Half a million VWs recalled, sneaky emissions software.
Discussion
MarshPhantom said:
Ayahuasca said:
As a 'cheat' VW owner, why would you take your car in for the recall?
It will come out with worse performance!
Anyone buying your car may want to know if it's been recalled and will use as a bargaining tool if not?It will come out with worse performance!
Engine blows up "Sorry Sir you didn't have the recall"
CorbynForTheBin said:
fido said:
CorbynForTheBin said:
It'll be interesting to see how a 'fixed' car drives compared to current. I have a feeling this is going to be a much bigger issue for VW and they know it, we don't...
Raising a provision is one thing, chopping R&D etc is f
king huge.
Easier for them to buy back the cars, scrap them or sell them onto a country that doesn't give a NoX, and offer the existing owners a fair amount or part-ex. If I were VW's accountants I would build in these costs now ..Raising a provision is one thing, chopping R&D etc is f
king huge.I wonder which R&D is gone, that would be interesting...
The EU cars all have SCR systems, just not at high enough dosing to meet real world driving conditions, so a 'simple' re-map will sort this, the next problem will be the cars performance hit and the additional consumption of Ad-Blue which will require topping up more often than service intervals.
not forgetting Adblue costs somewhat more than diesel!
V8A*ndy said:
MarshPhantom said:
Ayahuasca said:
As a 'cheat' VW owner, why would you take your car in for the recall?
It will come out with worse performance!
Anyone buying your car may want to know if it's been recalled and will use as a bargaining tool if not?It will come out with worse performance!
Engine blows up "Sorry Sir you didn't have the recall"
MarshPhantom said:
V8A*ndy said:
MarshPhantom said:
Ayahuasca said:
As a 'cheat' VW owner, why would you take your car in for the recall?
It will come out with worse performance!
Anyone buying your car may want to know if it's been recalled and will use as a bargaining tool if not?It will come out with worse performance!
Engine blows up "Sorry Sir you didn't have the recall"
Have it done don't have it done. It's a f
king mess regardless.Scuffers said:
as I understand it, the US is a bit different, they left off the AD-Blue after treatment SCR systems from these cars, adding it is going to be a right PITA and cost to them, no amount of re-map will solve that one.
The EU cars all have SCR systems, just not at high enough dosing to meet real world driving conditions, so a 'simple' re-map will sort this, the next problem will be the cars performance hit and the additional consumption of Ad-Blue which will require topping up more often than service intervals.
not forgetting Adblue costs somewhat more than diesel!
Buy-back may be the only option for the US then...The EU cars all have SCR systems, just not at high enough dosing to meet real world driving conditions, so a 'simple' re-map will sort this, the next problem will be the cars performance hit and the additional consumption of Ad-Blue which will require topping up more often than service intervals.
not forgetting Adblue costs somewhat more than diesel!
Let's face it, the US will just tell VW what to do (which will include 'bend over')
Ayahuasca said:
As a 'cheat' VW owner, why would you take your car in for the recall?
It will come out with worse performance!
I'd guess all the lease companies will just get it done to avoid any warranty issues and that of the remainder the vast majority of people who buy TDi's have no interest in cars or performance and will just be happy with their free keyring and cup of VW coffee. A tiny group of PH types will refuse the recall and we'll see their ad's in autotrader in a few years with the mythical 'high power' 147bhp engine, which no one else will want.It will come out with worse performance!
CorbynForTheBin said:
Scuffers said:
as I understand it, the US is a bit different, they left off the AD-Blue after treatment SCR systems from these cars, adding it is going to be a right PITA and cost to them, no amount of re-map will solve that one.
The EU cars all have SCR systems, just not at high enough dosing to meet real world driving conditions, so a 'simple' re-map will sort this, the next problem will be the cars performance hit and the additional consumption of Ad-Blue which will require topping up more often than service intervals.
not forgetting Adblue costs somewhat more than diesel!
Buy-back may be the only option for the US then...The EU cars all have SCR systems, just not at high enough dosing to meet real world driving conditions, so a 'simple' re-map will sort this, the next problem will be the cars performance hit and the additional consumption of Ad-Blue which will require topping up more often than service intervals.
not forgetting Adblue costs somewhat more than diesel!
Let's face it, the US will just tell VW what to do (which will include 'bend over')
VW would be better just to give people a new car rather than a buy back. They will want to keep customers and with the far reaching laws of the US it might just be a lot cheaper.
I doubt the update will be anything other than the technicality of removing the cheat logic in most markets - there is no reason the UK cars won't pass the UK emissions tests as they stood at the time of production regardless of the theoretical presence of the cheat, neither EURO5 nor 6 VW Group cars are worse than other makes in drive by emissions checks (they all fail badly but are regardless very clean) - so unless all the other makes are cheating too.........
USA is probably different.
USA is probably different.
Mr GrimNasty said:
I doubt the update will be anything other than the technicality of removing the cheat logic in most markets - there is no reason the UK cars won't pass the UK emissions tests as they stood at the time of production regardless of the theoretical presence of the cheat, neither EURO5 nor 6 VW Group cars are worse than other makes in drive by emissions checks (they all fail badly but are regardless very clean) - so unless all the other makes are cheating too.........
USA is probably different.
There has to be more to this story for the UK. The cheat software has certainly done something very wrong even in our market.USA is probably different.
V8A*ndy said:
There has to be more to this story for the UK. The cheat software has certainly done something very wrong even in our market.
I would assume that no regularly driven car has triggered the cheat in day to day driving. As I understand it, the test it had to comply to is such a specific set of parameters that it was able to notice when it was being tested and know when to run the cheat map.Another issue will be all the remapped cars no doubt being found out and/or being reset to a standard map!
Scuffers said:
fblm said:
You're wasting your time with this one. It's been explained to him half a dozen times and he still doesn't get it.
and this is why it's going to be hard to push a criminal case against VWin the US there law covers emissions defeat devices and their SW comes under this, not sure the same is true of EU emissions law.
next up is the definition of an emissions defeat device, as you could argue that an exhaust treatment system is a defeat device...
voyds9 said:
V8A*ndy said:
and as already posted.
Engine blows up "Sorry Sir you didn't have the recall"
So they are inherently unreliable now?Engine blows up "Sorry Sir you didn't have the recall"
Scuffers said:
as I understand it, the US is a bit different, they left off the AD-Blue after treatment SCR systems from these cars, adding it is going to be a right PITA and cost to them, no amount of re-map will solve that one.
The EU cars all have SCR systems, just not at high enough dosing to meet real world driving conditions, so a 'simple' re-map will sort this, the next problem will be the cars performance hit and the additional consumption of Ad-Blue which will require topping up more often than service intervals.
not forgetting Adblue costs somewhat more than diesel!
Are you sure that all the EU5 compliant cars are fitted with SCR and Ad-Blue? I thought that only EU6 cars were so equipped in Europe.The EU cars all have SCR systems, just not at high enough dosing to meet real world driving conditions, so a 'simple' re-map will sort this, the next problem will be the cars performance hit and the additional consumption of Ad-Blue which will require topping up more often than service intervals.
not forgetting Adblue costs somewhat more than diesel!
Scuffers said:
RYH64E said:
Are you sure that all the EU5 compliant cars are fitted with SCR and Ad-Blue? I thought that only EU6 cars were so equipped in Europe.
Not, easy to check current EU6 cars... not so easy to check non current ones (consider some new stuff is still only EU 5...)RYH64E said:
I'm pretty sure that a lot of EU based VWs due to be recalled aren't fitted with SCR and Adblue systems. If such systems weren't fitted in the US where the NOx limits were much lower than our EU5 requirements why would they have been routinely fitted to EU cars?
Not sure you have this right?US currently the limits of the same as eu4 was, to get through eu5 I would suggest is impossible without some level of AdBlue usage
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