Redcar Steel plant

[crankedup]

Scuffers said:

crankedup said:

Another idea bites the dust Government need to keep the plant alive, at least until the E.U. question has been answered. Use some of the money we give away to Foreign aid, think about the U.K. first.

it's not about actually needing aid money, it's about stopping taxing the st out of it.

as a side point, why are the EU not invoking anti-dumping taxes on Chinese steel?

Likely because China have had so much economic power the E.U. have been nervous about an intervention. Agree about the taxation, said today that if the business tax was stopped today it would still not help the plant.

[KarlMac]

Well I'm doing my bit, just placed a £400k order with a tube producer in Cardiff. In fairness they smashed my sources in Europe on both price and lead time.

[TEKNOPUG]

crankedup said:

Scuffers said:

as a side point, why are the EU not invoking anti-dumping taxes on Chinese steel?

Likely because China have had so much economic power the E.U. have been nervous about an intervention. Agree about the taxation, said today that if the business tax was stopped today it would still not help the plant.

Took the US 45 days to do it. Hence why the Chinese our now dumping all their steel in Europe. EU expect to take up to a year to organise tariffs. Chinese steel currently being produced at $35 loss per tonne....

[markcoznottz]

Esseesse said:

Digga said:

jmorgan said:

Hell. They are trying to save it says a press report. Slippery slope unless there is intervention.

I read in the ST yesterday that there is a Minister for Small Business, Anna Soubry and (not that this has anything directly to do with small business, but is nonetheless the sort of thing you'd hope was being done by someone) she has been involved in talks to save the Shorpe plant, because the government realises (praise the Lord!) the strategic significance of maintaining steel production capability. Let us hope, sincerely, that there's some substance to this and that Port Talbot can also be salvaged.

I agree that there is a strategic significance but don't think we can do anything about it while in the EU. I'd like to be proved wrong.

Climate change act nothing to do with the EU. Anna Soubrey used to read the news, yep she knows a lot about heavy industry.....

[Scuffers]

TEKNOPUG said:

crankedup said:

Scuffers said:

as a side point, why are the EU not invoking anti-dumping taxes on Chinese steel?

Likely because China have had so much economic power the E.U. have been nervous about an intervention. Agree about the taxation, said today that if the business tax was stopped today it would still not help the plant.

Took the US 45 days to do it. Hence why the Chinese our now dumping all their steel in Europe. EU expect to take up to a year to organise tariffs. Chinese steel currently being produced at $35 loss per tonne....

and that's the point, the EU are totally f**king useless.

if several months ago we had actually done something, we would not be here now crying about it, this has not just suddenly happened.

Our politicians are quite simply useless idiots who seem only to be able to come up with pointless soundbites.

[anonymous-user]

Scuffers said:

....

Our politicians are quite simply useless idiots who seem only to be able to come up with pointless soundbites.

I believe that's a key requirement of the job, yes...

[steveatesh]

Digga said:

Scuffers said:

Esseesse said:

I agree that there is a strategic significance but don't think we can do anything about it while in the EU. I'd like to be proved wrong.

which beggs the question why we cannot just give them UBR tax reductions NOW along with carbon tax exception, etc etc and argue the toss with the EU later?

This is what the Italians would do. Every time.

How prophetic - if you are in the BBC North east region they are showing an article tonight on how the Italian government intervened in their steel industry (A specific planT) and the local governor is denying it is conflict with EU regulations.

They apparently saved their plant by transferring a lot of cost to the tax payer, even paying men not to come to work, the plant has subsequently been sold to an Algerian for 400 Million Euro.

[FiF]

Lost track of what has been written on this thread over time, so apologies if this has been covered earlier, but wrote something on another thread today. Thought it also has a place on this thread, apologies for cross posting.

FiF said:

Completely off topic but will stick it here due to the recent discussions on EU parliamentary committees.

Recently looked for some information on the finance committee, came across some meeting information about ongoing work regarding "Mobilisation of the European Globalisation Restructuring Fund: Redundancies in Belgian Glass Industry"

Which got me thinking, was there anything in the archives with a title similar to the above but Belgian Glass Industry replaced with UK steel industry?

Nada, zilch, not a bean.

Though what came up were various articles and pieces saying the UK government were particularly useless in this respect and were completely failing the country and the respective industries by not even making an application. I have not fully checked the facts behind these accusations, mainly because they confirmed my beliefs, which is very naughty of me admittedly.

But really, wtf.

[markcoznottz]

FiF said:

Lost track of what has been written on this thread over time, so apologies if this has been covered earlier, but wrote something on another thread today. Thought it also has a place on this thread, apologies for cross posting.

FiF said:

Completely off topic but will stick it here due to the recent discussions on EU parliamentary committees.

Recently looked for some information on the finance committee, came across some meeting information about ongoing work regarding "Mobilisation of the European Globalisation Restructuring Fund: Redundancies in Belgian Glass Industry"

Which got me thinking, was there anything in the archives with a title similar to the above but Belgian Glass Industry replaced with UK steel industry?

Nada, zilch, not a bean.

Though what came up were various articles and pieces saying the UK government were particularly useless in this respect and were completely failing the country and the respective industries by not even making an application. I have not fully checked the facts behind these accusations, mainly because they confirmed my beliefs, which is very naughty of me admittedly.

But really, wtf.

Quite often we blame the EU but it's our goons that want things how they are. Same with the floods, the EU directive DOES allow dredging if homes are at risk, but it's not discussed on the BBC.

[markcoznottz]

FiF said:

Lost track of what has been written on this thread over time, so apologies if this has been covered earlier, but wrote something on another thread today. Thought it also has a place on this thread, apologies for cross posting.

FiF said:

Completely off topic but will stick it here due to the recent discussions on EU parliamentary committees.

Recently looked for some information on the finance committee, came across some meeting information about ongoing work regarding "Mobilisation of the European Globalisation Restructuring Fund: Redundancies in Belgian Glass Industry"

Which got me thinking, was there anything in the archives with a title similar to the above but Belgian Glass Industry replaced with UK steel industry?

Nada, zilch, not a bean.

Though what came up were various articles and pieces saying the UK government were particularly useless in this respect and were completely failing the country and the respective industries by not even making an application. I have not fully checked the facts behind these accusations, mainly because they confirmed my beliefs, which is very naughty of me admittedly.

But really, wtf.

Quite often we blame the EU but it's our goons that want things how they are. Same with the floods, the EU directive DOES allow dredging if homes are at risk, but it's not discussed on the BBC.

[Scuffers]

markcoznottz said:

Quite often we blame the EU but it's our goons that want things how they are. Same with the floods, the EU directive DOES allow dredging if homes are at risk, but it's not discussed on the BBC.

it appears to be worse than that...

David Cameron accused of 'betrayal' after blocking action to help UK steel industry

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron...

[Digga]

Scuffers said:

markcoznottz said:

Quite often we blame the EU but it's our goons that want things how they are. Same with the floods, the EU directive DOES allow dredging if homes are at risk, but it's not discussed on the BBC.

it appears to be worse than that...

David Cameron accused of 'betrayal' after blocking action to help UK steel industry

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron...

Spam-headed sop.

Got absolutely no idea about what's going on. If it's made of steel, the Chinese are dumping it in the West. Wise up while there's still customers for your FIL's windymill-generated electricity you tt.

[wc98]

Scuffers said:

it appears to be worse than that...

David Cameron accused of 'betrayal' after blocking action to help UK steel industry

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron...

as usual, follow the money. there WILL be tory party funders calling in the debt on this one. telling cameron to block increased tariffs so their own businesses do not get hurt. same old same old,fk the many for the benefit of a few.

[jmorgan]

He was courting them on their recent visit to levels that were cringing and appeared to be promising them the works, big projects and all that. Big projects that will need steel, and use Chinese construction companies. Don't know who was worse in charge in recent years, Labour or Tory.

[FiF]

Seen the work of a Chinese construction company in Sweden. Scaffolding made from bamboo poles. I kid you not. When picked up on this and a zillion other transgressions by HSE equivalent the response was "F*** you" and the company walked off the job leaving the site a total eyesore for ages.

[Scuffers]

FiF said:

Seen the work of a Chinese construction company in Sweden. Scaffolding made from bamboo poles. I kid you not. When picked up on this and a zillion other transgressions by HSE equivalent the response was "F*** you" and the company walked off the job leaving the site a total eyesore for ages.

and CMD wants them involved in building nuclear stations?

[bazza white]

I voted Tory and this is really hacking me off. Its not 1 redundancy, one department of a company or 1 company at risk its a whole industry going down the pan and many other manufacturing industries will be affected.

Green taxes exist why not add them to steel imports. We make some of the greenest steel in the world. Add export duty to scrap to.

[maffski]

FiF said:

Seen the work of a Chinese construction company in Sweden. Scaffolding made from bamboo poles. I kid you not. When picked up on this and a zillion other transgressions by HSE equivalent the response was "F*** you" and the company walked off the job leaving the site a total eyesore for ages.

Bamboo scaffolding is common and works perfectly well. I guess if they weren't experienced with steel it made more sense to ship bamboo over than to re-train.


http://asianinteriordesign.net/hong-kong/top-15-re...

[speedy_thrills]

bazza white said:

I voted Tory and this is really hacking me off. Its not 1 redundancy, one department of a company or 1 company at risk its a whole industry going down the pan and many other manufacturing industries will be affected.

Green taxes exist why not add them to steel imports. We make some of the greenest steel in the world. Add export duty to scrap to.

You are aware this is a global problem? Chinese mills are running at a loss, manipulating costs, subsidising and slashing wages. They are not behaving in an economically rational way. If we tariff imports local manufacturers that consume steel will be disadvantaged and if we subsidise we'll be subsiding for a very long time.

I'd love to say that there was some very easy fix but it isn't going to happen. The best thing the government can do now is help the folks who have lost their source of income transition to other meaningful employment.

[steveatesh]

speedy_thrills said:

bazza white said:

I voted Tory and this is really hacking me off. Its not 1 redundancy, one department of a company or 1 company at risk its a whole industry going down the pan and many other manufacturing industries will be affected.

Green taxes exist why not add them to steel imports. We make some of the greenest steel in the world. Add export duty to scrap to.

You are aware this is a global problem? Chinese mills are running at a loss, manipulating costs, subsidising and slashing wages. They are not behaving in an economically rational way. If we tariff imports local manufacturers that consume steel will be disadvantaged and if we subsidise we'll be subsiding for a very long time.

I'd love to say that there was some very easy fix but it isn't going to happen. The best thing the government can do now is help the folks who have lost their source of income transition to other meaningful employment.

I may be corrected on this but I believe the EU are responsible for trade tariffs etc and likewise subsidies - we can't provide subsidies as its against EU regulations ?
In other words it's mainly outside of the eUK governments control - global steel prices, unable to tariff or subsidies meaning all they can play around with are green taxes?