Redcar Steel plant

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the government needs to look seriously at energy prices and get rid of all the carbon taxes/green levies/etc.

stuff the greens, we need basic industries that provide REAL jobs and REAL products (that make real exports)

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fblm said:

As opposed to unreal exports?

carousel fraud for example....

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dudleybloke said:

Its about keeping the capacity and skillset. Once lost its hard to build back up and leaves us buying from abroad.

Very much so, just like where we are building new nuclear stations.....

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even the pig-thick unions are beginning to understand the problem:

http://order-order.com/2015/10/20/unions-v-steel-i...

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Esseesse said:

Tax Chinese steel and subsidise British steel with the revenue (and scrap the green energy taxes crap).

why is china's steel dumping not taxed at a EU level?

just demonstrates how the EU simply does not work, Italy supports it's steel industry with 75M Euro's this year, similar figures used in Germany (under some green initiative apparently), and our dear government does jack-st.

We are paying double the energy costs in the UK as France, and nearer 6 times the cost for China.

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I would suggest losing our steel and strip mills is going to have a negative impact on the car plant investment prospects.

What's the point in making cars in the UK if every single part has to be imported?

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turbobloke said:

Exactly, no dumb Libdims to blame now.

Welcome to the world of CMD and its culpable stupicide.

worth remembering, there is only one party who's policies are anti-Green crap.

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s2art said:

First they would have to get permission from Brussels, as it would contravene EU competition law. May not be as easy as it sounds.

has not stopped both Italy and Germany doing such?

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Sounds just like grangemouth....

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Amazing isn't it?

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vonuber said:

Yup. But this is PH, so it is all Labour's fault.
Cameron et al are selling us down the river, yet people are arguing over biomass. Says it all.

no need to be tribal, *ALL* of them are happily pushing us down this green route.

infact, the only party that's NOT pushing this way is UKIP

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mix - yes, BUT

Wind/Tidal/wave/etc are simply not viable (even with massive subsidies)

Nuclear should be, but they have done it in such a way to front-load everything the costs have just got stupid, over the 3 years we have been talking about Hinckley, the costs have gone from £12B to £25Bn, even at £12Bn it's made-up numbers.


some history:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/nucle...

Estimates now put cost ~$14Bn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/en...

still £14Bn at the end of 2013:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hi...

One year on and the costs jumps to £24.5Bn

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29536793

it's simply laughable, might just as well be using a dice...

on top of that, they are talking price guarantees for 35 years at silly money/Mwh

So, by the numbers, it's a 3,200Mw Nuc, so that's some 28Twh per year

35 years = 980Twh

if it costs £25Bn / 980Twh = £25.51/Mwh

some serious scope for profit there then! (even assuming the £25Bn figure is actually real)

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turbobloke said:

The Moon's gravitational field is going nowhere. No taxpayer subsidies though.

how does that help?

(and please don't bother with tidal bull)

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Problem is our dear governments (of all colours) consistently keep placing big orders oversea's claiming cost savings (but totally ignoring the costs of NOT buying british)

back in 2012:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13049368.Foreig...

More recently:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17127488

and

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shameless-tor...

it would appear we simply don;t understand joined up thinking in government.

No surprise I guess after the massive Intercity Express Programme contract going to Hitachi:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bus...

then when the steel plants face closure, they all cry nothing they can do etc etc...

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V8 Fettler said:

Sizewell C cost estimate in the mid-1990s was c£4billion as I recall. The Sizewell B team was still in place at that time, now long dispersed and typically retired.

interesting...

it;s amazing that at the time, the same old arguments were being talked to death:

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1990/jan/...

that's from 1990 arguing the case for Sizewell B!

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Strocky said:

It also doesn't help that the scale of our steel making capacity has been reduced over the years by successive governments to the extent that we can't tender for large infrastructure as a sole supplier

Tata was part of the losing consortium bid for the Forth Road Crossing, the winning bid came in at £400m under budget

IIRC Dalzell only had the capacity for a 1/3 of the plate requirements for the Forth Crossing

Also Tata isn't a UK company but a privately owned multinational with plants in the UK

yes, but with Tata's plants etc it could have made up the required qty.

Also, Yes Tata are not british, but their plants are and that's the important bit, much like Jaguar Landrover.

I do take your point about not being about to bid for the really big stuff, but that's not really such an issue with stuff like bridge and ship building as they are not stuff that get's done at the drop of a hat, look how long we are still faffing about with the two carriers (and I wonder where the steel for them came from?)

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Strocky said:

Yep as an example, CE Marking that became mandatory last July is costing small fabricators in the region of £10-£20k for accreditation, for some with a small turnover, it's simply a cost that wasn't worth absorbing

and totally pointless when everything that comes in from China has the same marking (and almost certainly is not compliant!)

Whatever was wrong with the good old BS kite-mark!

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Strocky said:

Unfortunately the Forthspan consortium's bid (which Tata where part of) was £300m more than the winning consortium (although they argued their bid was technically more competent and lead to substantially less delays over the cheaper bid's build plan which could add delays to the job)

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/preferred...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/13147208.De...

Hindsight, who would have guessed?

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Digga said:

ully for you, my little Southern seat-shiner, but consider someone else for a change; there are men and women out there who don't share your views. People who don't want a 'nice office job' (now known to be somewhat bad for your health, but that's another issue entirely) or, more importantly, are not and never will be qualified or equipped to work in the information and services economy but who will end up being a burden on the system if they do not have a labouring job to go to.

if everybody works in insurance and banking, where does the money come from to pay for all these services?

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Reminds me of the Ben elton sketch about a cabinet shuffle..

"Suit full of bigger all" springs to mind.