.
When they feel that people are on their side they tend to be snide and condescending and when they feel that things are losing the argument they become angry and aggressive.
There are exceptions to all of the above but in general terms I've found this to be true of many lefties.
They tend to be quite unimaginative and believe more centrally directed intervention is the obvious answer to any problem. Anyone who dissents from this doesn't wish to solve the problem. They also tend to make a lot of assumptions about people who disagree wtih them. Either that they are selfish and greedy, and possibly have a sadistic dislike of the poor and wish to see them suffer, or they are religious zealots who want everything to revert to some fixed point in history.
They very rarely seem to start with the belief that someone might see the same problem a different way and sincerely believe that there is a more effective way to solve it. Many also tend to be so sure of their solution that they are totally uninterested in even hearing an alternative.
When they feel that people are on their side they tend to be snide and condescending and when they feel that things are losing the argument they become angry and aggressive.
There are exceptions to all of the above but in general terms I've found this to be true of many lefties.
I have some right wing mates with whom I don't always agree I also have some left wing ones with whom I sometimes do but on the whole the left do seem to be a tad more precious and morally superior in their outlook on their form of democracy over that of the general public. You just need to witness the outpouring of vitriol after the last election to see that. Can't remember the rabid right going into apoplexy and turning to the streets whenever Labour won an election due to the voting of the electorate. Watching Owen Jones on the Andrew Marr show yesterday and was staggered by his arrogant statement saying the left quote facts and the right quote stories to get their point across. Sums it up for me but he is your typical champagne socialist and not really indicative of those that work for a living in some day to day job and are of a left wing persuasion. Also some of the most rabid racists I've met have been left wing working class despite the protestations of the fizz swilling lot who claim that anyone left of centre welcomes those from foreign climes.
A couple of home truth comments on the Left from the Left by Labour's Lord Donoughue:
"...most leftish British people get politically involved because they genuinely believe they wish to contribute to the common good in our society. They tend to believe, rightly or wrongly, that the right wing wishes to contribute to their own individual or class good..."
Wrongly, but anachronistic class war slogans are still attractive to many on the Left.
"...a feeling of moral superiority, which is a characteristic of many middle and professional types on the left..."
Feeling, not fact, also typical.
"...most leftish British people get politically involved because they genuinely believe they wish to contribute to the common good in our society. They tend to believe, rightly or wrongly, that the right wing wishes to contribute to their own individual or class good..."
Wrongly, but anachronistic class war slogans are still attractive to many on the Left.
"...a feeling of moral superiority, which is a characteristic of many middle and professional types on the left..."
Feeling, not fact, also typical.
I think it shows the weakness of anyone's argument if they resort to smear, shouting etc. rather than engage in proper argument. I have noticed over the years, such behaviour is much more prevalent in those of a left persuasion; for example, the slightest argument again Labour's open door immigration policy which has caused so many problems with lack of housing, NHS waiting lists and so on, are met with left wing chants of 'racist', 'bigot', 'wicked', 'spouting bile' etc. They seem afraid to confront the actual issues, but rely on emotion based rhetoric and shouting down.
turbobloke said:
A couple of home truth comments on the Left from the Left by Labour's Lord Donoughue:
"...most leftish British people get politically involved because they genuinely believe they wish to contribute to the common good in our society. They tend to believe, rightly or wrongly, that the right wing wishes to contribute to their own individual or class good..."
Wrongly, but anachronistic class war slogans are still attractive to many on the Left.
"...a feeling of moral superiority, which is a characteristic of many middle and professional types on the left..."
Feeling, not fact, also typical.
Not exactly a huge sample size ..."...most leftish British people get politically involved because they genuinely believe they wish to contribute to the common good in our society. They tend to believe, rightly or wrongly, that the right wing wishes to contribute to their own individual or class good..."
Wrongly, but anachronistic class war slogans are still attractive to many on the Left.
"...a feeling of moral superiority, which is a characteristic of many middle and professional types on the left..."
Feeling, not fact, also typical.
One could find a quotaion about pretty much any view or definition.
Presenting just one person's view as a "home truth" could be construed as bias..........
Considerably less so. Intolerance is hard-wired into the ideology - it's based in struggle and war. The lefty brain needs conflict like the host needs air to survive. Without it there's no cause and the entire movement is made redundant, hence why lefties are on a constant move toward obscurity. Yesterday they were fighting the class war, today they are fighting imaginary racists and evil patriarchs. Tomorrow they'll be fighting the moon because it looks like cheese... DAIRYIST!
Lucas CAV said:
Not exactly a huge sample size ...
How do you know how many lefties Lord Donoughue knows? He's met and worked with a lot, and clearly knows the type. The sample size behind Lord Donoughue's comment won't be small.Lucas CAV said:
One could find a quotaion about pretty much any view or definition.
Presenting just one person's view as a "home truth" could be construed as bias..........
There's a significant problem with your claim. To be a home truth it has to come from home, the quotation would need to be home-based. The above comments represent exactly that situation. They're from the Left about the Left.Presenting just one person's view as a "home truth" could be construed as bias..........
Just any old quotation would not do, not at all.
If an accurate observation from somebody rooted in the Left and working with the Left for many years is offered as a home truth, that's because it's a home truth. HTH
Edited by turbobloke on Monday 7th September 08:10
Everyone has their own perceptions of these things minengine.
I would definitely say there's an element of smuggness and condescension amongst many on the right, and sometimes an over reliance on perceived "common sense" which is simply assumptions, and can often be ill founded.
"Intolerance" is something I perceive as being much more common amongst left wingers.
I would definitely say there's an element of smuggness and condescension amongst many on the right, and sometimes an over reliance on perceived "common sense" which is simply assumptions, and can often be ill founded.
"Intolerance" is something I perceive as being much more common amongst left wingers.
I would have thought that 'wings' are, almost by definition, more vocal than those who meander in and around the middle with a sort of 'whatever' point of view.
Further, left and right is a poor way of classifying a person's political point of view. I've voted mainly tory in my 30 and onwards, but I was in a constituency that had an excellent MP for most of the time. I would have voted for him whatever his colour. Some of my views are historically left: I thought that the privatisation of the railways was a bad idea as, as many predicted, it ensured that costs to the state would go up and costs to the travelling public would also increase. So we threw away control for a pittance. But then, that was the view of many tories, including MPs, at the time. So does that make me right? Well, I know I was right, but right of centre.
On the other hand, my thoughts on how we should deal with the unemployed are rather right of centre. Very right of centre. But my views on how we treat the sick, injured and those mentally and/or physically unable to work, not to mention those who care for them, puts me left of Kier Hardy but without his terrible childhood as motivation.
It sometimes seems to me that anyone who wants to remain in the EU, sometimes for very good business reasons, is regarded as a communist, yet it is an apolitical decision. I have difficulty getting my head around that. And if you want intolerance, all one has to do is mention that, because of a singular lack of unbiased facts, it is impossible to come to an informed decision. Being unable to decide which way to vote seems to make me a lefty.
My experience, some years ago now, of both labour and tory activists is that the left had a different motivation. Most were politically aware but perhaps not wordly wise. Those times I enjoyed gatherings at Blackheath tory HQ (I was a young tory) were utterly unpolitical. There was an acceptance that the tory party looked out for the rich and richer, especially those who had au pairs. Lovely German girls, with no friends over here, who didn't mind that I was 6'3" and a little over 11 stone. But I digress.
If you want the intolerant right, then go to a coffee shop in my town and listen to those who have their Daily Mails in front of them. You will find little old ladies and about half the number of little old men spouting the most shocking - at least the first time you hear it - rants on islamists, immigrants, the French (why them?), police pensions - I once intervened, much to my wife's embarrassment, to point out that what they'd read in their favourite fantasy comic was not so much untrue as a deliberate lie intended to mislead for political reasons - and other 'right wing' matters.
I've yet to meet a lefty who is intolerant in the same way, but that doesn't mean that they are not intolerant in other ways.
I accept that, on here at least, I'm viewed as a bit of a lefty, despite my voting history (I didn't vote tory in my new constituency as we have an oaf sitting in the safe tory seat), but it often seems that I receive that accolade/criticism whenever I make a tolerant comment about, for instance, islamists, immigrants, those unfortunates who are unable to work and the police. Oddly, five years ago, my views on the police would have made me more right wing. Strange how things change - but my views didn't.
I don't say much about the French, but I have nothing against them. Ultra lefty proven there.
Further, left and right is a poor way of classifying a person's political point of view. I've voted mainly tory in my 30 and onwards, but I was in a constituency that had an excellent MP for most of the time. I would have voted for him whatever his colour. Some of my views are historically left: I thought that the privatisation of the railways was a bad idea as, as many predicted, it ensured that costs to the state would go up and costs to the travelling public would also increase. So we threw away control for a pittance. But then, that was the view of many tories, including MPs, at the time. So does that make me right? Well, I know I was right, but right of centre.
On the other hand, my thoughts on how we should deal with the unemployed are rather right of centre. Very right of centre. But my views on how we treat the sick, injured and those mentally and/or physically unable to work, not to mention those who care for them, puts me left of Kier Hardy but without his terrible childhood as motivation.
It sometimes seems to me that anyone who wants to remain in the EU, sometimes for very good business reasons, is regarded as a communist, yet it is an apolitical decision. I have difficulty getting my head around that. And if you want intolerance, all one has to do is mention that, because of a singular lack of unbiased facts, it is impossible to come to an informed decision. Being unable to decide which way to vote seems to make me a lefty.
My experience, some years ago now, of both labour and tory activists is that the left had a different motivation. Most were politically aware but perhaps not wordly wise. Those times I enjoyed gatherings at Blackheath tory HQ (I was a young tory) were utterly unpolitical. There was an acceptance that the tory party looked out for the rich and richer, especially those who had au pairs. Lovely German girls, with no friends over here, who didn't mind that I was 6'3" and a little over 11 stone. But I digress.
If you want the intolerant right, then go to a coffee shop in my town and listen to those who have their Daily Mails in front of them. You will find little old ladies and about half the number of little old men spouting the most shocking - at least the first time you hear it - rants on islamists, immigrants, the French (why them?), police pensions - I once intervened, much to my wife's embarrassment, to point out that what they'd read in their favourite fantasy comic was not so much untrue as a deliberate lie intended to mislead for political reasons - and other 'right wing' matters.
I've yet to meet a lefty who is intolerant in the same way, but that doesn't mean that they are not intolerant in other ways.
I accept that, on here at least, I'm viewed as a bit of a lefty, despite my voting history (I didn't vote tory in my new constituency as we have an oaf sitting in the safe tory seat), but it often seems that I receive that accolade/criticism whenever I make a tolerant comment about, for instance, islamists, immigrants, those unfortunates who are unable to work and the police. Oddly, five years ago, my views on the police would have made me more right wing. Strange how things change - but my views didn't.
I don't say much about the French, but I have nothing against them. Ultra lefty proven there.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
]Which they are.
Crude, racist factually incorrect b
ks taken seriously by a certain type which have less than one GSCE between them all.And it's bizarre this insistence on dividing left/right views with tolerance of scum.
I have never, and will never, vote labour and yet if I see a thick racist on Facebook then it's categorical that this person is not my friend.
Edited by blindswelledrat on Monday 7th September 08:41
Jasandjules said:
Yes. Left wingers are always very pro-freedom of speech, unless it disagrees with their views, at which point (they miss the irony impressively well) they seek censure.
That's what experience over many years confirms, and research evidence on intolerance adds confirmation that Conservatives are more tolerant - in spite of soundbites from the Left suggesting otherwise.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Article on Pew Research Centre study said:
A new study provides proof that liberals are more intolerant of different political ideologies than conservatives.
The right-wing has long complained that underneath the façade of “tolerance” and “diversity,” liberals are uniquely intolerant of different ideas — and the study of internet usage proves it.
44 percent with “consistently liberal” views would block or “unfriend” someone on a social network because of different political views. Only three in ten conservatives would do the same.
The right-wing has long complained that underneath the façade of “tolerance” and “diversity,” liberals are uniquely intolerant of different ideas — and the study of internet usage proves it.
44 percent with “consistently liberal” views would block or “unfriend” someone on a social network because of different political views. Only three in ten conservatives would do the same.
Article also said:
Pew Research did the study, which showed a massive bias in internet news sites. Of the 32 most used news sites, 25 are considered “left of center.”
The paper "Political Intolerance, Right and Left" from J T Crawford also shows that intolerance is associated less with Conservatism, not more.Some articles...
Rise of the Intolerant Liberals
Strong stuff below in response to "The Labour-supporting blogger Sunny Hundal has done his bit for world peace by declaring that Right Wingers are all “evil”."
Five Reasons Why Left Wingers are Pure Evil
The final point in the above article is 'left-wingers are the most tolerant people on earth until they encounter someone who disagrees with them'.
Which is where we came in...
Jasandjules said:
Left wingers are always very pro-freedom of speech, unless it disagrees with their views, at which point (they miss the irony impressively well) they seek censure.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agreed. There seems to be less and less of this, from any perspective, political or otherwise. Along with shallow, herd, and binary thinking, by which you agree with the accepted (media-led) view, and are either totally right or completely wrong, black and white.Imho
Sticks. said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agreed. There seems to be less and less of this, from any perspective, political or otherwise. Along with shallow, herd, and binary thinking, by which you agree with the accepted (media-led) view, and are either totally right or completely wrong, black and white.
won't somebody think of the fudgephobes!Bill said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
How is that any different to the reaction on here when someone has the temerity to post something remotely left of centre? The above examples from IH are of intolerance shown by deletion, cutting off, ostracising. PHers do, on the whole, tend to engage in discussion at least until the point that an interlocutor of any particular flavour starts trolling.
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