Will you still vote leave if Cameron does negotiate a deal
Poll: Will you still vote leave if Cameron does negotiate a deal
Total Members Polled: 223
Discussion
brenflys777 said:
The referendum promise was made by Cameron saying if he is Prime Minister.. he's already suggested he might not run a full term. Until the referendum happens it's not a certainty in the same way that we are having a renegotiation. Without seeing a result or evidence it's just words.
It would be political suicide to reneg, it won't happen. You're right, its not a certainty but there's no good reason to think it won't or to suggest it's Cameron's intention not to have one. 
There is no chance at all that Cameron can negotiate anything of substance, so I will be voting to leave.
The opening sentence of the Treaty of Rome calls for "ever closer union". Every subsequent treaty has furthered that objective.
The "Vote Leave" campaign have launched a video yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tItgGcWVHw
The opening sentence of the Treaty of Rome calls for "ever closer union". Every subsequent treaty has furthered that objective.
The "Vote Leave" campaign have launched a video yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tItgGcWVHw
I voted "depends".
and if you think about it logically, "depends" is the only way you can vote right now unless you truly would not stay in the EU under any circumstances whatsoever (which is a perfectly respectable viewpoint) .
For the undecideds or the less militant on either side of the debate we have no way of knowing what DC will be able to offer up as a package to the voters following the renegotiation process. I don't see as how he can "consult" publicly on what the UKs position should be in the negotiation since the very act of consultation would make impossible his ability to actually negotiate with the other member states.
That being said I am certain that DC knows what the like likely majority of people do not want - things like ever closer union, ever rising contributions, unrestricted immigration with access to social benefits/NHS etc for all EU migrants etc etc etc.
If he can make some solid progress in these areas (very unlikely imho, but we shall see) and if he can demonstrate that the changes are embedded within the EU structure and not simply window dressing or represent only a pause in current proceedings in order to calm the masses (hard to do given the levels of scepticism out there) then the vote will probably sway towards staying in. Without solid progress I think the outcome will be very hard to call, although my sense of it is that this vote could be like the Scots indy vote, with people noisily declaring that they will be voting to leave during the campaign, but in the final moments being inclined to vote for the status quo rather than for the apple cart reorientation scenario.
Interesting times ahead
and if you think about it logically, "depends" is the only way you can vote right now unless you truly would not stay in the EU under any circumstances whatsoever (which is a perfectly respectable viewpoint) .
For the undecideds or the less militant on either side of the debate we have no way of knowing what DC will be able to offer up as a package to the voters following the renegotiation process. I don't see as how he can "consult" publicly on what the UKs position should be in the negotiation since the very act of consultation would make impossible his ability to actually negotiate with the other member states.
That being said I am certain that DC knows what the like likely majority of people do not want - things like ever closer union, ever rising contributions, unrestricted immigration with access to social benefits/NHS etc for all EU migrants etc etc etc.
If he can make some solid progress in these areas (very unlikely imho, but we shall see) and if he can demonstrate that the changes are embedded within the EU structure and not simply window dressing or represent only a pause in current proceedings in order to calm the masses (hard to do given the levels of scepticism out there) then the vote will probably sway towards staying in. Without solid progress I think the outcome will be very hard to call, although my sense of it is that this vote could be like the Scots indy vote, with people noisily declaring that they will be voting to leave during the campaign, but in the final moments being inclined to vote for the status quo rather than for the apple cart reorientation scenario.
Interesting times ahead
If here is a referendum on Europe my gut feeling is we stay in.Politicians are very clever of persuading people one way or the other.
I'm not keen on Cameron but he is no fool and depending on Angela Merkel he will negotiate a package which he can represent to the people.
Most of the anti Europe feeling is about immigration in my opinion.
I'm not keen on Cameron but he is no fool and depending on Angela Merkel he will negotiate a package which he can represent to the people.
Most of the anti Europe feeling is about immigration in my opinion.
I view it like the idiots who live in blocks of flats paying thousands to a management company to change a stairwell lightbulb once a year and think its good value because they have no clue how to do it themselves.That aside I cant even look at Juncker and Schulzs horrible little smug faces.
Well lets just look at how the EU has "coordinated" it's response to the humanitarian crisis that is engulfing South East European countries because of the Syrian civil war!
It has totally screwed it up on a mammoth scale. Then prior to this was the near collapse of the economies of several Mediterranean countries and the high handed manner in how Germany and it's banks dealt with it. Greece in particular was well and truly screwed. Oh then further back into how the EU tried to marginalize the Russians in the Baltic and Black Sea zones. What the hell did they expect a player like Putin to do if pushed! Then even further back the various fiascoes regarding the entry of counties into the EU that had absolutely no economic base to become member states of the EU - but they did. Then we could look at the various "gravy trains" that have been enjoyed by the political class over in Brussels - the mind boggles - I wonder if they took the lead from FIFA!!
So it's obviously been a roaring success all round has it not and well worth staying as a member state!
It has totally screwed it up on a mammoth scale. Then prior to this was the near collapse of the economies of several Mediterranean countries and the high handed manner in how Germany and it's banks dealt with it. Greece in particular was well and truly screwed. Oh then further back into how the EU tried to marginalize the Russians in the Baltic and Black Sea zones. What the hell did they expect a player like Putin to do if pushed! Then even further back the various fiascoes regarding the entry of counties into the EU that had absolutely no economic base to become member states of the EU - but they did. Then we could look at the various "gravy trains" that have been enjoyed by the political class over in Brussels - the mind boggles - I wonder if they took the lead from FIFA!!
So it's obviously been a roaring success all round has it not and well worth staying as a member state!
Funkycoldribena said:
I view it like the idiots who live in blocks of flats paying thousands to a management company to change a stairwell lightbulb once a year and think its good value because they have no clue how to do it themselves.That aside I cant even look at Juncker and Schulzs horrible little smug faces.
Both remind me of (ex)FIFA's Blatter and Platini.Asides, CMD won't negotiate a deal. He might say he has to try and sucker us in.
Anyway, he will probably hang out the Referendum until the last minute. Which for him won't mean anything, as he will be gone at the next election (probably to Europe for a nice Kinnock job!)
OUT!
One thing I've never considered asking (because the cynic in me doesn't think we'll ever leave the EU) is how would leaving the EU affect the currently changing regulations / certifications in the construction industry?
To clarify, I work in the timber door industry and there's lots of speculation about certifications for fire doors which are changing to reflect the EU regulations (different certification, even though virtually nobody sells doors into continental Europe). With this is the implementation of CE marking for timber doorsets and it's confused the whole industry.
If we left (the EU), would all of these best-laid plans just collapse so things could return to a sensible and intuitive way of operating? All this impact from reforming classification to suit the EU is just costing manufacturers lots of money. Nobody gains from this. Nobody.
To clarify, I work in the timber door industry and there's lots of speculation about certifications for fire doors which are changing to reflect the EU regulations (different certification, even though virtually nobody sells doors into continental Europe). With this is the implementation of CE marking for timber doorsets and it's confused the whole industry.
If we left (the EU), would all of these best-laid plans just collapse so things could return to a sensible and intuitive way of operating? All this impact from reforming classification to suit the EU is just costing manufacturers lots of money. Nobody gains from this. Nobody.
Liokault said:
All I want is no further movement towards integration, no federal state of Europe.
Other than that I'm happy with the status quo. Until that can be agreed, I'm an out voter.
I think that's a bit of a delusion as to what the current situation actually is. Both in terms of how much is already controlled from Brussels and the way the EU and it's institutions work, exactly as they were intended, to ensure a one way conveyor belt in the direction of ever closer union.Other than that I'm happy with the status quo. Until that can be agreed, I'm an out voter.
So long as we are party to the treaties of Rome, Maastricht, Amsterdam and Lisbon then this is the situation.
AJS- said:
Liokault said:
All I want is no further movement towards integration, no federal state of Europe.
Other than that I'm happy with the status quo. Until that can be agreed, I'm an out voter.
I think that's a bit of a delusion as to what the current situation actually is. Both in terms of how much is already controlled from Brussels and the way the EU and it's institutions work, exactly as they were intended, to ensure a one way conveyor belt in the direction of ever closer union.Other than that I'm happy with the status quo. Until that can be agreed, I'm an out voter.
So long as we are party to the treaties of Rome, Maastricht, Amsterdam and Lisbon then this is the situation.
The U.K. Will not be past of the central EUROPE under such an arrangement but second class membership. No doubt Cameron will claim this is a big success and the compliant media will support that.
Meanwhile we, as the fifth biggest economy in the world, have no seat at the world trade treaty meetings, our interests being represented by the EU.
This is not about money or immigration but about being able to control our own destiny as we see fit in the increasingly global world trade.
vonuber said:
C.A.R. said:
One thing I've never considered asking (because the cynic in me doesn't think we'll ever leave the EU) is how would leaving the EU affect the currently changing regulations / certifications in the construction industry?
It wouldn't. We'd still have to know EU regs.For example motor vehicle manufacture regulation and indeed the recently imposed plastic bag regulations fell out of the UN rather than the EU.
And of course if we leave the political union it doesn't mean we leave the single market, in which case all those regs would still apply.
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