Cut old people's benefits, they'll die soon anyway
Discussion
So he basically said cut the pensions, they'll forget who cut it, or they'll die soon any way
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965
wow, thats cold, real cold.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965
wow, thats cold, real cold.
If you actually read what he says:
ETA - it looks like the BBC have reported him accurately and it's your headline that misrepresents. Have you considered a career in journalism?
article said:
The cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons", said Mr Wild.
...
"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately..."
...
"We are borrowing from the next generation to spend today. That is otherwise known as a Ponzi scheme," he said.
...
He added: "If you continue to overspend there will be a day of reckoning."
it's all true. But it'll give the BBC and the Grauniad some easy headlines....
"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately..."
...
"We are borrowing from the next generation to spend today. That is otherwise known as a Ponzi scheme," he said.
...
He added: "If you continue to overspend there will be a day of reckoning."
ETA - it looks like the BBC have reported him accurately and it's your headline that misrepresents. Have you considered a career in journalism?
Alex Wild said: the cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election”
Two reasons were given:
1/ some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election.
2/ they might have forgotten by then.
The headline on the BBC site states:
Taxpayers' Alliance: Cut pensioner benefits 'immediately'.
This seems to me to be a reasonable and supportable distillation, one without the hype of, say, a Daily Mail sub-editor.
Others could be that the choice of cuts should be decided not on need but solely on the likelihood of those hits hardest voting against the tories at the next election.
Wild also goes on to say that they have broken the opposition. Read into that what you may but it seems to me this bloke is suggesting that they can attack historic labour voters as partiality won’t cost them the election.
There are two points here, cleverly mixed. That the budget deficit has to be reduced and that pensioner should be targeted as their votes are of no consequence. It is possible to believe that the first part is correct without supporting ‘ponzi’ schemes.
One thing I agree with Wild on:
“[This] might be one of those things I regret saying in later life.” Let’s hope that is proved correct and later is not too long away.
A nasty thing to say. The BBC headline is, I think, a bit of a cop out. Much too mild.
Edited to add:
Cut old people's benefits, they'll die soon anyway seems to me to be reasonable given Wild said "some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election"
Two reasons were given:
1/ some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election.
2/ they might have forgotten by then.
The headline on the BBC site states:
Taxpayers' Alliance: Cut pensioner benefits 'immediately'.
This seems to me to be a reasonable and supportable distillation, one without the hype of, say, a Daily Mail sub-editor.
Others could be that the choice of cuts should be decided not on need but solely on the likelihood of those hits hardest voting against the tories at the next election.
Wild also goes on to say that they have broken the opposition. Read into that what you may but it seems to me this bloke is suggesting that they can attack historic labour voters as partiality won’t cost them the election.
There are two points here, cleverly mixed. That the budget deficit has to be reduced and that pensioner should be targeted as their votes are of no consequence. It is possible to believe that the first part is correct without supporting ‘ponzi’ schemes.
One thing I agree with Wild on:
“[This] might be one of those things I regret saying in later life.” Let’s hope that is proved correct and later is not too long away.
A nasty thing to say. The BBC headline is, I think, a bit of a cop out. Much too mild.
Edited to add:
Cut old people's benefits, they'll die soon anyway seems to me to be reasonable given Wild said "some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election"
Edited by Derek Smith on Monday 5th October 07:35
Taken on its own I agree, taken with the consideration we are letting anyone who manages to illegally enter the country stay here on benefits and paid for housing and free health care it becomes less palatable.
If we are going to fix the roof it's no good leaving the back door wide open.
If we are going to fix the roof it's no good leaving the back door wide open.
journalism, nah I would be crap at that, I wouldn't be able to suppress my conscience enough.
Same reason I would be rubbish in politics.
I'm just saying its a very cold harsh thing to say and no MP would dare say that directly, unless their in a ultra safe seat like Liam Fox is.
Its also highly insulting what to the old what Alex wild said.
Liam also 100% about labour being a very broken force right now.
Cutting the winter fuel allowance, that will kill people though, the only fair way would be to means test that payment.
Same reason I would be rubbish in politics.
I'm just saying its a very cold harsh thing to say and no MP would dare say that directly, unless their in a ultra safe seat like Liam Fox is.
Its also highly insulting what to the old what Alex wild said.
Liam also 100% about labour being a very broken force right now.
Cutting the winter fuel allowance, that will kill people though, the only fair way would be to means test that payment.
grumbledoak said:
If you actually read what he says:
ETA - it looks like the BBC have reported him accurately and it's your headline that misrepresents. Have you considered a career in journalism?
Unless im reading it wrong, it was Wild that said the (rather horrible) comments about the old gimmers not being here this year, and Fox the line about "borrowing from the next generation".article said:
The cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons", said Mr Wild.
...
"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately..."
...
"We are borrowing from the next generation to spend today. That is otherwise known as a Ponzi scheme," he said.
...
He added: "If you continue to overspend there will be a day of reckoning."
it's all true. But it'll give the BBC and the Grauniad some easy headlines....
"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately..."
...
"We are borrowing from the next generation to spend today. That is otherwise known as a Ponzi scheme," he said.
...
He added: "If you continue to overspend there will be a day of reckoning."
ETA - it looks like the BBC have reported him accurately and it's your headline that misrepresents. Have you considered a career in journalism?
Im only going by the BBC link in the OP.
Funny thing about those pensioners.
Those with any savings have been supporting younger families for the last ten years in this country based on the political interference with artificially low interest rates.
Secondly even allowing for the fact that some of them will die by the next election, there will still be a greater proportion of that age group than there has been for the last election.
Methinks someone needs to explain some simple math to said idea.
Those with any savings have been supporting younger families for the last ten years in this country based on the political interference with artificially low interest rates.
Secondly even allowing for the fact that some of them will die by the next election, there will still be a greater proportion of that age group than there has been for the last election.
Methinks someone needs to explain some simple math to said idea.
V8 Fettler said:
The Tories have historically relied on the pensioner vote.
That is what has me confused, so strange to been perceived as "having a go" usually loyal votersunless they are so confident of the majority that they have, and the crap pile Labour are in, that they feel the don't need the OAP vote to win the next election.
which from what I see, is probably true.
On top of that, my experience is that the old don't forget.
The thing about the old is that they have a constant source of renewal. I'm not arguing whether bus passes and heating allowances are right or wrong, but there will always be pensioners, even if Wild get his wish fulfilled to kill them all off in cold weather, and they won't forget who took their concessions.
I use my bus pass to get into Brighton because it is so anti-car. I wander in twice a month with my wife, around 11 ish. I go into Starbucks with my laptop and do a bit of writing. My wife goes off to give the debit card a bit of a bashing. We meet up after 90 mins and then go for a light lunch.
About 30% of the crowd there are older than me. The vast majority of those who get on the bus show the yellow folder to the driver. In other words, old buggers like me bring money into the city, every day and at a time when only abscondees from the two universities bother the shopkeepers, and then mainly with a small latte that they get in a takeaway despite drinking in because it keeps warm longer. I normally buy a couple of drinks and a sticky bun.
Without the yellow card I doubt I would bother to visit Brighton.
Where I used to live there was what my wife and I called the 9.30 special, a bus that ran from Rottingdean into Brighton that contained the old biddies, about my age now, going into town to spend their hard earned pensions. It's a fair sized demographic and the high streets have customers during the day. As a member of the old biddies club now, I can see the benefits of the yellow card. It is a form of subsidy to the high street and to the bus companies. Take it away and they will require other funding to keep up the services and some shops will struggle.
The report of the death of the labour party may or may not be true. I've got doubts as it is the press suggesting it and they are mainly right of centre. However, centre politics is not dead. Never will be. A lurch to the right is not such a good idea.
The thing about the old is that they have a constant source of renewal. I'm not arguing whether bus passes and heating allowances are right or wrong, but there will always be pensioners, even if Wild get his wish fulfilled to kill them all off in cold weather, and they won't forget who took their concessions.
I use my bus pass to get into Brighton because it is so anti-car. I wander in twice a month with my wife, around 11 ish. I go into Starbucks with my laptop and do a bit of writing. My wife goes off to give the debit card a bit of a bashing. We meet up after 90 mins and then go for a light lunch.
About 30% of the crowd there are older than me. The vast majority of those who get on the bus show the yellow folder to the driver. In other words, old buggers like me bring money into the city, every day and at a time when only abscondees from the two universities bother the shopkeepers, and then mainly with a small latte that they get in a takeaway despite drinking in because it keeps warm longer. I normally buy a couple of drinks and a sticky bun.
Without the yellow card I doubt I would bother to visit Brighton.
Where I used to live there was what my wife and I called the 9.30 special, a bus that ran from Rottingdean into Brighton that contained the old biddies, about my age now, going into town to spend their hard earned pensions. It's a fair sized demographic and the high streets have customers during the day. As a member of the old biddies club now, I can see the benefits of the yellow card. It is a form of subsidy to the high street and to the bus companies. Take it away and they will require other funding to keep up the services and some shops will struggle.
cirian75 said:
That is what has me confused, so strange to been perceived as "having a go" usually loyal voters
unless they are so confident of the majority that they have, and the crap pile Labour are in, that they feel the don't need the OAP vote to win the next election.
which from what I see, is probably true.
Not only that, but showing contempt for them is not a good idea either. The pensioner vote is massive. The threats to pensions and their income from labour is what makes most vote tory. unless they are so confident of the majority that they have, and the crap pile Labour are in, that they feel the don't need the OAP vote to win the next election.
which from what I see, is probably true.
The report of the death of the labour party may or may not be true. I've got doubts as it is the press suggesting it and they are mainly right of centre. However, centre politics is not dead. Never will be. A lurch to the right is not such a good idea.
Edited by Derek Smith on Monday 5th October 09:19
Eric Mc said:
Not all pensioners' benefits are essential to life. There are plenty of pensioners who wouldn't notice such cuts e.g. - free bus travel, free TV licences etc.
Tbh the winter fuel allowance is not needed by those who pay tax at 40% and over and that is another group who probably wouldn't miss it financially.Exactly. There is no way I would contemplate a society where those who have worked and contributed to society and community all their lives were somehow dismissed as "worthless" when their working lives came to an end. That would be a cruel and callous state of affairs - and essentially what used to happen before the implementation of the State Pension before World War 1.
However, over the past 20 years or so, politicians have realised that the grey vote is more important to them than any other single sector, and far too many "perks" have been awarded to that group of society in expectation of votes in the ballot box.
I say this in the full knowledge that I am fast approaching that period in my life when free bus travel beckons.
However, over the past 20 years or so, politicians have realised that the grey vote is more important to them than any other single sector, and far too many "perks" have been awarded to that group of society in expectation of votes in the ballot box.
I say this in the full knowledge that I am fast approaching that period in my life when free bus travel beckons.
Eric Mc said:
Not all pensioners' benefits are essential to life. There are plenty of pensioners who wouldn't notice such cuts e.g. - free bus travel, free TV licences etc.
Well yes the state pension should be protected as it is going to those who have paid into it all their lives. If there is an issue with affordability then raising the retirement age always seems a better way to proceed.
In terms of the extra goodies introduced by labour. I am not entirely clear why pensioners, who are actually a fairly affluent group now, should have free bus travel and TV licences paid for by Nanny.
In respect to free bus travel there might be a case on safety grounds for the over 80s but not a blanket benefit.
The TV licence is paid for by the BBC so is less of an issue.
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