Are the left wing less tolerant of the views of others?
Discussion
Nanook said:
Randy Winkman said:
Exactly. Nobody is excluded for being straight and white.
What?All straight white men are being excluded for being straight and white.
It's an indefendible point of view, I'm not sure why you're trying.
Nanook said:
El stovey said:
Yes it is but does it disadvantage Mr R Hawk? He doesn’t need it,
If a hospital only gives treatment to sick people, are they discriminating? Why can’t healthy people have the same medicines and treatments as sick people? It’s because they don’t need it, of course.
To an extent it disadvantages all of us.If a hospital only gives treatment to sick people, are they discriminating? Why can’t healthy people have the same medicines and treatments as sick people? It’s because they don’t need it, of course.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 13th February 13:00
Replacing one type of inequality with another inequality is never the right answer.
I couldn't care less if a meeting is held to help disadvantaged people, only lets in people that need it.
Or if any resource is prioritised to people that need it more than others, I suppose it’s just about different people’s world view of what a society should or shouldn’t be doing.
Rovinghawk said:
El stovey said:
The defence is that straight white blokes aren’t disadvantaged, this group is to help disadvantaged people.
The stated purpose is to promote equality. Discrimination to achieve equality seems confused.I believe that equality is about treating everybody equally. How would you disagree?
chrispmartha said:
ZedLeg said:
Are people genuinely arguing that straight white men are being disadvantaged here?
How?
I see this quite a lot on here and if you think about it it's pretty insulting to people who have genuinely been disadvantaged.How?
Other posters either don’t think people are disadvantaged or shouldn’t get a foot up, even if they are disadvantaged.
Rovinghawk said:
El stovey said:
But they’re not promoting inequality.
They’re trying to help people suffering from inequality. Your group isn’t allowed to go because as you group you’re not a victim of inequality.
I'm not allowed to go therefore I am being treated unequally & am therefore a victim of discrimination if I wish to go. So yes, they are promoting inequality in this specific regard.They’re trying to help people suffering from inequality. Your group isn’t allowed to go because as you group you’re not a victim of inequality.
I realise your intentions/views mean well but I fundamentally disagree with them. You presumably disagree with my view which I think is based on a principle of equality.
Do you think the hospital is promoting inequality by not letting well people use these resources?
Rovinghawk said:
El stovey said:
Do you think you’re a victim of discrimination because you can’t go to a hospital and ask for medicine you don’t need or take a bed for the night because you feel like it?
Do you think the hospital is promoting inequality by not letting well people use these resources?
Using my earlier example of sickle cell anaemia, I'd think that the hospital was promoting inequality if I didn't have the same access when sick.Do you think the hospital is promoting inequality by not letting well people use these resources?
I don't NEED to attend that meeting but neither does anyone else.
The only difference is that you believe people are sick but don’t think there’s such a thing as people being disadvantaged.
You actually accept that people who need stuff should get it, when you can’t. So it’s not about equality, it’s about you not thinking any of those groups in the letter are disadvantaged.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 13th February 14:08
Nanook said:
El stovey said:
If that’s your view, I can see why you’re complaining.
I couldn't care less if a meeting is held to help disadvantaged people, only lets in people that need it.
Or if any resource is prioritised to people that need it more than others, I suppose it’s just about different people’s world view of what a society should or shouldn’t be doing.
Society should be inclusive to all.I couldn't care less if a meeting is held to help disadvantaged people, only lets in people that need it.
Or if any resource is prioritised to people that need it more than others, I suppose it’s just about different people’s world view of what a society should or shouldn’t be doing.
Certain people feel they've been excluded, so to resolve that, they set up their own group where they exclude people.
I'm not suggesting that as a result, straight white males are being disadvantaged. I said nothing of the sort.
But by fighting exclusion with more exclusion, it's my opinion that no-one wins.
They’re simply making a resource available to those that they think need it.
Like only giving medicine to sick people.
Or benefits to poor people.
Is this exclusion? Are other people being disadvantaged by not getting the same?
WinstonWolf said:
We could set up a group to discuss how white men perceive they're being left behind in the race for equality.
No blacks, gays or women. That's OK, surely?
Not according to you apparently.No blacks, gays or women. That's OK, surely?
I’d think that was great. You could possibly back this up with statistics to show empirically that there’s an issue here, if you needed to. As someone said above, there may be a need for this in some council estates full of poor while straight men?
Why not do it and help them if you think it’s an issue?
WinstonWolf said:
ZedLeg said:
WinstonWolf said:
We could set up a group to discuss how white men perceive they're being left behind in the race for equality.
No blacks, gays or women. That's OK, surely?
Go for it, I'm sure it will be hilarious to hear what the type of men who would go to that meeting have to say.No blacks, gays or women. That's OK, surely?
Rovinghawk said:
El stovey said:
This is evidence of an inclusive society, this is about helping the people that need help. This is exactly what a society should be doing to be inclusive.
Being inclusive by excluding people?El stovey said:
Is this exclusion?
Certain people are excluded so yes, this is exclusion.WinstonWolf said:
El stovey said:
WinstonWolf said:
We could set up a group to discuss how white men perceive they're being left behind in the race for equality.
No blacks, gays or women. That's OK, surely?
Not according to you apparently.No blacks, gays or women. That's OK, surely?
I’d think that was great. You could possibly back this up with statistics to show empirically that there’s an issue here, if you needed to. As someone said above, there may be a need for this in some council estates full of poor while straight men?
Why not do it and help them if you think it’s an issue?
If I’m holding an event to give food and clothes to victims of a flood. I’m happily going to say only victims of the flood are welcome to come and get free stuff.
Yes I’m excluding people. but surely you can see why?
Rovinghawk said:
El stovey said:
Sorry, it’s a bit pointless you keeping saying you can’t promote inclusion by excluding people from meetings and me saying it’s just focusing services and resources on people that actually need them.
Let's cut to the chase- IYHO is it acceptable to exclude certain parts of society based on race & gender? As it either is or isn't acceptable I think that asking for a simple yes/no is reasonable, as opposed to what FCR amusingly described as waffley b
ks.WinstonWolf said:
El stovey said:
WinstonWolf said:
Some feel they're being left behind in the race for equality. Yes I’m excluding people, but surely you can see why?
Do you feel that you are disadvantaged as a white bloke in the UK? I don’t, I feel like I’ve pretty much won the golden ticket. There aren’t special black people in estates benefits and worse ones for white people.
This letter that started the debate is about some labour group wanting to talk about equality with the group that they think are disadvantaged the most. I couldn’t care less who they think are or aren’t disadvantaged.
If they want to talk about equality with disadvantaged people, it’s up to them who they identify as disadvantaged.
If someone else honestly thinks white blokes in estates are the most disadvantaged group in the uk, then set up a group to talk to them and say only poor white blokes in estates can attend. If anyone like you says it’s discrimination then presumably they can point to evidence that these white blokes in estates are the ones needing help more than others.
Rovinghawk said:
El stovey said:
Do you feel that you are disadvantaged as a white bloke in the UK? I don’t,
Change the word from disadvantaged to discriminated and it's suddenly a different story.Funkycoldribena said:
El stovey said:
WinstonWolf said:
We could set up a group to discuss how white men perceive they're being left behind in the race for equality.
No blacks, gays or women. That's OK, surely?
Not according to you apparently.No blacks, gays or women. That's OK, surely?
I’d think that was great. You could possibly back this up with statistics to show empirically that there’s an issue here, if you needed to. As someone said above, there may be a need for this in some council estates full of poor while straight men?
Why not do it and help them if you think it’s an issue?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/07/pr...
It’s not racist or discrimination. The trouble is that white blokes are generally not thought to be in any disadvantaged group so creating one would be great.
Anyone who kicked off would be just like you lot complaining about there being groups just for disadvantaged women or minorities.
You’re complaining about people possibly complaining about what you’re actually doing right now.
WinstonWolf said:
El stovey said:
WinstonWolf said:
El stovey said:
WinstonWolf said:
Some feel they're being left behind in the race for equality. Yes I’m excluding people, but surely you can see why?
Do you feel that you are disadvantaged as a white bloke in the UK? I don’t, I feel like I’ve pretty much won the golden ticket. There aren’t special black people in estates benefits and worse ones for white people.
This letter that started the debate is about some labour group wanting to talk about equality with the group that they think are disadvantaged the most. I couldn’t care less who they think are or aren’t disadvantaged.
If they want to talk about equality with disadvantaged people, it’s up to them who they identify as disadvantaged.
If someone else honestly thinks white blokes in estates are the most disadvantaged group in the uk, then set up a group to talk to them and say only poor white blokes in estates can attend. If anyone like you says it’s discrimination then presumably they can point to evidence that these white blokes in estates are the ones needing help more than others.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/10/...
Certainly don’t go complaining about if other people set up groups helping who they think are most disadvantaged.
WinstonWolf said:
"You lot"? You mean people who have a different viewpoint to yours?
Positive discrimination has lead to acceptable discrimination. You can exclude people if they're white, you can't if they're BAME.
That's not equality by any stretch of the imagination.
Yes I’m saying you lot because it’s easier than naming you individually. Positive discrimination has lead to acceptable discrimination. You can exclude people if they're white, you can't if they're BAME.
That's not equality by any stretch of the imagination.
The labour group mentioned are allocating resources (their time) to where they think they are needed to balance inequality. If you think they’re missing important groups that are victims of inequality then take it up with them. Complaining about it on here is completely pointless,
Are you complaining that they’re not letting poor white poeple attend their meetings because that’s discrimination too if they add them and not you to the group, Or are you complaining that everyone should be able to attend young labour’s meetings about inequality? Because having meetings to help people suffering inequality and it being full of people not suffering from inequality is pointless.
Again, with you, I can’t be arsed continually typing the same thing.
Nanook said:
El stovey said:
Great so set up a group helping poor white blokesof you think they’re disadvantaged.
Certainly don’t go complaining about if other people set up groups helping who they think are most disadvantaged.
So the key to banishing inequality, is for everyone to stick up for their own kind.Certainly don’t go complaining about if other people set up groups helping who they think are most disadvantaged.
I find such posts to be a real juxtaposition.
Such complete stupidity, yet you managed to turn on a computer and ensure it was connected to the internet to share your ridiculous views.
I haven't said anyone should stick up for their own kind.
Some group have identified some people who they think could do with some help. They don’t want people joining their group if they think they don’t need help.I’m not sure what exactly you’re not happy about,
The key to banishing inequality is for people in groups suffering from inequality to be given help.
I can’t tell if you think the wrong group are being helped or nobody should be helped. Either way, you’re obviously getting upset about it, so I’ll leave you to it.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff