Another US Campus mass shooting.
Discussion
WinstonWolf said:
You need to read the thread again, one of our resident rednecks suggested it.
The post I reas, which was misinterpreted by a following poster said that armed guards should be allowed in Schools (which are currently 'gun free zones' by law), not that children should be allowed to carry guns. Oakey said:
NYTimes said:
In an online forum, answering a question about state gun laws several years ago, Ms. Harper took a jab at “lame states” that impose limits on keeping loaded firearms in the home, and noted that she had AR-15 and AK-47 semiautomatic rifles, along with a Glock handgun. She also indicated that her son, who lived with her, was well versed in guns, citing him as her source of information on gun laws, saying he “has much knowledge in this field.”
“I keep two full mags in my Glock case. And the ARs & AKs all have loaded mags,” Ms. Harper wrote. “No one will be ‘dropping’ by my house uninvited without acknowledgement.”
Neighbors in Southern California have said that Ms. Harper and her son would go to shooting ranges together, something Ms. Harper seemed to confirm in one of her online posts. She talked about the importance of firearms safety and said she learned a lot through target shooting, expressing little patience with unprepared gun owners: “When I’m at the range, I cringe every time the ‘wannabes’ show up.”
Alexis Jefferson, who worked with Ms. Harper at a Southern California subacute care center around 2010, said the gunman’s mother sometimes confided the difficulties she had in raising her son, including that she had placed Mr. Harper-Mercer in a psychiatric hospital when he did not take his medication.
“She said that ‘my son is a real big problem of mine,’ ” Ms. Jefferson said in a telephone interview. “She said: ‘He has some psychological problems. Sometimes he takes his medication, sometimes he doesn’t. And that’s where the big problem is, when he doesn’t take his medication.’ ”
The scary part is that she's a nurse, and she still let him be around firearms despite the above. Mind boggling. “I keep two full mags in my Glock case. And the ARs & AKs all have loaded mags,” Ms. Harper wrote. “No one will be ‘dropping’ by my house uninvited without acknowledgement.”
Neighbors in Southern California have said that Ms. Harper and her son would go to shooting ranges together, something Ms. Harper seemed to confirm in one of her online posts. She talked about the importance of firearms safety and said she learned a lot through target shooting, expressing little patience with unprepared gun owners: “When I’m at the range, I cringe every time the ‘wannabes’ show up.”
Alexis Jefferson, who worked with Ms. Harper at a Southern California subacute care center around 2010, said the gunman’s mother sometimes confided the difficulties she had in raising her son, including that she had placed Mr. Harper-Mercer in a psychiatric hospital when he did not take his medication.
“She said that ‘my son is a real big problem of mine,’ ” Ms. Jefferson said in a telephone interview. “She said: ‘He has some psychological problems. Sometimes he takes his medication, sometimes he doesn’t. And that’s where the big problem is, when he doesn’t take his medication.’ ”
WinstonWolf said:
It is not *normal* in any sense of the word. Thinking it's *normal* or *OK*, that's the problem.
It is "normal". Lots and lots of people around the world have children who use firearms under supervision.It happens on a large scale hence it is normal. Just because the majority of people don't do it doesn't make it abnormal. If lots of people do something on a regular basis then it is by definition, normal.
AJL308 said:
WinstonWolf said:
It is not *normal* in any sense of the word. Thinking it's *normal* or *OK*, that's the problem.
It is "normal". Lots and lots of people around the world have children who use firearms under supervision.It happens on a large scale hence it is normal. Just because the majority of people don't do it doesn't make it abnormal. If lots of people do something on a regular basis then it is by definition, normal.
Our teenagers fall out just as much, generally speaking they punch each other but live to tell the tale. That's *normal*.
http://firsttoknow.com/7-year-old-boy-shoots-himse...
7 year old. .22. Properly supervised by his father.
7 year old. .22. Properly supervised by his father.
article said:
“the boy appeared properly supervised and the shooting range complied with safety standards.”
One has to feel for the kids, after all not their fault that they are born to parents with IQ less than the calibre of their guns. Edited by jjlynn27 on Wednesday 7th October 22:57
WinstonWolf said:
And here's the killer(sic), lots of children die precisely because they have access to guns.
Our teenagers fall out just as much, generally speaking they punch each other but live to tell the tale. That's *normal*.
No, we are talking about *supervised* use in a sporting environment, not about simple 'access' to guns by kids. You clearly didn't read the circumstances which were specifically made clear by the other poster. Our teenagers fall out just as much, generally speaking they punch each other but live to tell the tale. That's *normal*.
AJL308 said:
Lucas CAV said:
Either way, letting an 8 year old anywhere near a gun is at best bizarre.
What has his profession got to do with anything either?
It isn't in the least bit bizarre. It's a normal and quite common sporting pursuit.What has his profession got to do with anything either?
Edited by mackie1 on Wednesday 7th October 23:10
jjlynn27 said:
One has to feel for the kids, after all not their fault that they are born and have parents with an IQ less than the calibre of their guns.
An accident. They happen unfortunately.The kid was supervised and the range was operated to a proper standard. It wasn't a 'gun' issue per-se. People die doing all sorts of sporting activities. If the kid had died riding a bike or drowned in the family pool would you also be critical of his parents intelligence? Would you be calling f kids not to be allowed to ride bikes or learn to swim?
OMG, I'm shocked, shocked to find that 10 year olds are getting Shotgun Certificates in England.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10601666
Won't somebody think of the children?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10601666
Won't somebody think of the children?
I guess what's normal is relative. I spent a lot of time in Central America as a kid. I don't remember the first time I fired a Browning or M16 but I was 13 when I fired an M60, fully auto, it didn't seem all that remarkable at the time but after living 20 years in the UK subsequently I guess it was. 
This article assesses the notion that a good guy with a gun is the effective counter to a bad guy with a gun. Its conclusions won't please creampuff et al, but they will brush them aside in the usual way.
http://www.thenation.com/article/combat-vets-destr...
http://www.thenation.com/article/combat-vets-destr...
From that article: "While a number of conservatives declared that Oregon’s Umpqua Community College, the scene of a mass shooting last week, was a gun-free zone, the truth is that several concealed carry holders were present, and they wisely decided to leave their guns holstered. Veteran John Parker later explained to MSNBC, “We could have opened ourselves up to be potential targets ourselves, and not knowing where SWAT was… if we had our guns ready to shoot, they could think that we were bad guys.”
If even the responsible ones ignore gun free zones, then is there much hope?
Also, this seems screamingly obvious:
"It’s insane,” says Stephen Benson. He recalls an anecdote from his first pistol class in basic training. “We put on our issue .45s, and our instructor said, ‘Gentlemen, the first and most important thing you’ve done by putting on that weapon is you’ve increased your chances of being in a gunfight by 100 percent.’ That’s a lesson that a lot of people don’t get. More guns means more gunfights. And the idea that in a chaotic, pressurized, terrifying situation, they’re going to do the right thing is ridiculous.”
If even the responsible ones ignore gun free zones, then is there much hope?
Also, this seems screamingly obvious:
"It’s insane,” says Stephen Benson. He recalls an anecdote from his first pistol class in basic training. “We put on our issue .45s, and our instructor said, ‘Gentlemen, the first and most important thing you’ve done by putting on that weapon is you’ve increased your chances of being in a gunfight by 100 percent.’ That’s a lesson that a lot of people don’t get. More guns means more gunfights. And the idea that in a chaotic, pressurized, terrifying situation, they’re going to do the right thing is ridiculous.”
Edited by OpulentBob on Thursday 8th October 07:01
AJL308 said:
An accident. They happen unfortunately.
The kid was supervised and the range was operated to a proper standard. It wasn't a 'gun' issue per-se. People die doing all sorts of sporting activities. If the kid had died riding a bike or drowned in the family pool would you also be critical of his parents intelligence? Would you be calling f kids not to be allowed to ride bikes or learn to swim?
Wasn't uzi girl shooting an instructor also an accident? If a kid dies riding a bicycle while 'properly supervised' I'll compare their parents with gun brandishing hillbilies. I heard that those pedals and bells are quite deadly when they ricochet. The kid was supervised and the range was operated to a proper standard. It wasn't a 'gun' issue per-se. People die doing all sorts of sporting activities. If the kid had died riding a bike or drowned in the family pool would you also be critical of his parents intelligence? Would you be calling f kids not to be allowed to ride bikes or learn to swim?
But there is always an excuse. And it always boils to 'meh, it's happening to someone else who probably don't know what they are doing, are irresponsible etc.'
'Why do you like your gun?'
Perfectly normal.
AJL308 said:
WinstonWolf said:
And here's the killer(sic), lots of children die precisely because they have access to guns.
Our teenagers fall out just as much, generally speaking they punch each other but live to tell the tale. That's *normal*.
No, we are talking about *supervised* use in a sporting environment, not about simple 'access' to guns by kids. You clearly didn't read the circumstances which were specifically made clear by the other poster. Our teenagers fall out just as much, generally speaking they punch each other but live to tell the tale. That's *normal*.
I think that at the heart of this issue is the fact that a lot of "normal" intelligent N. Americans own or support the ownership of handguns.
Some are undoubtedly people you'd rather not be armed with anything more lethal than a spoon, but by no means all.
N. America clearly has a huge problem with firearms deaths, but until those people change their attitudes, the country will stay awash with guns, and sadly the death rate will stay astronomical.
My sister was in Somalia back when, and was horrified at the casual attitude the American military had towards gun-toting locals. Other forces wanted stricter confiscation of toys like light machine guns etc.
Some are undoubtedly people you'd rather not be armed with anything more lethal than a spoon, but by no means all.
N. America clearly has a huge problem with firearms deaths, but until those people change their attitudes, the country will stay awash with guns, and sadly the death rate will stay astronomical.
My sister was in Somalia back when, and was horrified at the casual attitude the American military had towards gun-toting locals. Other forces wanted stricter confiscation of toys like light machine guns etc.
OpulentBob said:
From that article: "While a number of conservatives declared that Oregon’s Umpqua Community College, the scene of a mass shooting last week, was a gun-free zone, the truth is that several concealed carry holders were present, and they wisely decided to leave their guns holstered. Veteran John Parker later explained to MSNBC, “We could have opened ourselves up to be potential targets ourselves, and not knowing where SWAT was… if we had our guns ready to shoot, they could think that we were bad guys.”
If even the responsible ones ignore gun free zones, then is there much hope?
Also, this seems screamingly obvious:
"It’s insane,” says Stephen Benson. He recalls an anecdote from his first pistol class in basic training. “We put on our issue .45s, and our instructor said, ‘Gentlemen, the first and most important thing you’ve done by putting on that weapon is you’ve increased your chances of being in a gunfight by 100 percent.’ That’s a lesson that a lot of people don’t get. More guns means more gunfights. And the idea that in a chaotic, pressurized, terrifying situation, they’re going to do the right thing is ridiculous.”
Don't forget this piece of 'comedy gold'If even the responsible ones ignore gun free zones, then is there much hope?
Also, this seems screamingly obvious:
"It’s insane,” says Stephen Benson. He recalls an anecdote from his first pistol class in basic training. “We put on our issue .45s, and our instructor said, ‘Gentlemen, the first and most important thing you’ve done by putting on that weapon is you’ve increased your chances of being in a gunfight by 100 percent.’ That’s a lesson that a lot of people don’t get. More guns means more gunfights. And the idea that in a chaotic, pressurized, terrifying situation, they’re going to do the right thing is ridiculous.”
Edited by OpulentBob on Thursday 8th October 07:01
Article said:
A case in Texas two weeks ago highlights the risks of civilians intervening in chaotic situations. Police say that as two carjackers struggled with the owner of a car at a gas station in northeast Houston, a witness decided to take action into his own hands. He fired several shots, but missed the perpetrators and shot the owner of the car in the head. He then picked up his shell casings and fled the scene. Police are still looking for the shooter.
Oakey said:
Article said:
A case in Texas two weeks ago highlights the risks of civilians intervening in chaotic situations. Police say that as two carjackers struggled with the owner of a car at a gas station in northeast Houston, a witness decided to take action into his own hands. He fired several shots, but missed the perpetrators and shot the owner of the car in the head. He then picked up his shell casings and fled the scene. Police are still looking for the shooter.
Corpulent Tosser said:
Oakey said:
Article said:
A case in Texas two weeks ago highlights the risks of civilians intervening in chaotic situations. Police say that as two carjackers struggled with the owner of a car at a gas station in northeast Houston, a witness decided to take action into his own hands. He fired several shots, but missed the perpetrators and shot the owner of the car in the head. He then picked up his shell casings and fled the scene. Police are still looking for the shooter.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/texas-good-guy-wit...
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