Redcar Steel plant
Discussion
(You couldn't make it up.)andymc said:
528Sport said:
legzr1 said:
crankedup said:
Nobody can be more keen than I to see our industries grow and thrive, the sad truth is that in this situation the owners simply cannot continue to pour in millions of loss pounds. Its hard economic facts in a Global market, if it was owned by Government maybe they would keep the place open, but very unlikely.
I hope that our Government can offer more support to the working people affected by the closure than was offered when the coal mines were closed!
It can be done and done well.I hope that our Government can offer more support to the working people affected by the closure than was offered when the coal mines were closed!
Consett was a large 'steel town' devastated by closure but time, investment and intelligent thinking helped greatly.
National house builders build expensive homes (that locals cant afford) on cheap land (money leaves local economy) using some subbies from down sarf. I own one of those homes and spoke to some of the contractors!
The likes of Costa, Starbucks and other chains setup shop providing some low paid jobs. Works bloody well. My house is worth £30K less than I paid for it in 2007.
This crap country needs to scrap its pointless "green" taxes, buy local and start bloody well looking after our own. Until then as others have said the foreign suppliers are sitting raking it in laughing all the way to the bank.
As for the pic above of the failed part yup that's what you get. Sad state of affairs.
Started to formulate a post around the idea that there are certain products, skills, industries that are strategically important to a nation, that sensibly should not be allowed to close and be lost, the sort of things that are vital to the running of the nation, and even more so if we were on a war footing, when even foreign ownership might not be too helpful.
So began a list of things that no sensible place would outsource to foreign supply or ownership.
Military defence obviously.
Energy, err oops.
Water supply, err oops.
Transport, err bugger.
Steel, aluminium and other special metal products, oh oops again.
Construction, that's a bit better due to smaller sized companies in this sector.
Aerospace, not totally gone but foreign takeovers of concern as identified by Civitas.
Then someone offered me a bit of Cadbury's Dairy Milk that the Yanks have managed to screw up and so I gave up trying to make any sense of it.
Britain's takeover regulations are too lax.
So began a list of things that no sensible place would outsource to foreign supply or ownership.
Military defence obviously.
Energy, err oops.
Water supply, err oops.
Transport, err bugger.
Steel, aluminium and other special metal products, oh oops again.
Construction, that's a bit better due to smaller sized companies in this sector.
Aerospace, not totally gone but foreign takeovers of concern as identified by Civitas.
Then someone offered me a bit of Cadbury's Dairy Milk that the Yanks have managed to screw up and so I gave up trying to make any sense of it.
Britain's takeover regulations are too lax.
legzr1 said:
andymc said:
528Sport said:
legzr1 said:
crankedup said:
Nobody can be more keen than I to see our industries grow and thrive, the sad truth is that in this situation the owners simply cannot continue to pour in millions of loss pounds. Its hard economic facts in a Global market, if it was owned by Government maybe they would keep the place open, but very unlikely.
I hope that our Government can offer more support to the working people affected by the closure than was offered when the coal mines were closed!
It can be done and done well.I hope that our Government can offer more support to the working people affected by the closure than was offered when the coal mines were closed!
Consett was a large 'steel town' devastated by closure but time, investment and intelligent thinking helped greatly.
National house builders build expensive homes (that locals cant afford) on cheap land (money leaves local economy) using some subbies from down sarf. I own one of those homes and spoke to some of the contractors!
The likes of Costa, Starbucks and other chains setup shop providing some low paid jobs. Works bloody well. My house is worth £30K less than I paid for it in 2007.
This crap country needs to scrap its pointless "green" taxes, buy local and start bloody well looking after our own. Until then as others have said the foreign suppliers are sitting raking it in laughing all the way to the bank.
As for the pic above of the failed part yup that's what you get. Sad state of affairs.
The same thing happened with Alcan in Lynemouth (together with a tidy sum from Alcans owners - unfortunately, SSI are skint so I don't expect much financial help from them).
Now, compare and contrast to the numerous other Nothern ghost towns left to rot when industries like mining and ship building stopped and an unforgiving Government did next to nothing to help.
Nope, Consett isn't Chelsea or Cantebury but it's a hell of a lot better than it might have been.
It's been over 10 years since I visited the place but it was jumping on a Saturday night.
As an aside, I heard yesterday that the government were talking about helping out with energy costs for SSI at Redcar - to start in 2017....
Cheers....
PRTVR said:
The problem comes if the plant doesn't reopen, if you let dumping of cheap steel into the country, the financial point at which it can reopen will never materialise, then you become dependant on foreign imports.
If the Chinese want to dump cheap steel into the UK market at under cost I'm sure many UK based manufacturers won't be complaining, it's pretty much the equivalent of writing them a cheque. When the cost of primary materials is depressed (as happens in cyclical industry) it's everyone else that benefits.
speedy_thrills said:
If the Chinese want to dump cheap steel into the UK market at under cost I'm sure many UK based manufacturers won't be complaining, it's pretty much the equivalent of writing them a cheque. When the cost of primary materials is depressed (as happens in cyclical industry) it's everyone else that benefits.
that's the problem, they are not dumping into the UK market as such, it's the world market.And yes, on paper it's cheaper steel, but in practice the steel industry needs has to be better quality so you end up paying more for it than the market spot price, (else you end up with shoddy parts like the picture before).
The car parts market is awash with cheap chinese sourced steel parts, very cheap but totally hopeless as the metallurgy of them is just random crap.
Can anyone explain this?
http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/newswire/roman-abramov...
I was born in Teesside and lived there until recently. The idea of a government subsidizing a Canadian steel plant owned by Roman Abramovic while it ignores it's own failing industry in the same sector absolutely boils my blood.
http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/newswire/roman-abramov...
I was born in Teesside and lived there until recently. The idea of a government subsidizing a Canadian steel plant owned by Roman Abramovic while it ignores it's own failing industry in the same sector absolutely boils my blood.
FiF said:
Britain's takeover regulations are too lax.
And we allow a country who will not even allow foreign ownership of any domestic country or factory to compete with us on a level playing field.We did benefit from their citizens spending and investing here, but their own currency worries have now illicited sufficient capital controls to make that a thing of the past.
Scuffers said:
The car parts market is awash with cheap chinese sourced steel parts, very cheap but totally hopeless as the metallurgy of them is just random crap.
Being fair to the Chinese, it's not just them. As I;ve mentioned elsewhere on PH, we were dealing with Korean factories in the mid 90s who were also supplying OEMs and had issues. Some problems were technically very odd - never seen on European steel - but were common both to our components and OEM failures we saw out in the UK market and, as far as metallurgists could tell, were due to very finite variations in alloy composition.AshBurrows said:
Can anyone explain this?
http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/newswire/roman-abramov...
I was born in Teesside and lived there until recently. The idea of a government subsidizing a Canadian steel plant owned by Roman Abramovic while it ignores it's own failing industry in the same sector absolutely boils my blood.
Don't have a problem with that? Doesn't really cost the government anything and can help jobs in the UK. http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/newswire/roman-abramov...
I was born in Teesside and lived there until recently. The idea of a government subsidizing a Canadian steel plant owned by Roman Abramovic while it ignores it's own failing industry in the same sector absolutely boils my blood.
Just because the main company isn't UK owned doesn't mean they don't employ thousands of people directly and indirectly in the UK.
The Don of Croy said:
It would be nice to think our government could do something about the parlous state of British iron and steel production.
But then it would also be nice to think an island floating on coal might use it's natural resources to best effect.
But until we get over the thought we're leading the World in environmental sustainability bolleaux we're hamstrung.
Still, it's nothing an upsurge in immigration can't solve...
Just the mention of coal, please, don't get me started! But then it would also be nice to think an island floating on coal might use it's natural resources to best effect.
But until we get over the thought we're leading the World in environmental sustainability bolleaux we're hamstrung.
Still, it's nothing an upsurge in immigration can't solve...
I was against the principles of shale gas, or at least the uncertainty and unforeseen consequences of the methodology of extraction. Now feel more at ease and see it as the way forward for moderately priced energy.
Still would prefer clean coal technology to be developed and our coal mines opened using tech' for extraction methods. Maybe sometime in the future, hope.
Still would prefer clean coal technology to be developed and our coal mines opened using tech' for extraction methods. Maybe sometime in the future, hope.
crankedup said:
I was against the principles of shale gas, or at least the uncertainty and unforeseen consequences of the methodology of extraction. Now feel more at ease and see it as the way forward for moderately priced energy.
Still would prefer clean coal technology to be developed and our coal mines opened using tech' for extraction methods. Maybe sometime in the future, hope.
nice idea, but there is no way we can ever re-open deep coal mines here again, quite apart from the H&S issues, nobody these days would want to work down one, which only leaves open-cast, which most people will simply not tolerate.Still would prefer clean coal technology to be developed and our coal mines opened using tech' for extraction methods. Maybe sometime in the future, hope.
Shale gas is many times easier/cleaner/cheaper.
Not sure if already known, but I think today/yesterday they have decided thats it. The ovens are going off, some parts of the plant have already been taken for scrap. The guys left are of the opinion that once the ovens have gone cold, thats it. game over.
Sad for all involved. Sad for my Home (Middlesbrough). Even if your dad didn't work at the steel works you didn't have to go through many friends to find someones dad who did. My Dad started out there but got into Oil, he said it was a great place to work back in the day.
My Mother still works at what was only very recently the RD&T center for the steel works. TATA actually wanted rid and the management performed a by-out to have it run off its own back providing RD&T skills to the steel works and other industry. I haven't been told anything bad by my mum so I am assuming they are fine for now! I believe they are called MPI now.
Sad for all involved. Sad for my Home (Middlesbrough). Even if your dad didn't work at the steel works you didn't have to go through many friends to find someones dad who did. My Dad started out there but got into Oil, he said it was a great place to work back in the day.
My Mother still works at what was only very recently the RD&T center for the steel works. TATA actually wanted rid and the management performed a by-out to have it run off its own back providing RD&T skills to the steel works and other industry. I haven't been told anything bad by my mum so I am assuming they are fine for now! I believe they are called MPI now.
Tata mothballed Llanwern did they not?
Redcar did not make strip either (did they? thought it was just rolled steel beams etc?)
http://www.tatasteeleurope.com/en/news/news/focusi...
Redcar did not make strip either (did they? thought it was just rolled steel beams etc?)
http://www.tatasteeleurope.com/en/news/news/focusi...
lackenby strip mill closed, as did workington. maybe 10yrs ago now?
tata's redcar mill is heavy section, beams upto 1.0m. this may part of the old lackenby works, not sure on the history of that site tbh.
scunny has primary steelmaking, a bloom/billet mill [feedstock], section mill [smaller stuff and rail], plate mill and a wire & rod mill.
rotherham has a section mill. corby does tube. port talbot both have primary steel making [and ijmuiden in NL] and roll strip. north wales [shotton] has a secondary manufacturing plant - galvanising/coating strip.
i think thats it for manufacturing, loads of other bits to it though. looks like the rail consulting division is doing good business by the amount of jobs they have advertised.
didn't know llanwern had closed. when was that?
tata's redcar mill is heavy section, beams upto 1.0m. this may part of the old lackenby works, not sure on the history of that site tbh.
scunny has primary steelmaking, a bloom/billet mill [feedstock], section mill [smaller stuff and rail], plate mill and a wire & rod mill.
rotherham has a section mill. corby does tube. port talbot both have primary steel making [and ijmuiden in NL] and roll strip. north wales [shotton] has a secondary manufacturing plant - galvanising/coating strip.
i think thats it for manufacturing, loads of other bits to it though. looks like the rail consulting division is doing good business by the amount of jobs they have advertised.
didn't know llanwern had closed. when was that?
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