Should the railways be nationalised?
Poll: Should the railways be nationalised?
Total Members Polled: 471
Discussion
Should the railways be nationalised?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34306333
Line by line!!!
Only a 50/50 answer, but if any wish to have a yes (but privately managed) and a no (no subsidy) I can add it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34306333
Line by line!!!
Only a 50/50 answer, but if any wish to have a yes (but privately managed) and a no (no subsidy) I can add it.
Why are lefties so bleeping thick?
All that will happen is it will go back to the chaos of the 60s, yes we have a national railway that no government will invest in or maintain and it will start to fall apart again, Labour won't commit to anything as their government will not see the benefits, but will bare the costs and they don't want to help out the next government if it looks like being the Tories, then a private company will need to come in and invest practically all profits back into upgrading the lines, etc.
It will be that expensive that rail tickets are bloody expensive.... Oh wait I just described what did just happen and everyone whines about it now and not a lot can be done except for Lefties to b
h and complain about something the Labour party helped to contribute to.
So I vote No for the above simple reasoning.
All that will happen is it will go back to the chaos of the 60s, yes we have a national railway that no government will invest in or maintain and it will start to fall apart again, Labour won't commit to anything as their government will not see the benefits, but will bare the costs and they don't want to help out the next government if it looks like being the Tories, then a private company will need to come in and invest practically all profits back into upgrading the lines, etc.
It will be that expensive that rail tickets are bloody expensive.... Oh wait I just described what did just happen and everyone whines about it now and not a lot can be done except for Lefties to b
h and complain about something the Labour party helped to contribute to.So I vote No for the above simple reasoning.
The government and their union buddies use nationalised 'industries' as massive piggy banks. They get away with no real investment as no government ever regulates itself and they are gone before the truth surfaces.
As ever with the left, those who plan being at the top of the New Equality Pyramid are all in favour of it. And our descendants foot the bill.
As ever with the left, those who plan being at the top of the New Equality Pyramid are all in favour of it. And our descendants foot the bill.
How do other countries seem to manage with cheap fares, trains that run on time, and ticketing structures where you don't need to book 3 weeks in advance if you don't want to hock a kidney?
I don't know if the answer is nationalised or not, but the current system doesn't seem like a shining example of how to do it properly.
I don't know if the answer is nationalised or not, but the current system doesn't seem like a shining example of how to do it properly.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: How do other countries seem to manage with cheap fares, trains that run on time, and ticketing structures where you don't need to book 3 weeks in advance if you don't want to hock a kidney?
I don't know if the answer is nationalised or not, but the current system doesn't seem like a shining example of how to do it properly.
They actually maintain it rather than leave it for 40-50 years and then watch the infrastructure go to sI don't know if the answer is nationalised or not, but the current system doesn't seem like a shining example of how to do it properly.
t.Plus they think in advance and dont need special trains and track built (we have a difference size track to everyone else), etc. etc.
Du1point8 said:
They actually maintain it rather than leave it for 40-50 years and then watch the infrastructure go to st.
Plus they think in advance and dont need special trains and track built (we have a difference size track to everyone else), etc. etc.
And most people won't care if the answer is nationalised or privatised so long as that is fixed and they can get cheap rail travel on demand.t.Plus they think in advance and dont need special trains and track built (we have a difference size track to everyone else), etc. etc.
This topic has already been discussed somewhere on PH and I made the point at the time that various EU directives require countries to have open access, another point is non of the passenger companies own anything so a government would have to find huge sums of money just to use the existing rolling stock. Almost everything used in the day to day running of trains is rented, from traincrew accommodation to photocopiers. What about rates of pay, I've been driving trains for 37 years so well remember the days of BR, terms and conditions just for drivers now vary considerably across companies before you even being to look at all the other contracts in place.
Du1point8 said:
They actually maintain it rather than leave it for 40-50 years and then watch the infrastructure go to st.
Plus they think in advance and dont need special trains and track built (we have a difference size track to everyone else), etc. etc.
Agree the first paragraph - think BR!t.Plus they think in advance and dont need special trains and track built (we have a difference size track to everyone else), etc. etc.
Second paragraph certainly isn't true. The Stephensons had a big influence on French railways who also 'drive on the left' and have the same guage - but different rolling stock profile.
Problem
Tickets cost seem high
Trains run late
Always massively overcroded.
Why?
The Govts over 50-70 years invested nothing in the railways - so rather than continuous investment there was nothing except if something broke and couldn't be patched up.
What does that all mean?
Trains run late/break down often - it's not the trains which break down instead it's the points on the track and all track related issues. Why is this a problem it's all down to lack of continuous investment so if it's all shaved now you simply cannot wholesale change the points as the railways would simply be out of action for months to years while the work is carried out - how do people get to work? As such they have to make marginal step changes over a protracted timescale. So this isn't franchise operates fault it is Network rail which is privatised.
Massively overcrowded - our platforms are short so cannot run longer trains to create more capacity
We have a Victorian railway which is essentially in the same state
We cannot go for double decker trains to instantly double capacity as all the bridges are too low and also all the electrification is also too low.
We run different width track than anyone else in the world so we have to have bespoke trains at higher cost.
Take Eurostar as an example of a brand new track (30years old now) fast efficient big capacity only breaks down due to lorry foorss in he tunnel and people smuggling.
So prices will simply not decrease unless you take it out of general taxation and force those who don't use it to subsidise tickets for those that do all for the greater good. Are you who doesn't use it willing to pay say £1k extra tax a year for this benefit?
Tickets cost seem high
Trains run late
Always massively overcroded.
Why?
The Govts over 50-70 years invested nothing in the railways - so rather than continuous investment there was nothing except if something broke and couldn't be patched up.
What does that all mean?
Trains run late/break down often - it's not the trains which break down instead it's the points on the track and all track related issues. Why is this a problem it's all down to lack of continuous investment so if it's all shaved now you simply cannot wholesale change the points as the railways would simply be out of action for months to years while the work is carried out - how do people get to work? As such they have to make marginal step changes over a protracted timescale. So this isn't franchise operates fault it is Network rail which is privatised.
Massively overcrowded - our platforms are short so cannot run longer trains to create more capacity
We have a Victorian railway which is essentially in the same state
We cannot go for double decker trains to instantly double capacity as all the bridges are too low and also all the electrification is also too low.
We run different width track than anyone else in the world so we have to have bespoke trains at higher cost.
Take Eurostar as an example of a brand new track (30years old now) fast efficient big capacity only breaks down due to lorry foorss in he tunnel and people smuggling.
So prices will simply not decrease unless you take it out of general taxation and force those who don't use it to subsidise tickets for those that do all for the greater good. Are you who doesn't use it willing to pay say £1k extra tax a year for this benefit?
Welshbeef said:
Take Eurostar as an example of a brand new track (30years old now) fast efficient big capacity only breaks down due to lorry foorss in he tunnel and people smuggling.
OT, but in my experience that is so far off the mark as to be hilarious. I think it's broken down about 70% of the time I've been on it.Worst seats ever designed as well.
PRTVR said:
I think they should be nationalised, but using the German system, that is that the company is ran to private rules but is government owned, I do not think they would work without subsidies.
State capitalism isn't the same as nationalising. If we wanted to adopt the German model, the State would need to buy an existing franchise or bid for one using a new company and have it run independent of Government influence in a private market (just with shares owned by the State). I like Germany's set-up, but nationalised it ain't.
Welshbeef said:
Problem
Tickets cost seem high
Trains run late
Always massively overcroded.
Why?
The Govts over 50-70 years invested nothing in the railways - so rather than continuous investment there was nothing except if something broke and couldn't be patched up.
What does that all mean?
Trains run late/break down often - it's not the trains which break down instead it's the points on the track and all track related issues. Why is this a problem it's all down to lack of continuous investment so if it's all shaved now you simply cannot wholesale change the points as the railways would simply be out of action for months to years while the work is carried out - how do people get to work? As such they have to make marginal step changes over a protracted timescale. So this isn't franchise operates fault it is Network rail which is privatised.
Massively overcrowded - our platforms are short so cannot run longer trains to create more capacity
We have a Victorian railway which is essentially in the same state
We cannot go for double decker trains to instantly double capacity as all the bridges are too low and also all the electrification is also too low.
We run different width track than anyone else in the world so we have to have bespoke trains at higher cost.
Take Eurostar as an example of a brand new track (30years old now) fast efficient big capacity only breaks down due to lorry foorss in he tunnel and people smuggling.
So prices will simply not decrease unless you take it out of general taxation and force those who don't use it to subsidise tickets for those that do all for the greater good. Are you who doesn't use it willing to pay say £1k extra tax a year for this benefit?
Bit in bold Tickets cost seem high
Trains run late
Always massively overcroded.
Why?
The Govts over 50-70 years invested nothing in the railways - so rather than continuous investment there was nothing except if something broke and couldn't be patched up.
What does that all mean?
Trains run late/break down often - it's not the trains which break down instead it's the points on the track and all track related issues. Why is this a problem it's all down to lack of continuous investment so if it's all shaved now you simply cannot wholesale change the points as the railways would simply be out of action for months to years while the work is carried out - how do people get to work? As such they have to make marginal step changes over a protracted timescale. So this isn't franchise operates fault it is Network rail which is privatised.
Massively overcrowded - our platforms are short so cannot run longer trains to create more capacity
We have a Victorian railway which is essentially in the same state
We cannot go for double decker trains to instantly double capacity as all the bridges are too low and also all the electrification is also too low.
We run different width track than anyone else in the world so we have to have bespoke trains at higher cost.
Take Eurostar as an example of a brand new track (30years old now) fast efficient big capacity only breaks down due to lorry foorss in he tunnel and people smuggling.
So prices will simply not decrease unless you take it out of general taxation and force those who don't use it to subsidise tickets for those that do all for the greater good. Are you who doesn't use it willing to pay say £1k extra tax a year for this benefit?
https://youtu.be/CXv-wy1oft8
If you have sime time, watch railwatch from 1989.
Why would you want to go back to that??
If you have sime time, watch railwatch from 1989.
Why would you want to go back to that??
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