Syria - whose side are we on

[Derek Smith]

saaby93 said:

Maybe this map will help



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34432440

What's the colour for hospitals?

[Cobnapint]

aeropilot said:

Cobnapint said:

Putin - the lies keep on coming don't they.

Western political leaders have made a right hash of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya over the past 14 years and have so far got pretty much nothing right either when it comes to Syria. They don't have a clue.

The West didn't screw up Iraq, Afghan or Libya - the f*ckhead islamist groups did.

We thought they'd welcome freedom, democracy and all that goes with it. Seems religion got the upper hand. It's not our fault they haven't evolved enough yet to pick up the baton.

[Foppo]

According to you they haven't envolved.Best for us to leave them alone then.Leave their oil or whatever is under the ground.Stop selling them killing machines and wind them up against each other.Brown people fighting brown people.Now they are on the move because we are innocent.

[RYH64E]

Cobnapint said:

The West didn't screw up Iraq, Afghan or Libya - the f*ckhead islamist groups did.

We thought they'd welcome freedom, democracy and all that goes with it. Seems religion got the upper hand. It's not our fault they haven't evolved enough yet to pick up the baton.

Those f*ckhead Islamist groups that were our friends and allies when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan?

I don't think that the Russians have a worse record than the West when it comes to backing the wrong side. Allies today, terrorists tomorrow, what marks the turning point?

[Murph7355]

Cobnapint said:

The West didn't screw up Iraq, Afghan or Libya - the f*ckhead islamist groups did.

We thought they'd welcome freedom, democracy and all that goes with it. Seems religion got the upper hand. It's not our fault they haven't evolved enough yet to pick up the baton.

The West have been screwing up that region for over 150yrs. Your second sentence is why - we've consistently tried to impose a way of life on them that they aren't interested in by and large. We've done that because we've wanted something we understand in the region so that we can exploit its resources.

You can't defeat ideologies with conventional warfare. And the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome each time...

[Scuffers]

Derek Smith said:

What's the colour for hospitals?

very good Derek, and would you like to show the world your advanced insight into how you know it was subjected to a US air-strike?

Look, I am not saying it was not the result of american action, but look at the new feeds, do those buildings look like they have been subjected to aerial bombing?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

RYH64E said:

Cobnapint said:

The West didn't screw up Iraq, Afghan or Libya - the f*ckhead islamist groups did.

We thought they'd welcome freedom, democracy and all that goes with it. Seems religion got the upper hand. It's not our fault they haven't evolved enough yet to pick up the baton.

Those f*ckhead Islamist groups that were our friends and allies when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan?

Indeed. Even James Bond sided with them, in The Living Daylights

[Axionknight]

Never trust a Jock.

O wait.....

[aeropilot]

Cobnapint said:

aeropilot said:

Cobnapint said:

Putin - the lies keep on coming don't they.

Western political leaders have made a right hash of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya over the past 14 years and have so far got pretty much nothing right either when it comes to Syria. They don't have a clue.

The West didn't screw up Iraq, Afghan or Libya - the f*ckhead islamist groups did.

We thought they'd welcome freedom, democracy and all that goes with it.

You should think about a career in politics - as you're about as clued up on the situation as our 'esteemed' leaders have been for the past few decades.

[Derek Smith]

Scuffers said:

Derek Smith said:

What's the colour for hospitals?

very good Derek, and would you like to show the world your advanced insight into how you know it was subjected to a US air-strike?

Look, I am not saying it was not the result of american action, but look at the new feeds, do those buildings look like they have been subjected to aerial bombing?

My understanding is that some American colonel said:

“US forces conducted an airstrike in Kunduz city at 2:15am [local time] on 3 October against individuals threatening the force. The strike may have resulted in collateral damage to a nearby medical facility. This incident is under investigation."

And that, from Médecins Sans Frontières:

“The bombing continued for more than 30 minutes after American and Afghan military officials in Kabul and Washington were first informed. MSF urgently seeks clarity on exactly what took place and how this terrible event could have happened.”

There have been a number of reports from the ground about casualties. I'm not sure what one can tell either way from the condition of the building.

Collateral damage, eh?

The charity of Médecins Sans Frontières is supported by close members of my family and I admire those who give their life to the organisation, and hope that their dedication will be considered by the combatants. I know what the first casualty of war is but my experiences with MSF lead me to believe them before politicians.

I accept that first reports might well be wrong. One would have to be an idiot to believe otherwise. However, it would appear that people have died. That both volunteer medical staff and patients have been killed/injured. The Americans would seem to be happy to accept that they were bombing for some time in the area.

If there was an alternative argument as to the causes of the deaths and injuries, then I was, at the time of my post, unaware of them. A search in the last 10 minutes hasn't revealed them either. At the moment I'm fairly confident of my conclusions, but that does not mean further information would not change it.

However, I would like to point out that this confidence did not stop me from staying any accusation of blame in my post. I didn't identify the US.

[No Bend]

Scuffers said:

Derek Smith said:

What's the colour for hospitals?

very good Derek, and would you like to show the world your advanced insight into how you know it was subjected to a US air-strike?

Look, I am not saying it was not the result of american action, but look at the new feeds, do those buildings look like they have been subjected to aerial bombing?

Can't see Scuffers being listed as a munitions or bombing specialist on his resume. Maybe it was bombed, I can't tell.

Edited by No Bend on Sunday 18th October 10:53

[Cobnapint]

China could be about to bring some fireworks to the party......

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/china.all.se...

[Halb]

Cobnapint said:

China could be about to bring some fireworks to the party......

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/china.all.se...

The Middle East...bringing peoples together..well...the fiendish Chinese and the inscrutable Russians anyway, and that's almost as big as the Arabs and the Jews!

[Halb]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

RYH64E said:

Cobnapint said:

The West didn't screw up Iraq, Afghan or Libya - the f*ckhead islamist groups did.

We thought they'd welcome freedom, democracy and all that goes with it. Seems religion got the upper hand. It's not our fault they haven't evolved enough yet to pick up the baton.

Those f*ckhead Islamist groups that were our friends and allies when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan?

Indeed. Even James Bond sided with them, in The Living Daylights

Rambo 3 is always an enjoyable watch these days...

[aeropilot]

Cobnapint said:

China could be about to bring some fireworks to the party......

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/china.all.se...

Cuba getting involved as well supposedly....

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/14/cuban-mili...

[Halb]

Interesting site.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

[Countdown]

Cobnapint said:

We thought they'd welcome freedom, democracy and all that goes with it. Seems religion got the upper hand. It's not our fault they haven't evolved enough yet to pick up the baton.

Did we bollocxs!

We just wanted our own flavour of "Dictator" in power. We couldn't give a flying fig about "freedom, democracy and all that goes with it...".

[scherzkeks]

Cobnapint said:

The West didn't screw up Iraq, Afghan or Libya - the f*ckhead islamist groups did.

We thought they'd welcome freedom, democracy and all that goes with it. Seems religion got the upper hand. It's not our fault they haven't evolved enough yet to pick up the baton.

The abject stupidity contained within this post cannot be expressed in words.

[BlackLabel]

Borrowed from here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/syri...

President Assad (who is bad) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels (who are good) started winning.

But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State (who are definitely bad) and some continued to support democracy (who are still good).

So the Americans (who are good) started bombing Islamic State (who are bad) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels (who are good) so they could fight Assad (who is still bad) which was good.

By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS (which is a good thing) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.

Getting back to Syria. President Putin (bad, as he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium) has decided to back Assad (who is still bad) by attacking IS (who are also bad) which is sort of a good thing?

But Putin (still bad) thinks the Syrian Rebels (who are good) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans (who are good) who are busy backing and arming the rebels (who are also good).

Now Iran (who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad (still bad) as are the Russians (bad) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

So, a Coalition of Assad (still bad) Putin (extra bad) and the Iranians (good, but in a bad sort of way) are going to attack IS (who are bad) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels (who are good) which is (bad).

Now the British (obviously good, except Corbyn who is probably bad) and the Americans (also good) cannot attack Assad (still bad) for fear of upsetting Putin (bad) and Iran (good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS (who are super bad).

So Assad (bad) is now probably good, being better than IS (no real choice there) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them good. America (still good) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin (now good) and that mad ayatollah in Iran (also good) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS (still the only constantly bad group).

To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims (Assad and Iran) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as (good)(duh!).

Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal (might have a point) and hence we will be seen as (bad).

So now we have America (now bad) and Britain (also bad) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels (bad) many of whom are looking to IS (good / bad) for support against Assad(now good) who, along with Iran (also good) and Putin (also now, unbelievably, good) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?

This should clear it all up for you. Just so you know - I am not taking any questions on this subject!

[aeropilot]

Fairly concise and accurate summation of the clusterfk situation