Britain First

[S10GTA]

Bunch of cockwombles

[Johnnytheboy]

HewManHeMan said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Proof again that the right/left terms really don't work.

The 'ex' considered me Right Wing whilst PH's would probably consider me Left.

I think I'm in the middle, mostly Left but with some Right.

I think the Ex was a Hippy and PH's is UKIP headquarters...

I get what you're saying but you've missed my point. In many (economic) ways I AM more right wing than my Facebook friend.

But on social issues I'm to the left of her more or less across the board.

[Digga]

WinkleHoff said:

This organisation seem to be made up of predominately working class people. These are likely to be people who have their roots in areas that have been changed beyond recognition by immigration. I suspect that they are angry, frustrated, and feel sold out by progressive governments. They are not champagne socialists living in Chiswick, whose lives are unaffected by mass immigration, social change and cultural erosion. I think the way they say things does not do them any favours. I can't speak for any underlying motives, but taking the website at face value, are we able to sit here and say that none of the concerns are valid? Are we in the business of the vilification of the views of the working class, simply because they are not as eloquent? Is it how they say it rather than what they say?

Just being devils advocate here.

You are missing the point whilst hitting the nail right on the head - nothing of what they publish on social media is too far from reasonable and, indeed, is likely to be the concern of a great many people - not only white, working class British, but also immigrant British - who live in areas affected by mass immigration and cultural change.

However, the deeper-rooted and less explicit aims of the people behind Britain First are less popular and reasonable.

[rohrl]

Maybe everyone who receives these messages on Facebook/Twitter should drop the sender a short note telling them that they'd prefer not to get any more and telling them a little bit about who Britain First really are.

I doubt many people want to be thought of by their peers the sort of people who knowingly support far-right groups.

[Ste1987]

hidetheelephants said:

Ste1987 said:

GloverMart said:

There was a Facebook post earlier today from "Britain Furst" which stated that Big Ben was going to be renamed "Big Mohammed" and that you should share to stop it happening.*

• - something like that, the exact details escape me.

Britain Furst is a parody group taking the piss. Also I'm sure that Ice T image was coined up by the same group, but it looks like some meathead has taken it seriously

I don't keep up with popular beat combos much, but I believe the gentleman performs under the nom de guerre Ice Cube; Ice T is a different gentleman altogether.

Aw st man! What's strange is whilst I typed that I was thinking Ice Cube, but my fingers typed Ice T?

[clonmult]

rohrl said:

Maybe everyone who receives these messages on Facebook/Twitter should drop the sender a short note telling them that they'd prefer not to get any more and telling them a little bit about who Britain First really are.

I doubt many people want to be thought of by their peers the sort of people who knowingly support far-right groups.

One of my mates seems to support Britain First. But I'm expecting him to reconsider at some point - he's almost violently anti religious. Britain first, if their facebook page is representative of their members, seems to be turning into a fundamentalist christian movement. They're a very, very strange bunch.

One things for sure, BF do seem to be getting a lot of support for their manufactured articles (rarely any of which have any basis in reality).

[Digga]

clonmult said:

One things for sure, BF do seem to be getting a lot of support for their manufactured articles (rarely any of which have any basis in reality).

Put in perspective, page likes and post likes are around 10x that of Pistonheads.

[HewManHeMan]

Digga said:

clonmult said:

One things for sure, BF do seem to be getting a lot of support for their manufactured articles (rarely any of which have any basis in reality).

Put in perspective, page likes and post likes are around 10x that of Pistonheads.

Yeah but nobody 'likes' PistonHeads, not even the people on PistonHeads.

Every thread is an argument.

[Digga]

HewManHeMan said:

Digga said:

clonmult said:

One things for sure, BF do seem to be getting a lot of support for their manufactured articles (rarely any of which have any basis in reality).

Put in perspective, page likes and post likes are around 10x that of Pistonheads.

Yeah but nobody 'likes' PistonHeads, not even the people on PistonHeads.

Every thread is an argument.

I wouldn't know, but I get your drift.

[Crush]

WinkleHoff said:

This organisation seem to be made up of predominately working class people. These are likely to be people who have their roots in areas that have been changed beyond recognition by immigration. I suspect that they are angry, frustrated, and feel sold out by progressive governments. They are not champagne socialists living in Chiswick, whose lives are unaffected by mass immigration, social change and cultural erosion. I think the way they say things does not do them any favours. I can't speak for any underlying motives, but taking the website at face value, are we able to sit here and say that none of the concerns are valid? Are we in the business of the vilification of the views of the working class, simply because they are not as eloquent? Is it how they say it rather than what they say?

Just being devils advocate here.

I think you have a point. We do seem to have reached a point where unless you have a degree and "Spark lark thart", your opinion matters little.

I don't agree with a lot of what Britain First rant on about, but I can see why people can feel a connection to what they say.

[killingjoker]

Crush said:

WinkleHoff said:

This organisation seem to be made up of predominately working class people. These are likely to be people who have their roots in areas that have been changed beyond recognition by immigration. I suspect that they are angry, frustrated, and feel sold out by progressive governments. They are not champagne socialists living in Chiswick, whose lives are unaffected by mass immigration, social change and cultural erosion. I think the way they say things does not do them any favours. I can't speak for any underlying motives, but taking the website at face value, are we able to sit here and say that none of the concerns are valid? Are we in the business of the vilification of the views of the working class, simply because they are not as eloquent? Is it how they say it rather than what they say?

Just being devils advocate here.

I think you have a point. We do seem to have reached a point where unless you have a degree and "Spark lark thart", your opinion matters little.

I don't agree with a lot of what Britain First rant on about, but I can see why people can feel a connection to what they say.

Nail hit. Expect more of this as a result.

[triggerh4ppy]

These groups always remind me of this interview. Pretty much shows the collective IQ of these people.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjuNuqIev8M

[WinkleHoff]

Digga said:

WinkleHoff said:

This organisation seem to be made up of predominately working class people. These are likely to be people who have their roots in areas that have been changed beyond recognition by immigration. I suspect that they are angry, frustrated, and feel sold out by progressive governments. They are not champagne socialists living in Chiswick, whose lives are unaffected by mass immigration, social change and cultural erosion. I think the way they say things does not do them any favours. I can't speak for any underlying motives, but taking the website at face value, are we able to sit here and say that none of the concerns are valid? Are we in the business of the vilification of the views of the working class, simply because they are not as eloquent? Is it how they say it rather than what they say?

Just being devils advocate here.

You are missing the point whilst hitting the nail right on the head - nothing of what they publish on social media is too far from reasonable and, indeed, is likely to be the concern of a great many people - not only white, working class British, but also immigrant British - who live in areas affected by mass immigration and cultural change.

However, the deeper-rooted and less explicit aims of the people behind Britain First are less popular and reasonable.

Are the less explicit aims of this group merely implied terms based on what we have come to expect of working class people with views that are classed as right wing? Are we seeing/expecting something that isn't there? If I set up the Chiswick Free Thinkers Group and reached similar conclusions but in a more rational and politically acceptable way, would it be considered in the same way?

I don't live in Chiswick by the way!

[Digga]

WinkleHoff said:

Are the less explicit aims of this group merely implied terms based on what we have come to expect of working class people with views that are classed as right wing? Are we seeing/expecting something that isn't there? If I set up the Chiswick Free Thinkers Group and reached similar conclusions but in a more rational and politically acceptable way, would it be considered in the same way?

There's no extrapolation; the explicit, public aims of the group are much less extreme than the apparent intent of those who've set it up. It is not a case of EDLers and BNPers who've seen the error of their ways - as perhaps Tommy Robinson could be said to have.

WinkleHoff said:

I don't live in Chiswick by the way!

Nothing wrong with it, very pleasant. Me, Mrs Digga and the dog had a very nice pub lunch at the Carpenters Arms with my uncle who lives there the other week.

[DJRC]

So it's a social media/Facebook "famous" thing not a real world thing.

I do wish people would mention whether something is a real world thing or something for the social media retards to care about.

[WinkleHoff]

Digga said:

WinkleHoff said:

Are the less explicit aims of this group merely implied terms based on what we have come to expect of working class people with views that are classed as right wing? Are we seeing/expecting something that isn't there? If I set up the Chiswick Free Thinkers Group and reached similar conclusions but in a more rational and politically acceptable way, would it be considered in the same way?

There's no extrapolation; the explicit, public aims of the group are much less extreme than the apparent intent of those who've set it up. It is not a case of EDLers and BNPers who've seen the error of their ways - as perhaps Tommy Robinson could be said to have.

WinkleHoff said:

I don't live in Chiswick by the way!

Nothing wrong with it, very pleasant. Me, Mrs Digga and the dog had a very nice pub lunch at the Carpenters Arms with my uncle who lives there the other week.

But isn't it just apparent intent rather than real? Is it an assumed intent based on the demographic of the group? Tommy Robinson left the EDL, and interestingly since then has had access to more forums, including an address at Oxford University where he gave a presentation about what is going on in Luton.

[HewManHeMan]

DJRC said:

So it's a social media/Facebook "famous" thing not a real world thing.

I do wish people would mention whether something is a real world thing or something for the social media retards to care about.

It may come as a surprise but the people that exist on Social Media also exist in the real world, too.

Also worth noting that the King of Britain First (whoever the fk he is) is running for the Mayor of London.

However, this is also kind of my point. BF and its followers (however you define them) get their knickers in a twist over entirely fabricated bullst, usually aimed to vilify Muslims.
And therein lies my point; it's the idiots who swallow their lies to the point of becoming angrily defensive of 'Britsh Values' that intimidate far more than the Muslim (or whoever) BF aim for.

And yes, these things do spill into real life. Often in a pub, after a few, where conversation can veer towards subjects that you should avoid after a few.

[WinkleHoff]

HewManHeMan said:

It may come as a surprise but the people that exist on Social Media also exist in the real world, too.

Also worth noting that the King of Britain First (whoever the fk he is) is running for the Mayor of London.

However, this is also kind of my point. BF and its followers (however you define them) get their knickers in a twist over entirely fabricated bullst, usually aimed to vilify Muslims.
And therein lies my point; it's the idiots who swallow their lies to the point of becoming angrily defensive of 'Britsh Values' that intimidate far more than the Muslim (or whoever) BF aim for.

And yes, these things do spill into real life. Often in a pub, after a few, where conversation can veer towards subjects that you should avoid after a few.

In the interests of balance, what are the examples of that which is fabricated?

Without wishing to divert the thread, there is plenty of empirical data to say that we do indeed have a problem with Islam. I haven't seen anyone from BF blowing themselves up in London, Madrid, Bali, New York etc. I haven't seen them conduct honour killings, stonings, death for apostasy, genital mutilation, execution of gays, or the decapitation of a soldier on our streets. Haven't seen them call for a parallel legal system in this country. Nor turn up in protest at armed forces parades. Nor exhibit absolute intolerance for any other religion. I could go on.

I an not a member of BF, nor do I wish to be. What matters to me is facts and correct representation.

[rscott]

WinkleHoff said:

HewManHeMan said:

It may come as a surprise but the people that exist on Social Media also exist in the real world, too.

Also worth noting that the King of Britain First (whoever the fk he is) is running for the Mayor of London.

However, this is also kind of my point. BF and its followers (however you define them) get their knickers in a twist over entirely fabricated bullst, usually aimed to vilify Muslims.
And therein lies my point; it's the idiots who swallow their lies to the point of becoming angrily defensive of 'Britsh Values' that intimidate far more than the Muslim (or whoever) BF aim for.

And yes, these things do spill into real life. Often in a pub, after a few, where conversation can veer towards subjects that you should avoid after a few.

In the interests of balance, what are the examples of that which is fabricated?

Without wishing to divert the thread, there is plenty of empirical data to say that we do indeed have a problem with Islam. I haven't seen anyone from BF blowing themselves up in London, Madrid, Bali, New York etc. I haven't seen them conduct honour killings, stonings, death for apostasy, genital mutilation, execution of gays, or the decapitation of a soldier on our streets. Haven't seen them call for a parallel legal system in this country. Nor turn up in protest at armed forces parades. Nor exhibit absolute intolerance for any other religion. I could go on.

I an not a member of BF, nor do I wish to be. What matters to me is facts and correct representation.

No, we have a problem with radical Islamists who are responsible for many of the things you've mentioned. They've been condemned by many other Muslims who are very clear that what these radical groups do is not in accordance with the way the majority of Muslims interpret their holy book.

FGM isn't even specific to the Muslim faith. it's actually declared forbidden by many Muslim scholars. it's more prevalent amongst Christians than Muslims in Kenya, for example.

BF take the view that ALL muslims are bad and must be removed from our country/ face of the earth.

Another example of their twisted perceptions- they want to hang all paedophiles (especially Muslim ones) but have a convicted paedophile as a 'Regional Commanding Officer'.

[WinkleHoff]

I undertook some quick research but couldn't find any of the policies you refer to. Could you point me in the right direction?

Regarding Islam, that is a debate for another thread really. However, the scripture mandates violence in numerous places, so I'm sorry but there is a problem with Islam itself, however much we might want delude ourself that there is not. I'm not saying there aren't peaceful Muslims; there are. However, once Islam takes hold, it reverts to type. Wholly Islamic countries exhibit the abhorrent things I describe, so are they all "fundamentalist". No, they are just Islamic. There is good reason for concern.