Another US Campus mass shooting.

[Zod]

OpulentBob said:

How a significant proportion of gun owners imagine themselves during a "home invasion":



The reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rGnMKszxg

Exactly. How many reports do you see of Americans using their guns successfully to defend themselves against burglaries, rape, assault or murder attempts? When guns held by private Americans kill people, it is rarely if ever criminals, but children messing with unsecured parental guns, domestic disputes, suicides, mass shootings or paranoid fools shooting innocent people in their neighbourhoods.

[Oakey]

5ohmustang said:

Statistics, sure. Who's statistics? The democratics? Have you actually lived in the U.S. for more than a few weeks?

200 year old law? And how old are the outdated laws in the UK? Whose country has a how many hundred year old monarchy that obtained power through murder and oppression.

Sandy hook is a prime example of a gun free zone. Cops have guns, the military has guns, bodyguards, security guards yet children are not valued enough to have armed school security guards?

The American people have spoken, as for you liberals keep on having a victim mentality. Enjoy your socialist lives, i'm out.

Right, because as Jim Jefferies said, Kevin the Security Guard with his pistol on $16 an hour is really incentivised to be a fking hero

[chrispmartha]

5ohmustang said:

Statistics, sure. Who's statistics? The democratics? Have you actually lived in the U.S. for more than a few weeks?

200 year old law? And how old are the outdated laws in the UK? Whose country has a how many hundred year old monarchy that obtained power through murder and oppression.

Sandy hook is a prime example of a gun free zone. Cops have guns, the military has guns, bodyguards, security guards yet children are not valued enough to have armed school security guards?

The American people have spoken, as for you liberals keep on having a victim mentality. Enjoy your socialist lives, i'm out.

Ive got a statistic for you

994 mass shootings in 1,004 days

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/...


Your country is in a mess my friend.

[Digga]

I read an excellent book last year, an account of a round the world cycle trip by a (well known) chap called Mark Beaumont. His circumnavigation of the globe crossed some pretty interesting territory to say the least and yet, the place he said he felt the least safe and most threatened?

The USA. In fact, it was only on reaching this penultimate country before returning to the UK that he encountered serious crime and injury. Very sad, because on the other hand, he was also very taken with how genuinely kind, honest and welcoming a lot of Americans were.

ETA route map:

Edited by Digga on Monday 5th October 16:31

[TankRizzo]

5ohmustang said:

Statistics, sure. Who's statistics? The democratics? Have you actually lived in the U.S. for more than a few weeks?

200 year old law? And how old are the outdated laws in the UK? Whose country has a how many hundred year old monarchy that obtained power through murder and oppression.

Sandy hook is a prime example of a gun free zone. Cops have guns, the military has guns, bodyguards, security guards yet children are not valued enough to have armed school security guards?

The American people have spoken, as for you liberals keep on having a victim mentality. Enjoy your socialist lives, i'm out.

I swear you want to end up in a terrible dystopia where everyone is armed and nobody is safe.

[zygalski]

doogz said:

So the solution to the problem of guns being in schools, is to pay people to take guns to every school in the whole country, every day, to stand about and make sure if anyone else brings their gun, they can stop them.

I read an article the other day, talking about this school shooting, and how it was the worst mass shooting in America since...

June. In a church.

And the crazy part is, American people don't seem to see that in itself, is an utterly ludicrous thing to have read.

You're brainwashed. And you're convinced you're not.

American's bang on about sharia law and muslim terrorists, and you're the worst in the whole entire fking world.

I'm not convinced tighter US gun controls are the panacea that some people seem to think they are. In fact, I'm pretty certain that more restrictions for firearm ownership would make very little (if any) difference to the number of headline incidents like this.
With cultural & mental health considerations & the 200m+ guns floating around in the US I very much doubt that the kind of people you'd most like not to have access to a gun would be in the queue to voluntarily hand them in.

[longshot]

5ohmustang said:

Statistics, sure. Who's statistics? The democratics? Have you actually lived in the U.S. for more than a few weeks?

200 year old law? And how old are the outdated laws in the UK? Whose country has a how many hundred year old monarchy that obtained power through murder and oppression.

Sandy hook is a prime example of a gun free zone. Cops have guns, the military has guns, bodyguards, security guards yet children are not valued enough to have armed school security guards?

The American people have spoken, as for you liberals keep on having a victim mentality. Enjoy your socialist lives, i'm out.

fk! That's my evening's entertainment out the window.

Edited by longshot on Monday 5th October 16:42

[zygalski]

doogz said:

zygalski said:

I'm not convinced tighter US gun controls are the panacea that some people seem to think they are. In fact, I'm pretty certain that more restrictions for firearm ownership would make very little (if any) difference to the number of headline incidents like this.
With cultural & mental health considerations & the 200m+ guns floating around in the US I'm not convinced that the people you'd most like not to have access to a gun would be in the queue to voluntarily hand them in.

We used to have guns in this country.

The people that you didn't want to have them probably didn't all come running to hand in their illegal firearms.

But a good few years on, and look at the situation here.

I see what you're saying, but as far as solutions to the problem go, doing nothing is a bit st.

Even ignoring the US historical constitution frontier nonsense, in the UK we weren't exactly swamped with a total amount of 88.8 guns per 100 people. The amount of guns here was always tiny in comparison, so legislation impacted only a very small % of the population. Then there's American youth gang culture. A large chunk of the young male population think that carrying a gun around on the street is at the very least de rigeur or even totally necessary in many urban areas.

[creampuff]

Well I've had a day off and see it's the same idiots laughing at stupid redneck survivalist crazy gun toting Americans.

I'm sitting down in a Pret, enjoying a large baguette. It's almost 12 inches long. As long as the penis I wish I had but which I'm informed by Breadvan and a couple of others on this thread, a penis which I clearly don't have since I require a gun to substitute for it. Gotta love those balanced anti-gunners.

Anyway I have a copy of today's Wall Street Journal in front of me, next to the baguette. On page 8 is an interesting article about mass shootings. It seems the USA does not Infact lead the world in mass shootings. Seems Switzerland, Finland, Norway and Russia all have more mass shootings, adjusted for population. Germany actually has the highest number of mass shooting events, but they have had a lower number of fatalities.

I'll return to my baguette now while you idiots think up another way to poke fun at gun owners.

Edited by creampuff on Monday 5th October 17:30

[AJL308]

La Liga said:

I don't think it's about banning guns in the US. There are countries with high rates of gun ownership without the issues. Switzerland, for example. It's about trying to figure out what needs to be done to decrease gun deaths and start to implement those things.

The answer is precisely what I said many pages ago; the Americans need to learn to stop treating the less fortunate in society like st. As I correctly predicted, the person who carried out this latest shooting was a weirdo loner type withe few friends and mental issues. I'm sure it will come out that he was treated like crap by pretty much everyone else for most of his life too.

They need to produce far fewer violent movies, far fewer ultra-violent video games, tone down the reporting of shootings like this (or just don't report them) and get some decent public mental health programs in place.

[zygalski]

doogz said:

zygalski said:

Even ignoring the US historical constitution frontier nonsense, in the UK we weren't exactly swamped with a total amount of 88.8 guns per 100 people. The amount of guns here was always tiny in comparison, so legislation impacted only a very small % of the population. Then there's American youth gang culture. A large chunk of the young male population think that carrying a gun around on the street is at the very least de rigeur or even totally necessary in many urban areas.

And that can never be changed so don't bother to try?

Sadly I think in the current climate the only way meaningful legislation will come into being in the US is if there's a mass killing at an NRA conference or if a leading Republican & his or her family get shot to pieces by a nut-job.
As I say though, the people you least want to have guns are also the least likely to hand them in as part of any amnesty.

[creampuff]

The article was about mass shootings, not firearms. The total firearms rate in the US includes suicides. Not that there are any more suicides in the US than the UK, Americans just tend to use guns. Unlike the banning brigade on this thread, the authors actually bothered to do research. And not that anybody should accept shootings to be acceptable either. The automatic weapons you mention are already banned, but the anti-gun brigade on this thread isn't interested in learning anything so it isn't a surprise that somebody has got automatic weapons wrong again for about the fifth time on this thread.

[Corpulent Tosser]

AJL308 said:

Corpulent Tosser said:

I never mention unfettered access.

Gun ownership has never been common in Britain, so the virtual ban post Dunblane affected very few people, it was popular, unnecessary in my opinion but popular, so the government did it.

Gun ownership is ingrained in the American way of life and a ban is not going to work there, gun control can work, but even that will have minimal effect.

Edited by Corpulent Tosser on Saturday 3rd October 14:55

Not true. Historically gun ownership in the UK was at huge levels. There were hundreds of gunmakers and related professions in Birmingham alone at one time.

There were essentially no gun laws at all until 1903 and none of much significance until the 1920's. Ten year olds could legally purchase firearms. Until 1969 a shotgun licence was available on demand at the Post Office with no checks on the person. It wasn't even until 1988 that shotguns were brought into a registration scheme which identified individual guns.

The USA was enacting gun laws decades before we did.

Huge levels?
I don't think that is correct but if you have a reference to early levels of gun ownership I would be interested to see it, there were laws against carrying guns in the 1800s, though they were still legal to own it was not commonplace like it was and still is in the US.

[AJL308]

gavsdavs said:

You're not, actually, *serious* about that statement are you ?

Yes. How many firearms are there in the USA and how many accidental fatalities are there each year? Find out then compare with motor vehicles. Firearms are a much safer consumer product than motor vehicles.

[WinstonWolf]

doogz said:

creampuff said:

The article was about mass shootings, not firearms. The total firearms rate in the US includes suicides. Not that there are any more suicides in the US than the UK, Americans just tend to use guns. Unlike the banning brigade on this thread, the authors actually bothered to do research. And not that anybody should accept shootings to be acceptable either. The automatic weapons you mention are already banned, but the anti-gun brigade on this thread isn't interested in learning anything so it isn't a surprise that somebody has got automatic weapons wrong again for about the fifth time on this thread.

Oh well.

All of that makes killing kids in schools on a regular basis ok then.

Good work. Problem solved.

400,000 gun deaths since 2001 but all is well. Move along, nothing to see here...

[zygalski]

AJL308 said:

Yes. How many firearms are there in the USA and how many accidental fatalities are there each year? Find out then compare with motor vehicles. Firearms are a much safer consumer product than motor vehicles.

Totally irrelevant comparison. The vast majority of the 200m+ guns in the US probably never even get used, whereas a car will get used maybe a couple of hours a week on average. You can't compare the risk of 2 things that have vastly different exposure rates.

[durbster]

creampuff said:

Anyway I have a copy of today's Wall Street Journal in front of me, next to the baguette. On page 8 is an interesting article about mass shootings. It seems the USA does not Infact lead the world in mass shootings. Seems Switzerland, Finland, Norway and Russia all have more mass shootings, adjusted for population. Germany actually has the highest number of mass shooting events, but they have had a lower number of fatalities.

Cause for celebration?

I've just had a quick look into this. Haven't got time to check the stats (this suggests it's not correct: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/27/health/u-s-most-... but does the article also state that all of those countries responded to mass shootings by considering changes to their gun-laws?

Except Russia, but Russia is mental.

[AJL308]

doogz said:

We used to have guns in this country.

The people that you didn't want to have them probably didn't all come running to hand in their illegal firearms.

But a good few years on, and look at the situation here.

I see what you're saying, but as far as solutions to the problem go, doing nothing is a bit st.

Doing nothing is not what anyone is suggesting. More gun laws won't work though as people simply won't adhere to them if they think they are too stringent - moreover, they wont be enforced as those charged with the enforcing are gun owners too. In many places stringent new gun laws will result in outright civil war, or something pretty close to it. If anyone thinks there is going to be a mas gun confiscation in somewhere like Texas then they are high, quite honestly.

The answer is much more tricky and involves Americans treating one another with a bit of civility and respect, especially the less fortunate or slightly weird members of society, reducing the endless cycle of mindlessly violent TV shows, video games and films and not glorifying the types of weirdos who perpetrate this st. It also involves some sort of comprehensive public mental health initiative.

The politicians like Hilary Clinton who consistently jump of the "we need some sensible gun laws" band wagon every time this kind of thing happens are just as culpable as they claim the NRA are because they know that it will never happen and won't solve the problem anyway. They know they will never actually have to do anything about it but it sounds good and makes them look nice and caring.

[longblackcoat]

creampuff said:

Not that there are any more suicides in the US than the UK, Americans just tend to use guns..

You continue to make yourself look foolish. Unless you think the World Health Organisation just make stuff up, the suicide rate in the US is 12.1/100,000 population. The comparable figure in the UK is 6.2.

But yeah, the rates are the same.

creampuff said:

The authors actually bothered to do research

Unlike you, perhaps?

[AJL308]

zygalski said:

Even ignoring the US historical constitution frontier nonsense, in the UK we weren't exactly swamped with a total amount of 88.8 guns per 100 people. The amount of guns here was always tiny in comparison, so legislation impacted only a very small % of the population.

As I pointed out before that isn't true. We had a massive gun industry until comparatively recently. We just didn't have the same fondness for shooting each other though that the Americans seem to have.