Half a million VWs recalled, sneaky emissions software.
Discussion
RYH64E said:
///ajd said:
I wonder if it will be mandatory, or whether the dealer will say 'here is the free mod, if you 'really' want it, wink, wink'
As if they're not in enough trouble already, fiddling the recall would surely be unwise?But if I had 2.0 TDi VW now with say 180ps, I'd be pretty nervous about how it will drive after its 'emissions reduction upgrade', wouldn't you?
It will be very interesting to see what they do, and how owners react.
///ajd said:
RYH64E said:
///ajd said:
I wonder if it will be mandatory, or whether the dealer will say 'here is the free mod, if you 'really' want it, wink, wink'
As if they're not in enough trouble already, fiddling the recall would surely be unwise?But if I had 2.0 TDi VW now with say 180ps, I'd be pretty nervous about how it will drive after its 'emissions reduction upgrade', wouldn't you?
It will be very interesting to see what they do, and how owners react.
I don't see how this problem can be fixed by a software upgrade, they can maybe comply with emissions requirements by de-tuning the engine, but why should customers accept that?
///ajd said:
But if I had 2.0 TDi VW now with say 180ps, I'd be pretty nervous about how it will drive after its 'emissions reduction upgrade', wouldn't you?
Very! It will be interesting to see what gets fvcked up and how badly. My moneys on a small drop in mpg and a horrible mess of a torque curve.I can't see the point of remapping anything, the vast majority of these cars will only be on the roads for 7-10 years, the 'worse case' emissions aren't serious (in any rational assessment of pollution risk), private diesel cars make up a minor fraction of city pollution where there is a supposed issue (18% of NOx according to our gov., even less PMs), and these 'rogue' cars represent only another fraction of that.
It's just a pointless case of being seen to do something. The powers that be have got themselves all twisted up in the vastly exaggerated risks of diesel. The sensible thing would be affected companies to pay a regulatory fine. Stop further sales until emissions comply or raise the ridiculously low limits to make what is practically possible on today's engines legal.
If remapping makes them crap the customers will have to be compensated too, and private remapping will have to be illegal and enforced, or else everyone will just get a tuning map put on anyway.
It's just a pointless case of being seen to do something. The powers that be have got themselves all twisted up in the vastly exaggerated risks of diesel. The sensible thing would be affected companies to pay a regulatory fine. Stop further sales until emissions comply or raise the ridiculously low limits to make what is practically possible on today's engines legal.
If remapping makes them crap the customers will have to be compensated too, and private remapping will have to be illegal and enforced, or else everyone will just get a tuning map put on anyway.
Mr GrimNasty said:
I can't see the point of remapping anything, the vast majority of these cars will only be on the roads for 7-10 years, the 'worse case' emissions aren't serious (in any rational assessment of pollution risk), private diesel cars make up a minor fraction of city pollution where there is a supposed issue (18% of NOx according to our gov., even less PMs), and these 'rogue' cars represent only another fraction of that.
It's just a pointless case of being seen to do something. The powers that be have got themselves all twisted up in the vastly exaggerated risks of diesel. The sensible thing would be affected companies to pay a regulatory fine. Stop further sales until emissions comply or raise the ridiculously low limits to make what is practically possible on today's engines legal.
If remapping makes them crap the customers will have to be compensated too, and private remapping will have to be illegal and enforced, or else everyone will just get a tuning map put on anyway.
I agree with everything except the bit in bold. If a significant number of diesels are pumping out 30-40 times more NOx than previously believed the proportion could be WAY higher than that. It's just a pointless case of being seen to do something. The powers that be have got themselves all twisted up in the vastly exaggerated risks of diesel. The sensible thing would be affected companies to pay a regulatory fine. Stop further sales until emissions comply or raise the ridiculously low limits to make what is practically possible on today's engines legal.
If remapping makes them crap the customers will have to be compensated too, and private remapping will have to be illegal and enforced, or else everyone will just get a tuning map put on anyway.
fblm said:
I agree with everything except the bit in bold. If a significant number of diesels are pumping out 30-40 times more NOx than previously believed the proportion could be WAY higher than that.
Aye. 18% on official data. if they are pumping out 40 times more then it will be the overwhelming majority (80%+)Luckily VW have a believable board member explaining to the press that the board only found out about the scandal moments before the press did. Riiiighht, of course I believe you Mr Lies, Mr Olaf Lies....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34397426
I'm still not sure that I see this is a criminal act. Some presumably clever engineers were given parameters to work to, I.e. They knew their engine had to meet X, y and z criteria during a test and they came up with a solution to ensure it did. I guess people say it's deceitful, I think it showed cunning, but guess I'm in a minority. At least the pub banter will change from how unreliable my alfa is to just how dirty is your golf for a few weeks until it's all been forgotten....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34397426
I'm still not sure that I see this is a criminal act. Some presumably clever engineers were given parameters to work to, I.e. They knew their engine had to meet X, y and z criteria during a test and they came up with a solution to ensure it did. I guess people say it's deceitful, I think it showed cunning, but guess I'm in a minority. At least the pub banter will change from how unreliable my alfa is to just how dirty is your golf for a few weeks until it's all been forgotten....
chrisga said:
Luckily VW have a believable board member explaining to the press that the board only found out about the scandal moments before the press did. Riiiighht, of course I believe you Mr Lies, Mr Olaf Lies....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34397426
I'm still not sure that I see this is a criminal act. Some presumably clever engineers were given parameters to work to, I.e. They knew their engine had to meet X, y and z criteria during a test and they came up with a solution to ensure it did. I guess people say it's deceitful, I think it showed cunning, but guess I'm in a minority. At least the pub banter will change from how unreliable my alfa is to just how dirty is your golf for a few weeks until it's all been forgotten....
"Mr Lies told the BBC:" Apt name!http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34397426
I'm still not sure that I see this is a criminal act. Some presumably clever engineers were given parameters to work to, I.e. They knew their engine had to meet X, y and z criteria during a test and they came up with a solution to ensure it did. I guess people say it's deceitful, I think it showed cunning, but guess I'm in a minority. At least the pub banter will change from how unreliable my alfa is to just how dirty is your golf for a few weeks until it's all been forgotten....
Also, if you ask me its cunningly deceitful to the majority, so your minority just got smaller.
I have a 180 Sportline so quiet pi55ed about the whole affair.
Jimboka said:
Will be good when the actual facts come out, rather than uninformed speculation and outrage whipped up during slow news day..
And again good to see some people are prepared to wait for the facts and then make their own decision. There's a lot of people spouting stuff seemingly authoritative quotes and ignoring the caveat words like "we presume" "it seems" "possibilities that" and many more. All just speculation.///ajd said:
But if I had 2.0 TDi VW now with say 180ps, I'd be pretty nervous about how it will drive after its 'emissions reduction upgrade', wouldn't you?
- But are you obliged to take it back to VW to be 'upgraded' anyway? Especially if there's a suggestion that performance or fuel consumption could worsen? Gareth1974 said:
- But are you obliged to take it back to VW to be 'upgraded' anyway? Especially if there's a suggestion that performance or fuel consumption could worsen?
As far as I can recall you are not even obliged to take your car back for a safety recall. It's your property and you get to decide what happens to it. Unless you are outlawed from using it on the road, then I guess your options are have the "upgrade" or get VW to buy the car back as it's not fit for purpose and wasn't fit at the point of sale.Munter said:
Gareth1974 said:
- But are you obliged to take it back to VW to be 'upgraded' anyway? Especially if there's a suggestion that performance or fuel consumption could worsen?
As far as I can recall you are not even obliged to take your car back for a safety recall. It's your property and you get to decide what happens to it. Unless you are outlawed from using it on the road, then I guess your options are have the "upgrade" or get VW to buy the car back as it's not fit for purpose and wasn't fit at the point of sale.Whilst it focusses on the US market, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the same restrictions could apply in Europe.
California Air Resources Board said:
Third, and most worrisome for owners in California and some other states, they may not be able to re-sell or even re-register their TDI vehicles until they are fixed by Volkswagen.
That's because the vehicles were apparently "non-compliant," or illegal to sell in the first place as they now stand.
Before the vehicle can be re-registered, the strict California Air Resources Board (CARB) may require the car to be made legal--and as of today, we have no inkling of how long that could take.
In suspending its Recommended rating on the diesel Jetta and Passat, Consumer Reports notes:
While it is legal to sell the car, CARB and the California Department of Motor Vehicles may not allow the buyer to register the vehicle, and current owners may not be allowed to renew their registrations, until all the emission recall work has been completed.
Some states that follow California emission standards (so-called Partial Zero Emission states) also have rules in place that require all emissions-related recalls to be completed before periodical emission testing. If the recall is not completed, the vehicle cannot pass the inspection, and the state will decline renewal of the vehicle registration.
That's because the vehicles were apparently "non-compliant," or illegal to sell in the first place as they now stand.
Before the vehicle can be re-registered, the strict California Air Resources Board (CARB) may require the car to be made legal--and as of today, we have no inkling of how long that could take.
In suspending its Recommended rating on the diesel Jetta and Passat, Consumer Reports notes:
While it is legal to sell the car, CARB and the California Department of Motor Vehicles may not allow the buyer to register the vehicle, and current owners may not be allowed to renew their registrations, until all the emission recall work has been completed.
Some states that follow California emission standards (so-called Partial Zero Emission states) also have rules in place that require all emissions-related recalls to be completed before periodical emission testing. If the recall is not completed, the vehicle cannot pass the inspection, and the state will decline renewal of the vehicle registration.
fblm said:
///ajd said:
But if I had 2.0 TDi VW now with say 180ps, I'd be pretty nervous about how it will drive after its 'emissions reduction upgrade', wouldn't you?
Very! It will be interesting to see what gets fvcked up and how badly. My moneys on a small drop in mpg and a horrible mess of a torque curve.
k about emissions they wouldn't have bought the 180bhp version would they?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff