Cut old people's benefits, they'll die soon anyway

[Smollet]

cirian75 said:

So its a distraction then, what are we being distracted from ?

England going out of the RWC

[cirian75]

this how it goes, there are 3 things that are unpopular you want to do

1 and 2, you will get through, 3 will be hard, very hard, suggest a 4th outlandish thing, people will kick up a huge fuss, the 4th thing will get dropped, people will think they have won, the 3rd thing will go through much easier.

[esxste]

Rovinghawk said:

So those that pay/have paid the most in are entitled to the least out? Seems a bit inequitable to me.

Only if you don't consider the other less easily measured benefits these people get from society.

Would these people have had quite so fortunate lives were the UK a third-world country?

[SPS]

I am a pensioner and have both private and state pensions. I still pay tax on my private pension and so does my wife.
So all through my 45 years of working life (been "lucky" enough never to have been out of work - driven Ice cream vans, soft drinks deliveries, abattoir deliveries anything to keep money coming in when times got hard) I have paid my Tax and NI and in return was grateful to receive treatment from the fantastic NHS (yes it still is despite the current serious issues). On retirement I have my state pension - which by the way is way less than the minimum wage. Lucky for me I was able to also fund several company pensions so am able to top the State Pension.
My children are working full time as are their partners but we still have to run the "Bank of Mum & Dad" just to help them make ends meet each month. In addition we are unpaid baby sitters too (allowing both parents to work) - which by the way is a secret delight!!
Without us and thousands of pensioners like us many young families would not be able to afford their rent or mortgages so would basically have no place to live (oh I forgot - move back into the parents home).

So we may be old and ridiculed by certain sectors of the population BUT we still contribute and have pride in our children and will be there as long as we can to support and help them. We step in where the Government can't be arsed to do so.
Oh and I still love driving my cars so have never really accepted that I am that old

[Munter]

SPS said:

My children are working full time as are their partners but we still have to run the "Bank of Mum & Dad" just to help them make ends meet each month. In addition we are unpaid baby sitters too (allowing both parents to work) - which by the way is a secret delight!!
Without us and thousands of pensioners like us many young families would not be able to afford their rent or mortgages so would basically have no place to live (oh I forgot - move back into the parents home).

Which generation was it that created this situation?

[JagLover]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

More to do with the housing situation than state spending, or lack thereof, I would have thought.

[Mrr T]

JagLover said:

The TV licence is paid for by the BBC so is less of an issue.

While technically correct. The BBC is funded by the licence fee which in my view is a form of taxation. So cut the free licence and we can all have a reduced licence fee.

[Derek Smith]

Eric Mc said:

Not all pensioners' benefits are essential to life. There are plenty of pensioners who wouldn't notice such cuts e.g. - free bus travel, free TV licences etc.

If people don't use the free bus passes, there's no cost apart from admin fees. I've only used mine on rare occasions, and almost exclusively when going into Brighton. If I didn't have it, I'd probably, almost certainly, not gone. So benefits to the city.

I don't get free TV licences and I think it is only for those 75 and over.

If one starts means testing then the cost of such activity negates the savings to a variable extent. Further, it could work the other way as well. Should only those high earners who really need the cut in tax rates have got it?

[Derek Smith]

Munter said:

SPS said:

My children are working full time as are their partners but we still have to run the "Bank of Mum & Dad" just to help them make ends meet each month. In addition we are unpaid baby sitters too (allowing both parents to work) - which by the way is a secret delight!!
Without us and thousands of pensioners like us many young families would not be able to afford their rent or mortgages so would basically have no place to live (oh I forgot - move back into the parents home).

Which generation was it that created this situation?

The policies of a number of governments, including the current one, have caused the problem. The start was back at the time of she who mustn't be criticised, when home owning all of a sudden became a political point.

So it is hardly a generation issue.

[Derek Smith]

SPS said:

I am a pensioner and have both private and state pensions. I still pay tax on my private pension and so does my wife.
So all through my 45 years of working life (been "lucky" enough never to have been out of work - driven Ice cream vans, soft drinks deliveries, abattoir deliveries anything to keep money coming in when times got hard) I have paid my Tax and NI and in return was grateful to receive treatment from the fantastic NHS (yes it still is despite the current serious issues). On retirement I have my state pension - which by the way is way less than the minimum wage. Lucky for me I was able to also fund several company pensions so am able to top the State Pension.
My children are working full time as are their partners but we still have to run the "Bank of Mum & Dad" just to help them make ends meet each month. In addition we are unpaid baby sitters too (allowing both parents to work) - which by the way is a secret delight!!
Without us and thousands of pensioners like us many young families would not be able to afford their rent or mortgages so would basically have no place to live (oh I forgot - move back into the parents home).

So we may be old and ridiculed by certain sectors of the population BUT we still contribute and have pride in our children and will be there as long as we can to support and help them. We step in where the Government can't be arsed to do so.
Oh and I still love driving my cars so have never really accepted that I am that old

You are a mirror. Without us, my elder daughter could not have afforded to go back to work. She works part time, 3.5 days a week, so not quite full, but all my other kids and their partners work, and damned hard.

It's not so much being ridiculed that irritates me, after all I used to do the same when I was younger, but being blamed for things I had no control over. I didn't stop the building of homes. I didn't support the selling off of council houses and the banning of building more. I don't support the shutting down of housing associations. And when I was young I didn't go around blaming my parents for starting the war, which really lowered my standard of living.

A day off babysitting today. Time to build energy.

[Rovinghawk]

esxste said:

Rovinghawk said:

So those that pay/have paid the most in are entitled to the least out? Seems a bit inequitable to me.

Only if you don't consider the other less easily measured benefits these people get from society.

Would these people have had quite so fortunate lives were the UK a third-world country?

Doesn't everyone get the same opportunity to benefit from that society? Yet still some get to pay in more but are expected to be penalised later for their efforts.

As Smollet said, it's what happens. It's a long way from what I feel is right, though.

[SPS]

Munter said:

SPS said:

My children are working full time as are their partners but we still have to run the "Bank of Mum & Dad" just to help them make ends meet each month. In addition we are unpaid baby sitters too (allowing both parents to work) - which by the way is a secret delight!!
Without us and thousands of pensioners like us many young families would not be able to afford their rent or mortgages so would basically have no place to live (oh I forgot - move back into the parents home).

Which generation was it that created this situation?

You mean the generation who fought in the Second WW (without that generations sacrifice you would not have any worries would you) or their children (me) who worked all of their lives and actually paid tax and NI into the system. When we started our families credit was a bit of a nasty word to many. We had second hand beds/cookers/cots/carpets as we could not afford "Hire Purchase" - we had to live within our means or just not be able to pay the bills or eat. Or is it in part down to the multi billionaires and major corporations who have managed to "evade" paying anything like their fair share of Tax whilst enjoying the benefits for themselves and share holders while in many cases paying crap wages and zero hour contracts.
You need to understand that it's not always the people (generation) that are at fault - it's the governmental doctrines and extremely poor implementation and governance that mainly causes the social issues. How many billions have been wasted by central and local governments over the past three decades that we know of? One alone cost billions for a computer system that never even got commissioned as it did not work.
Now there is your real issue - not people who in the main have held up their end of the social "agreement" between government and citizens.

[JagLover]

SPS said:

You mean the generation who fought in the Second WW

It is the generation that came after that have been the "chosen" generation.

Bought in the 70s or 80s and house building has been constrained since to ensure rampant house price inflation.

They will usually get final salary pension schemes and for the generations to come only those working for the public sector will be so lucky.

[FredClogs]

Liam Fox is the Tories Mandleson, despicable st of a man.

[SPS]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

So what would YOU give up? I don't use the Bus Pass or get a free TV license - I do however get free prescriptions as indeed do all residents in another country up north!!!!
And if we all gave up some more benefits are you confident that these idiots we call a government and "civil servants" would actually spend the money "saved" wisely??

[dandarez]

JagLover said:

Eric Mc said:

Not all pensioners' benefits are essential to life. There are plenty of pensioners who wouldn't notice such cuts e.g. - free bus travel, free TV licences etc.

Well yes the state pension should be protected as it is going to those who have paid into it all their lives.

If there is an issue with affordability then raising the retirement age always seems a better way to proceed.

In terms of the extra goodies introduced by labour. I am not entirely clear why pensioners, who are actually a fairly affluent group now, should have free bus travel and TV licences paid for by Nanny.

In respect to free bus travel there might be a case on safety grounds for the over 80s but not a blanket benefit.

The TV licence is paid for by the BBC so is less of an issue.

Free TV licence is NOT for pensioners, it for those age 75+

Alex Wild remarks getting assessment already.
http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/alex-wild-tpa-apologi...

I'll add my thoughts about him. He's not old, far from it. Even so, he might not be around at the time of the next election. Callous, eh?

Edited by dandarez on Monday 5th October 13:16

[loose cannon]

Meanwhile back at the ranch were feeding clothing and housing and giving benefits to anybody not from this land

[cirian75]

FredClogs said:

Liam Fox is the Tories Mandleson, despicable st of a man.

He is reviled by the Army, universally hated from the lowest private to the highest General.

My old lot RDG really hate him.

[Rovinghawk]

esxste said:

Rovinghawk said:

So those that pay/have paid the most in are entitled to the least out? Seems a bit inequitable to me.

Only if you don't consider the other less easily measured benefits these people get from society.

Would these people have had quite so fortunate lives were the UK a third-world country?

Doesn't everyone get the same opportunity to benefit from that society? Yet still some get to pay in more but are expected to be penalised later for their efforts.

As Smollet said, it's what happens. It's a long way from what I feel is right, though.

[Sonic]

SPS said:

Without us and thousands of pensioners like us many young families would not be able to afford their rent or mortgages...

EFA