Are the left wing less tolerant of the views of others?
Discussion
WinstonWolf said:
ZedLeg said:
Antifa as an idea goes back to the Spanish civil war but it’s a general collective term for a lot of different groups. Some are more into the the kind of rioting you see around G8 summits and so on than others.
Mostly it was just a banner to unite people counter protesting the far right.
There has definitely been an escalation over the last couple of years and from my point of view it’s largely been driven by the rise of violent right wing groups in various parts of the world.
Blaming the right for the lefts intolerant behaviour? M'kay.Mostly it was just a banner to unite people counter protesting the far right.
There has definitely been an escalation over the last couple of years and from my point of view it’s largely been driven by the rise of violent right wing groups in various parts of the world.
Hitler came about because of the treaty of Versailles and how post WW1 Germany was treated, Stalin and communism came about because of life under the Tsar and the ruling classes, the French Revolution was a reaction to inequality, etc etc
The Jeremy Corbyn-supporting campaign group Momentum welcomed her decision, accusing her of being a "no deal supporting, anti gay rights, fox hunting advocate".
The group tweeted: "She couldn't be more out of step with her Vauxhall constituents, and we look forward to backing a Corbyn supporting, socialist candidate in an open selection."
The reply above to Kate Hoey decision to stand down at next election
Also it seems some Labour members may have to announce shortly if they too are to stand down as the time limit to do so is up soon.
The group tweeted: "She couldn't be more out of step with her Vauxhall constituents, and we look forward to backing a Corbyn supporting, socialist candidate in an open selection."
The reply above to Kate Hoey decision to stand down at next election
Also it seems some Labour members may have to announce shortly if they too are to stand down as the time limit to do so is up soon.
Randy Winkman said:
Is this bloke left or right? Just a racist I guess.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-49652...
He’s far right. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-49652...
Johnnytheboy said:
Randy Winkman said:
Do you own "right-wing" in some way?
Anyway, how do you know what his views on other things are? You might share loads of views with him. So might I, for that matter.
Anyway, how do you know what his views on other things are? You might share loads of views with him. So might I, for that matter.
No.
It's a guess!
He’s obviously right wing. Whether you or I agree with him on anything is both unknown and irrelevant.
Supercilious Sid said:
Down and out said:
Poppiecock said:
Farage is leveraging similar processes - the only policies he's come up with for the Brexit party are those which most people look at and think 'what a thoroughly sensible idea'. They then trade the thoroughly sensible ideas against the extreme nut-job policies and come to a decision that you can forgive a bit of minority hating in order to pay off student debts.
Fascist Extremists don't initially take to the streets in shiny uniforms with guns. They start the process with those sensible policies and before you know it have taken control and are oppressing anyone they don't like.
Bibble, bibble, bibble.Fascist Extremists don't initially take to the streets in shiny uniforms with guns. They start the process with those sensible policies and before you know it have taken control and are oppressing anyone they don't like.
bobbo89 said:
otolith said:
"The Left is more venal and has more antipathy to the opposition than the other way round. "
That's because of this way of thinking;
"The Labour Party is a moral crusade, or it is nothing."
If you disagree, you are not just wrong, you are a bad person.
I think it was a John Cleese clip I've seen where he's talking about how having enemies is as good as it allows you to think that all the badness in the world is in your enemies and that all the goodness is in you. That's because of this way of thinking;
"The Labour Party is a moral crusade, or it is nothing."
If you disagree, you are not just wrong, you are a bad person.
Without an ideology that others can disagree with they'd be nothing as they wouldn't have an enemy to label as the baddie!
People grouping another group together as the enemy (lefties) and labelling them with common characteristics and behaviours
Murph7355 said:
Human nature. We ignore it at our peril...we are nothing but animals who think we're intelligent, yet are driven by baser instincts...and try to convince ourselves we aren't 
It’s not really. Human nature is wanting to protect your family and tribe from danger.This is messed up human nature where people are feeling the same tribal affinity but instead of to natural groups like family and tribe it’s to completely artificial constructs like country or political parties, ideology, and religion etc
Randy Winkman said:
AstonZagato said:
My gut feel is that most moderates to the right would have just as much of a problem with extremists on their own side as they would with extremists on the left. Moderates on the left feel obligated to be apologists for extremists on the left.
Ask a Tory what he/she thinks of the EDL and you will get (in the main) a negative/horrified opinion. Ask a Labourite for opinion on communism and you'll more likely get a neutral or even positive view (hence Mao "did more good than harm" and shadow ministers campaigning in front of pictures of Lenin). It is difficult to imagine a Tory standing in front of a picture of Hitler or Mussolini.
As I say, a gut feeling (and I'm sure there are exceptions).
As a "lefty" I'd just like to say that I'm "horrified" by communism. So perhaps you are just seeing what you want to?Ask a Tory what he/she thinks of the EDL and you will get (in the main) a negative/horrified opinion. Ask a Labourite for opinion on communism and you'll more likely get a neutral or even positive view (hence Mao "did more good than harm" and shadow ministers campaigning in front of pictures of Lenin). It is difficult to imagine a Tory standing in front of a picture of Hitler or Mussolini.
As I say, a gut feeling (and I'm sure there are exceptions).
AstonZagato said:
Like John McDonnell campaigning in front of Lenin or Abbott defending Mao?
McDonnell and Abbott are both idiots. McDonnell especially is a dangerous ideological idiot.TBF to Abbott what she apparently said was.
“Comments about Mao Zedong
In 2008, during a BBC One This Week interview between Abbott, Michael Portillo and Andrew Neil about who was history's worst dictator, Abbott said about the Chinese leader Mao Zedong: "I suppose some people will judge that on balance Mao did more good than harm... He led his country from feudalism, he helped to defeat the Japanese and he left his country on the verge of the great economic success they are having now." She finished by saying: "I was just putting the case for Mao."
It was a debate about who was history’s worst dictator not whether Mao was a good guy or not. I think you will still find people in China who do think that mao did more good than harm so it’s possibly not as thick as it sounds.
Abbott is an idiot though and has said plenty of stupid things like her comments on black mums wanting to do the best for their kids (or whatever it was) so I think I’m giving her too much benefit of the doubt.
I think Mao was history’s worst dictator myself and did infinitely more harm than good and then Stalin and Hitler second and third on the list.
s2art said:
Part of the problem with lefties is that they are convinced they are morally right. Lewis said:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
Isn’t the problem actually that you’re categorising large groups of people with similar characteristics, so you can glibly label them as “the left” as though they’re a Borg like collective. “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
There’s all kinds of people who are right or left leaning in their politics who are all very different and have different motivations and characteristics even though they might vote the same way.
R Mutt said:
Especially valid in the perpetual state of hatred against the rich, as the narrative is that they have taken from the poor.
Of course the rich may be intolerant to the feckless but if one simply hasn't earnt money, than that is the more direct consequence of poverty, as opposed to the oppression and theft the left make it out to be.
We see the same when dissatisfaction leads to blaming other groups like foreigners or the EU etc Of course the rich may be intolerant to the feckless but if one simply hasn't earnt money, than that is the more direct consequence of poverty, as opposed to the oppression and theft the left make it out to be.
Blaming the rich or the EU, or the right/left (or any other group) for your unhappiness is simply reactive thinking and a victim mindset and not taking responsibility for your own situation.
Randy Winkman said:
Johnnytheboy said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8745811...
Tom Utley on Grayson Perry's comments on this topic.
Oh, but it's a DM link, so I'm probably a Nazi.
I guess that all newspapers have a hierarchy. For the Mail transvestites come way ahead of lefties. The Torygraph wheeled out a black school governor to have a go at lefties yesterday. Tom Utley on Grayson Perry's comments on this topic.
Oh, but it's a DM link, so I'm probably a Nazi.
How can they be against minorities if they have them in their party? better still if they’re saying lefties are intolerant?
Unsurprisingly that article and artists comments about lefties have been in a few threads on here as evidence of the tolerance of ‘the right’ and what’s wrong with ‘the left’
I knew a black guy that was a UKIP candidate and he was always in the media.
I think that’s why priti Patel is so popular and still has a job, being foreign looking and really into brexit and law and order and disliking foreigners.
Johnnytheboy said:
amusingduck said:
El stovey said:
I think that’s why priti Patel is so popular and still has a job, being foreign looking and really into brexit and law and order and disliking foreigners.
Foreign looking?The threads biggest right wingers trying to pretend to be offended, by irony.
A Winner Is You said:
El stovey said:
Any minority especially LGTBTQ BAME (or any other minority group acronym) that are right wingers are gold dust to the mail or the right wing parties.
How can they be against minorities if they have them in their party? better still if they’re saying lefties are intolerant?
Unsurprisingly that article and artists comments about lefties have been in a few threads on here as evidence of the tolerance of ‘the right’ and what’s wrong with ‘the left’
I knew a black guy that was a UKIP candidate and he was always in the media.
I think that’s why priti Patel is so popular and still has a job, being foreign looking and really into brexit and law and order and disliking foreigners.
It's almost as if people in said minority groups are individuals, capable of forming their own opinions and political views.How can they be against minorities if they have them in their party? better still if they’re saying lefties are intolerant?
Unsurprisingly that article and artists comments about lefties have been in a few threads on here as evidence of the tolerance of ‘the right’ and what’s wrong with ‘the left’
I knew a black guy that was a UKIP candidate and he was always in the media.
I think that’s why priti Patel is so popular and still has a job, being foreign looking and really into brexit and law and order and disliking foreigners.
Priti Patel is an idiot, there’s no way she should have a cabinet position. Same with Abbott.
Same with this crossdressing artists comments about lefties and right wingers, the Mail wouldn’t give a toss if Jacob Rees Mogg had said it, it’s the fact that it’s someone perceived to be in a minority that somehow gives it more power, that’s also why the article has been shared on here a few times too.
Look even crossdressing artists (that’s a lefty woke modern world thing) think the right are more tolerant! That’ll show ‘em we’re not racist or intolerant or whatever.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 18th September 10:12
Randy Winkman said:
Johnnytheboy said:
Randy Winkman said:
I guess that all newspapers have a hierarchy. For the Mail transvestites come way ahead of lefties. The Torygraph wheeled out a black school governor to have a go at lefties yesterday.
Yes you're probably right. Did you read the original Grayson Perry interview? Quite thought provoking as often the case with him.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...
Conservatives not that tolerant about breaking the rule of six anyway.
andymadmak said:
Randy Winkman said:
Here's a nice article about how tolerant the right wing are:
https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremi...
I summary: In the US right wing extremists have killed 329 people in the last 25 years whilst left wing extremists have killed none.
You need to read that article again, because that is not what it says. It says ANTIFA have not killed anyone, but that other left wing groups have. https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremi...
I summary: In the US right wing extremists have killed 329 people in the last 25 years whilst left wing extremists have killed none.
otolith said:
Your summary of the article is wrong, it says that anti-fascists as a subset of the left have killed none.
If you pick your time and place, you can choose whichever side you like. South and Central America gives you a smörgåsbord of nasty murderous b
ds across the political spectrum. Spain gives you ETA (left wing anti-fascist murderous bds), or if you go further back, Franco (right wing fascist murderous bds). Ireland had its share of left wing murderous bds (the IRA wanted a socialist republic), Germany had the Red Army Faction, etc.
Political violence is a feature of extremism, not of specific ideology. It's fair to say that America recently has had more problems with violent right wing extremism than left, but it's just a data point.
Exactly. There are polarised intolerant people on all sides of the political spectrum getting worse as you move away from the middle to the extremists on the far left and right. If you pick your time and place, you can choose whichever side you like. South and Central America gives you a smörgåsbord of nasty murderous b
ds across the political spectrum. Spain gives you ETA (left wing anti-fascist murderous bds), or if you go further back, Franco (right wing fascist murderous bds). Ireland had its share of left wing murderous bds (the IRA wanted a socialist republic), Germany had the Red Army Faction, etc. Political violence is a feature of extremism, not of specific ideology. It's fair to say that America recently has had more problems with violent right wing extremism than left, but it's just a data point.
The thread is basically a load of b
ks started by someone intolerantly trying to glibly label those that disagree with their politics as intolerant. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff