Redcar Steel plant

[KarlMac]

FiF said:

Digga said:

FiF said:

UK asks for permission from EU first, others, Germany, Italy and others were cited, organise and give the support and ask afterwards once the support is in place.

Not really sure why this is. Italy, especially, take the piss on a number of levells.

I suspect part of the answer is in the esteem that Engineers are held in; both in Italy and Germany, "Eng" is a title, in the way "Dr" is in this country. Unions have a much stronger (and probably more positive than the traditional UK them-and-us unions of the 1970s - hence the diverging success of our respective national automobile industries) role in both governance of industry and in politics in Germany, whereas - as I oft lament - the UK is home to the career politician.

The other thing that frustrates me is that in Britain, and to be fair also in some other countries, is the way career politicians and managerialists rotate posts so frequently. This results in the frequent appointment of "know nothings" on the pretext that they aren't invested in the status quo and will bring fresh perspective. Too often they just bring a retinue of know nothing suck ups and mates.

And at the other end of the scale we have the '30 years service, man and boy, can't teach me nowt' union member gobste that would rather a company go out of business that work with 'management' to change or improve, because he pays his subs every month.

Britains industry is in the pan due to its ingrained lack of a willingness to change, commodity manufacturing is rife with complacency and 'it was better in my day attitude'. All the while other economies have been giving the customer what they want and winning the business.

Its everyones fault. The government, management, unions, workers, the general public. The lot of them. But no, lets play the Unions favourite blame game.

[FiF]

30 years service gobste might have been true in the 70s and the 80s, not encountered one of those in 20 and more years.

[Scuffers]

KarlMac said:

And at the other end of the scale we have the '30 years service, man and boy, can't teach me nowt' union member gobste that would rather a company go out of business that work with 'management' to change or improve, because he pays his subs every month.

Britains industry is in the pan due to its ingrained lack of a willingness to change, commodity manufacturing is rife with complacency and 'it was better in my day attitude'. All the while other economies have been giving the customer what they want and winning the business.

Its everyones fault. The government, management, unions, workers, the general public. The lot of them. But no, lets play the Unions favourite blame game.

to a point, you are right, you only have to look at the stupidity of Unite at Grangemouth to see just how dumb they can be.

Now, with steel it's pretty clear what the issues are:

1) cheap Chinese steel being dumped
2) stupidly high energy costs in the UK, double the costs of France and 5-6x the cost of China.
3) paying stupidly high business rates (TAX)

we can't do much about the first (although I can't see why we cannot slap import tariffs on them?), but we can deal with the second and third TODAY, not go begging to the EU with our begging bowl out...



will the government do anything? no, just the usual platitudes and shuffling around.

[speedy_thrills]

KarlMac said:

Its everyones fault.

There have been commodity price bubbles and supply gluts for most of human history. It's just part of a normal cyclical market driven by human behaviour. In 15-20 years these plants may well be profitable again as everyone realises that cutting investment so far has left supply very tight. No one with half a brain gets into building steel plants to make a quick buck:

[chrisga]

Strocky said:

Yep as an example, CE Marking that became mandatory last July is costing small fabricators in the region of £10-£20k for accreditation, for some with a small turnover, it's simply a cost that wasn't worth absorbing

Well, those of us that have sucked it up and are CE compliant at least. When you hear other fabricators saying they haven't bothered as they are small enough to "stay under the radar" it's a smidge annoying to say the least!

[FiF]

1000 more to go tomorrow in Port Talbot.

[hornetrider]

FiF said:

1000 more to go tomorrow in Port Talbot.

This will devastate the local community

[jmorgan]

Hell. They are trying to save it says a press report. Slippery slope unless there is intervention.

[Scuffers]

hornetrider said:

FiF said:

1000 more to go tomorrow in Port Talbot.

This will devastate the local community

so much for Carwyn Jones assertions (during his debate with Farage)

[Digga]

jmorgan said:

Hell. They are trying to save it says a press report. Slippery slope unless there is intervention.

I read in the ST yesterday that there is a Minister for Small Business, Anna Soubry and (not that this has anything directly to do with small business, but is nonetheless the sort of thing you'd hope was being done by someone) she has been involved in talks to save the Shorpe plant, because the government realises (praise the Lord!) the strategic significance of maintaining steel production capability. Let us hope, sincerely, that there's some substance to this and that Port Talbot can also be salvaged.

[Esseesse]

Digga said:

jmorgan said:

Hell. They are trying to save it says a press report. Slippery slope unless there is intervention.

I read in the ST yesterday that there is a Minister for Small Business, Anna Soubry and (not that this has anything directly to do with small business, but is nonetheless the sort of thing you'd hope was being done by someone) she has been involved in talks to save the Shorpe plant, because the government realises (praise the Lord!) the strategic significance of maintaining steel production capability. Let us hope, sincerely, that there's some substance to this and that Port Talbot can also be salvaged.

I agree that there is a strategic significance but don't think we can do anything about it while in the EU. I'd like to be proved wrong.

[Scuffers]

Esseesse said:

I agree that there is a strategic significance but don't think we can do anything about it while in the EU. I'd like to be proved wrong.

which beggs the question why we cannot just give them UBR tax reductions NOW along with carbon tax exception, etc etc and argue the toss with the EU later?

[Digga]

Scuffers said:

Esseesse said:

I agree that there is a strategic significance but don't think we can do anything about it while in the EU. I'd like to be proved wrong.

which beggs the question why we cannot just give them UBR tax reductions NOW along with carbon tax exception, etc etc and argue the toss with the EU later?

This is what the Italians would do. Every time.

[crankedup]

To little and far to late so far as Government action is concerned. Mothball the plant, if possible, until we come out of the E.U.
As a little aside I had some new valve springs made for my old car. One man business did a fantastic job for me but mentioned that he had to buy in a huge quantity of the wire he uses for valve springs, adding that the stuff from China is of such poor quality he cannot consider using it.

[jmorgan]

Blast furnaces are a tad difficult to mothball and re start.

[Scuffers]

jmorgan said:

Blast furnaces are a tad difficult to mothball and re start.

this ^^^^

same deal with Redcar, it's gone, period.

the costs of re-starting this stuff makes it impossible.

[crankedup]

Another idea bites the dust Government need to keep the plant alive, at least until the E.U. question has been answered. Use some of the money we give away to Foreign aid, think about the U.K. first.

[Scuffers]

crankedup said:

Another idea bites the dust Government need to keep the plant alive, at least until the E.U. question has been answered. Use some of the money we give away to Foreign aid, think about the U.K. first.

it's not about actually needing aid money, it's about stopping taxing the st out of it.

as a side point, why are the EU not invoking anti-dumping taxes on Chinese steel?

[jmorgan]

It can be done but it ain't cheap.

Port talbot also has a two new furnaces I think. One was re built after an explosion, in which people died. And I think another in more recent years was built to replace an old one? Might be wrong.

[crankedup]

All the Government about paying down our debt and not leave it for the next generation to deal with, 'what will they think of us leaving such a burden'. Much the same might be said about standing on the side line watching our great industries melt away. Coal, steel, ship building, car manufacturing, yes it might be said the Trade Unions played a part in the demise but that argument does not apply of late.