Goodbye Generation Rent, Hello Generation Buy

[010101]

edh said:

Land Value Tax is the answer - a long standing Liberal policy, about to be adopted by Labour as well.

IIf owning anything is just an excuse to be landed with the public debt, for what would one strive?

[benjiwengy]

kiethton said:

Its a tax on post-tax income and like IHT totally non-sensical and unjust, only way it would be palitable would be to halve income tax rates for all as a balance.

Also remember residents are transient to a degree so would just move...totally short-sighted. I doubt it'd actually help anything, either that or all listed companies would buy more investment prop and reclassify under the REIT regime...

An LVT isn't a tax on post-tax income. It is merely using rental values that would normally be capitalised into rental income/selling prices as public revenue.

So, like paying for any other good or service, the rate you pay is not dependant on your income or level of capital. This is what makes it 100% fair. It brings Public Finance onto the same ethical levels as the economic relationships between individuals and firms. ie you pay for what you use and the benefits you receive at the full market rate.

In the case of land, rights to exclude others from a natural opportunity. That's the very definition of fair. And because it's fair it aligns incentives, instead of distorting them like taxes on output do.

So, and LVT is better than neutral, because the market can then efficiently function and allocate land to the individual/firm who can put it to it's most productive use.

LVT, far from being a Socialist conspiracy, is as hardcore a Capitalism gets.

Which is why people seek to protect their privileges from it. It levels the playing field. And for some, mostly Tories, that's the very last thing they ever want to see happen.

[Randy Winkman]

Zed 44 said:

TEKNOPUG said:

So you either increase the number of houses or reduce the size of the population.

+1

What? Bump off the old folks that cost loads and don't work? That's a bit harsh.

[010101]

benjiwengy said:

So, and LVT is better than neutral, because the market can then efficiently function and allocate land to the individual/firm who can put it to it's most productive use.

What about the labour cost? Because there is a whole world of production at far lower costs than those in the UK.

The person who can most afford the long term costs wins. This is whoever has access to low rate borrowing.

Edited by 010101 on Friday 9th October 17:33

[Sheepshanks]

C.A.R. said:

One does wonder what quantity of space a pensioner needs, it certainly doesn't seem sensible to require 2 un-occupied bedrooms...

Well, the old guy next to us (mid 80's) in a biggish 3 bed detached seems to use most of it - the extra bedrooms are an office and spare room for visitors. The dining room is his music room.

C.A.R. said:

There's the other opinion of course that they've 'earned' that space for themselves, probably through years of hard work, so who are we (the younger generation) to deny them that? Well, other than pointing out that space is of a premium and the sheer number of holiday cruises they could make with the windfall they'd receive from downsizing, there's little to change the mindset.

Current pensioners are mostly loaded as they're on final salary pension schemes. New pensioners incomes are going to be relatively lower so there will likely be more focus on downsizing to gain the equity and reduce outgoings.

[edh]

kiethton said:

edh said:

kiethton said:

How would you tax it?

How would you define banked land?

The stats in a link further up/last page shows that 62% of all land held by developers is currently being built upon...so just over 1/3 isn't, not a huge amount!

What about the necessity to hold land whilst planning permission is sought or will there be a grace period/only land with planning permission...

If house-building wherever the land is forced through it'd do one of 2 things - bankrupt/put half the home-owing population in default as all values would collapse as we'd end up like spain was in 08/09....huge numbers of properties built where there is absolutely no demand for them


Oh and the other consequence - given defaults above any mortgage providing bank/organisation would likely need another, further bailout....at huge, huge cost

Land Value Tax is the answer - a long standing Liberal policy, about to be adopted by Labour as well.

Its a tax on post-tax income and like IHT totally non-sensical and unjust, only way it would be palitable would be to halve income tax rates for all as a balance.

Also remember residents are transient to a degree so would just move...totally short-sighted. I doubt it'd actually help anything, either that or all listed companies would buy more investment prop and reclassify under the REIT regime...

It's not - I suggest you do some research on the subject

Halving IT (or removing other taxes like SDLT, eer's NI etc..) would indeed be a part of a LVT implementation.
REIT or other structures have no impact - you can't hide land. It also flushes out all the land held in tax havens

[turbobloke]

Starter homes will stymie social mobility says The Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/oct/07/start...

[edh]

The government is to build 200,000 second houses to help homeowners onto the buy-to-let ladder.


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-he...

[turbobloke]

edh said:

The government is to build 200,000 second houses to help homeowners onto the buy-to-let ladder.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-he...

"Cameron (hasn't) said: 'Why should students be waking up in their childhood bedrooms when, with a little help from the government, they could be living in a new house bought by their parents and serving as the capricious, cold-eyed landlord to their friends?'"

[BlackLabel]

Well that pledge lasted long.

"But the Government has also now binned David Cameron’s flagship housing policy of building 200,000 starter homes at 20 per cent below market price, championed by the former Prime Minister just last year. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/star...

[anonymous-user]

BlackLabel said:

Well that pledge lasted long.

"But the Government has also now binned David Cameron’s flagship housing policy of building 200,000 starter homes at 20 per cent below market price, championed by the former Prime Minister just last year. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/star...

I think aunty Theresa is getting rid of everything Cameron did and all his cronies. Except Brexit of course.

[Randy Winkman]

El stovey said:

I think aunty Theresa is getting rid of everything Cameron did and all his cronies. Except Brexit of course.

As a civil servant of 33 years experience my view is that the current government is getting rid of everything that might be a little bit difficult or upset anyone. We have the most nervous government for decades.

[dandarez]

El stovey said:

BlackLabel said:

Well that pledge lasted long.

"But the Government has also now binned David Cameron’s flagship housing policy of building 200,000 starter homes at 20 per cent below market price, championed by the former Prime Minister just last year. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/star...

I think aunty Theresa is getting rid of everything Cameron did and all his cronies. Except Brexit of course.

An 'Indie' front page story.
When Camoron (who was my local MP) launched this it got quick criticism even from some Tories.

Experts did calculations 'at the time' of its launch.
This showed 'then', that any prospective buyer of one of these would likely have to earn well above the average wage in order to even consider purchasing one!
Starter Homes? It was non Starter.
His 'Help to Buy' scheme however did 'help'. While it lasted. There are numbers in new homes because of this.
'Affordable' housing always was a stupid but deliberate term to use. Tell me, what housing is 'affordable'? It's all f. expensive! The one big change that has happened in recent years for many young is they've been led up the European garden path into (they do it, it must be good!) into 'renting' (not much choice admittedly) but that's led them into a no-win situation, simply because the great proportion of 'rents' are extortionate - in lots of cases, paying as much if not more than some pay for a mortgage.
Those in that situation will probably never get on the ladder. But that's probably the intention.

[Rovinghawk]

dandarez said:

in lots of cases, paying as much if not more than some pay for a mortgage.

But without the deposit, not needing to fund any maintenance, etc

[Matt p]

Wait for the whole freehold/ground rent scandal to blow up. Big things brewing about all the major homebuilders flogging off the freeholds to Willy Astors off shore companies in Gurnsey. This is happening before the freehold is offered to the actual home owner.

[Rich_W]

BlackLabel said:

Well that pledge lasted long.

"But the Government has also now binned David Cameron’s flagship housing policy of building 200,000 starter homes at 20 per cent below market price, championed by the former Prime Minister just last year. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/star...

I suspect that all 200K of them would have been snapped up on BTL, probably on technicalities that were designed to stop that very thing happening.


I'd like to see Part Buy Part Rent abolished as well. Just keeps prices artificially inflated.

[Mr Whippy]

Matt p said:

Wait for the whole freehold/ground rent scandal to blow up. Big things brewing about all the major homebuilders flogging off the freeholds to Willy Astors off shore companies in Gurnsey. This is happening before the freehold is offered to the actual home owner.

The consumers are the ones who are to blame.

They should walk away, but they're so desperate to buy into the surging market, driven by their very fervour to buy anything at any cost, they clearly ignore their best judgement.

Now I'd prefer them all to suffer for their stupidity. But no doubt they'll all be saved by compensations like the whole PPI thing.


I'm sure CMD said he'd reward hard workers and savers, but that was another lie. They've all been dry shafted while the idiots without brains get protected.

[frisbee]

Randy Winkman said:

As a civil servant of 33 years experience my view is that the current government is getting rid of everything that might be a little bit difficult or upset anyone. We have the most nervous government for decades.

Which is utterly bizarre, they have absolutely no opposition. They could round us all up, glue fur on us, call us Bessie and no one could stop them.

[Mr Whippy]

frisbee said:

Randy Winkman said:

As a civil servant of 33 years experience my view is that the current government is getting rid of everything that might be a little bit difficult or upset anyone. We have the most nervous government for decades.

Which is utterly bizarre, they have absolutely no opposition. They could round us all up, glue fur on us, call us Bessie and no one could stop them.

But isn't that exactly why they don't want to upset anyone?

Why rock the boat that is as solid as a rock?

[Tryke3]

Randy Winkman said:

El stovey said:

I think aunty Theresa is getting rid of everything Cameron did and all his cronies. Except Brexit of course.

As a civil servant of 33 years experience my view is that the current government is getting rid of everything that might be a little bit difficult or upset anyone. We have the most nervous government for decades.

Competent or not ? Im very curious