Are the left wing less tolerant of the views of others?

[esxste]

Everyone overestimates their tolerance, and everyone else seems intolerant when they don't accept your opinion as the correct opinion.

The extremes of left and right both have examples of atrocity in their history.

All it tells me is that putting people on one binary scale and judging them based on it is simplistic and dangerous.

People are like snowflakes... they follow the same patterns, but every one is unique.

[JagLover]

esxste said:

Everyone overestimates their tolerance, and everyone else seems intolerant when they don't accept your opinion as the correct opinion.

The extremes of left and right both have examples of atrocity in their history.

All it tells me is that putting people on one binary scale and judging them based on it is simplistic and dangerous.

People are like snowflakes... they follow the same patterns, but every one is unique.

In this case we are not really talking of the extremes of left & right. The intolerance of which has already been amply demonstrated by mass executions and death camps.

We are really talking about the "liberal" left who seem incapable of engaging in rational argument. A rather illiberal position I would have thought.

[Esseesse]

turbobloke said:

durbster said:

poster said:

The left, at least in the UK, can't seem to abide the opinion of anyone who disagrees, are utterly certain they have it all figured out ...

I feel for anyone with half a brain and a leftward inclination. It must be agony.

And there we have it, the unconscious hypocrisy displayed in just one post that sums up this thread.

If you feel for somebody, isn't that compassion rather than intolerance?

And with respect, are you not being rather intolerant of another PHer's viewpoint? You did mention hypocrisy.

durbster said:

If you think your claim to either the answers or the moral high-ground is based on being right or left wing, you're a fool.

Was there such a claim - to the answers for example?

Lord Donoughue would tell you given the chance that claiming the moral high ground is more typical of the Left than the Right, but he's only been among the UK left for his working lifetime and had meetings and exchanges with his political opponents for the same period.

I think either side at any one time claim the moral high ground (and therefore appear intolerant of the other). During my entire life, and in decades before this has been the left. Why? Because the left are winning. Why? Don't know, maybe because the left/socialism is idealistic, and this is attractive especially to those who don't think too much over hard headed pragmatism.

For example: Abortion... the right/conservative/church is/was against this. Their grounds are moral ones. I wouldn't be surprised if the right appeared intolerant to anybody who dared question abortion when it was the dominant school of thought. Now the reverse is true (and apparently the left are 'moral').

[0000]

Bill said:

turbobloke said:

If you feel for somebody, isn't that compassion rather than intolerance?

I'd have thought you of all people would know how to spell condescension.

Amusing, but it wasn't intended as such. Maybe everyone on the left feels their interests are and have been well served by the likes of Brown, Milliband, Corbyn, Balls, etc and I'm doing them a disservice to suggest their most prominent representatives are a waste of space. I doubt it though.

[durbster]

0000 said:

I didn't claim I had the answers, or that anyone on the right does so I've no idea where you think the hypocrisy is.

Sorry, probably wasn't clear but only my first sentence was relevant to the quote.

The rest of my post was speaking generally

[0000]

durbster said:

0000 said:

I didn't claim I had the answers, or that anyone on the right does so I've no idea where you think the hypocrisy is.

Sorry, probably wasn't clear but only my first sentence was relevant to the quote.

The rest of my post was speaking generally

Still haven't outlined it then...

[Lucas CAV]

turbobloke said:

Lucas CAV said:

Not exactly a huge sample size ...

How do you know how many lefties Lord Donoughue knows? He's met and worked with a lot, and clearly knows the type. The sample size behind Lord Donoughue's comment won't be small.

Lucas CAV said:

One could find a quotaion about pretty much any view or definition.
Presenting just one person's view as a "home truth" could be construed as bias..........

There's a significant problem with your claim. To be a home truth it has to come from home, the quotation would need to be home-based. The above comments represent exactly that situation. They're from the Left about the Left.

Just any old quotation would not do, not at all.

If an accurate observation from somebody rooted in the Left and working with the Left for many years is offered as a home truth, that's because it's a home truth. HTH

Edited by turbobloke on Monday 7th September 08:10

Keep it up, TB --

You do spout a load of old ste (have an ad hom on me)...

[turbobloke]

Lucas CAV said:

turbobloke said:

Lucas CAV said:

Not exactly a huge sample size ...

How do you know how many lefties Lord Donoughue knows? He's met and worked with a lot, and clearly knows the type. The sample size behind Lord Donoughue's comment won't be small.

Lucas CAV said:

One could find a quotaion about pretty much any view or definition.
Presenting just one person's view as a "home truth" could be construed as bias..........

There's a significant problem with your claim. To be a home truth it has to come from home, the quotation would need to be home-based. The above comments represent exactly that situation. They're from the Left about the Left.

Just any old quotation would not do, not at all.

If an accurate observation from somebody rooted in the Left and working with the Left for many years is offered as a home truth, that's because it's a home truth. HTH

Edited by turbobloke on Monday 7th September 08:10

Keep it up, TB --

You do spout a load of old ste (have an ad hom on me)...

That's mighty tolerant of you

Wrong, but mighty tolerant!

[Bill]

turbobloke said:

Article on Pew Research Centre study said:

A new study provides proof that liberals are more intolerant of different political ideologies than conservatives.

The right-wing has long complained that underneath the façade of “tolerance” and “diversity,” liberals are uniquely intolerant of different ideas — and the study of internet usage proves it.

44 percent with “consistently liberal” views would block or “unfriend” someone on a social network because of different political views. Only three in ten conservatives would do the same.

Article also said:

Pew Research did the study, which showed a massive bias in internet news sites. Of the 32 most used news sites, 25 are considered “left of center.”

The paper "Political Intolerance, Right and Left" from J T Crawford also shows that intolerance is associated less with Conservatism, not more.

Go on then, where's the link to the article you quote?

[otolith]

blindswelledrat said:

Which they are.
Crude, racist factually incorrect bks taken seriously by a certain type which have less than one GSCE between them all.
And it's bizarre this insistence on dividing left/right views with tolerance of scum.
I have never, and will never, vote labour and yet if I see a thick racist on Facebook then it's categorical that this person is not my friend.

Pretty much my take on it too; though I was a bit perplexed by the way some of my friends were getting involved in organised campaigns to get BF kicked off Facebook - not enough just to zap BF so that you never see any of their st, which is what I did, it was imperative that they were silenced.

[SpeedMattersNot]

It depends on the individual.

I've met some complete paper hat lefties, who hate any politicians opinions if they're right of centre, but also hate the current and past left wing politicians too. But I've also met some right pig-headed people right of centre, who are self-proclaimed 'realists' and see everything black and white.

I don't mind what side people are on when it comes to politics, as long as they don't treat their chosen party like a football team, which both the left and right are guilty of.

[turbobloke]

Bill said:

turbobloke said:

Article on Pew Research Centre study said:

A new study provides proof that liberals are more intolerant of different political ideologies than conservatives.

The right-wing has long complained that underneath the façade of “tolerance” and “diversity,” liberals are uniquely intolerant of different ideas — and the study of internet usage proves it.

44 percent with “consistently liberal” views would block or “unfriend” someone on a social network because of different political views. Only three in ten conservatives would do the same.

Article also said:

Pew Research did the study, which showed a massive bias in internet news sites. Of the 32 most used news sites, 25 are considered “left of center.”

The paper "Political Intolerance, Right and Left" from J T Crawford also shows that intolerance is associated less with Conservatism, not more.

Go on then, where's the link to the article you quote?

If I have info on file why on earth can you not find it by yourself? You have the paper title and author and details of the Pew study.

There's no need to link to everything; it changes nothing. I've never posted a single sentence by way of an abstract or extract or conclusion etc on PH during my time as a PHer that wasn't accurate and if anyone can prove otherwise they can post the evidence for all to see good luck with that.

[Bill]

turbobloke said:

If I have info on file why on earth can you not find it by yourself? You have the paper title and author and details of the study.

There's no need to link to everything; it changes nothing. I've never posted a single sentence by way of an extract or conclusion etc on PH during my time as a PHer that wasn't accurate and if anyone can prove otherwise they can post the evidence for all to see good luck with that.

The paper is easily found, I'm after the article you quote. I'll have another Google...

[turbobloke]

Hang on I think it's now clear what's going on.

Some people have no prior contact with an issue or the research surrounding it and assume others are in the same position.

Some of us get information first and form opinions afterwards. I didn't have to Google the references but if others do there's no shame in that.

So, info from my files stands unless and until somebody can prove otherwise. Enjoy!

[durbster]

0000 said:

I didn't claim I had the answers, or that anyone on the right does so I've no idea where you think the hypocrisy is.

You berate "the left" as being stupid because they:
... are utterly certain they have it all figured out ...

Before stating:
I feel for anyone with half a brain and a leftward inclination. It must be agony.

Which sounds to me like you're utterly certain they are wrong.

[Bill]

turbobloke said:

Hang on I think it's now clear what's going on.

Some people have no prior contact with an issue or the research surrounding it and assume others are in the same position.

Some of us get information first and form opinions afterwards. I didn't have to Google the references but if others do there's no shame in that.

So, info from my files stands unless and until somebody can prove otherwise. Enjoy!

The conclusion of the paper you cite is neutral on the subject:

Crawford et al said:

There is clearly disagreement among scholars regarding the relationship between political ideology and intolerance. While some argue that political intolerance is more endemic to the political right than the left (Altemeyer, 1996; Davis & Silver, 2004; Fisher et al., 1999; Lindner & Nosek, 2009), others have noted how those on both the political right and left can be intolerant of those with whom they disagree (Marcus et al., 1995; Suedfeld et al., 1994; Sullivan et al., 1981). Our findings clearly support the latter perspective: Across a variety of political issues and modes of political expression, both liberals and conservatives were intolerant of those with whom they disagreed, and such intolerance was explained by how threatening those political opponents were perceived.

Which rather puts a kibosh on the OP's proposition.

I don't see why you wouldn't link the article you quote, particularly as it breaks copyright and there's a sticky at the top of the forum on that very subject.

[durbster]

turbobloke said:

So, info from my files stands unless and until somebody can prove otherwise. Enjoy!

Sufficient for you maybe but best of luck convincing others with that approach.

I seem to recall looking into what was behind your carefully cherry-picked quotes before and finding it actually disproved the very point you were using it for, so you'll have to forgive me if I for one aren't willing to accept your evidence without question. The illusion is well crafted, I'll give you that.

Edit: and it looks like your research has been found lacking again.

Edited by durbster on Monday 7th September 14:12

[turbobloke]

durbster said:

turbobloke said:

So, info from my files stands unless and until somebody can prove otherwise. Enjoy!

Sufficient for you maybe but best of luck convincing others with that approach.

I don't need to convince anyone, what others choose to believe (based on evidence or fairytales) is down to them, I know what was posted and where it was from.

durbster said:

Edit: and it looks like your research has been found lacking again.

My research is lacking?

Or research by others that I cited?

There's a difference, so don't be coy - say more.

Thanks for yout sustained personal interest in what I post and where I get it from!

[turbobloke]

Bill said:

The conclusion of the paper you cite is neutral on the subject...

No it's not - your extract, assuming it's from the same paper, is too restricted and may be discussing previous research that the Crawford publication I cited updates. Try the Abstract:

Research recently published in 'Political Psychology' suggested that political intolerance is more strongly predicted by political conservatism than liberalism. Our findings challenge that conclusion.

So the paper's findings oppose the conclusion that Conservatism predicra intolerance more strongly. In other words it supports Conservatism as more tolerant in general.

durbster said:

Edit: and it looks like your research has been found lacking again.

Your enthusiuasm to try to score a point may have got the better of you. Finding and reading the source(s) for yourself is surely preferable to taking somebody's word for it, even when it's somebody on your side, indeed especially when they're on your side.

Bill said:

I don't see why you wouldn't link the article you quote, particularly as it breaks copyright and there's a sticky at the top of the forum on that very subject.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/236830480_Political_Intolerance_Right_and_Left

This seems to be it, though why I should have to waste time finding an online source still beats me, I had info from the paper some time ago and others are perfectly able to search online for themselves.

And then there's the Pew research which has the same outcome.

[andy-xr]

Britain First's messaging really catches the dummies, it's just, completely worded in a way to get agreement of what you'd hope are sane rational people but it's complete bks and I'd delete people off my Facebook who share the st that they come out with, leftie or not