Will you still vote leave if Cameron does negotiate a deal

[D-Angle]

I'm waiting for Cameron to get a proposed deal from the EU, then hold a referendum on whether or not we accept the deal rather than an in/out referendum.

It's a 'referendum on our membership of the EU' as promised, after all...

[SPS]

steveatesh said:

vonuber said:

C.A.R. said:

One thing I've never considered asking (because the cynic in me doesn't think we'll ever leave the EU) is how would leaving the EU affect the currently changing regulations / certifications in the construction industry?

It wouldn't. We'd still have to know EU regs.

And in any event you would have to know the specific origin of those regulations. Many regs come from the UN and the WTO now and are merely implemented by the EU, which is fast becoming an anachronism as the WTO and UN take precedence.
For example motor vehicle manufacture regulation and indeed the recently imposed plastic bag regulations fell out of the UN rather than the EU.
And of course if we leave the political union it doesn't mean we leave the single market, in which case all those regs would still apply.

It's good to know that the UN can be decisive and have an impact in some areas of International Policy. Shame that it's utterly bloody useless in areas of policy that "don't matter",or "are not of the same critical nature" but you all get my drift......................

Edited by SPS on Saturday 10th October 11:27

[Pan Pan Pan]

I am guessing that like most things in life it is all about the money (or other elements of financial value) As in the past this is what most if not all wars were actually fought over.
The UK is the second largest net contributor into EU coffers after Germany. France pays more in, up front, but then scurries around to the back door to take most of what they put in back out via the CAP.
Strange too, that recently the UK (and basket case Greece FFS!) had to pay the EU an extra 1.7 billion Euros, under the same deal, that surprise,surprise, PAID paid more money TO Germany and France!
Given that the UK is also one of the EUs biggest customers as the UK buys more from the EU than it sells into it. A Brexit `should' give the EU more worries, as to where the money for the `grand plan' will then be coming from.
I also fear that those who currently make money from the EU are happy to sell the UK down the river, so as long as `their' particular EU gravy train does not dry up.
Not unlike Tony Bliar giving away a significant part of the UK`s hard won rebate, in the hope that `he personally' would get the shoo in to the lucrative EU presidents job.
He didn't get the job, nor did he get any CAP reforms, but the UK still got the billions of pounds per year bill, and must continue pay it for eternity, or until we get out of the EU.
Originally I thought staying in `might be' the best option, but ONLY provided that much needed, and meaningful reforms into the way it is run could be achieved. The more I see of it, the more I realize this is not going to happen, so now I am pretty sure I will be voting for OUT.
If you want to see someone talking some common sense on the matter, watch Farages recent speech in the Brussels assembly, Not sure, but it seems he is getting more support from other parts of it. In any case it is worth doing so just for the smacked a*se look on both Herr Merkels, and her lappy dog Hollandse`s faces.
The worry is that with several NO campaigns on the go at the same time, this could be a ploy to split the NO`s votes, so that a more unified YES campaign actually wins overall.
The NO voters are going have to rally around a single NO campaign, whichever, or whatever or whoever is leading it, to ensure the best chance of it succeeding

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Saturday 10th October 11:37

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Saturday 10th October 11:38

[mondeoman]

steveatesh said:

AJS- said:

Liokault said:

All I want is no further movement towards integration, no federal state of Europe.

Other than that I'm happy with the status quo. Until that can be agreed, I'm an out voter.

I think that's a bit of a delusion as to what the current situation actually is. Both in terms of how much is already controlled from Brussels and the way the EU and it's institutions work, exactly as they were intended, to ensure a one way conveyor belt in the direction of ever closer union.

So long as we are party to the treaties of Rome, Maastricht, Amsterdam and Lisbon then this is the situation.

Indeed. And it looks like they are paving the way for ever closer union with another treaty being pencilled in for late 2017 or thereabouts, with the aim of thing the eurozone countries together and creating a second tier of membership, or associate membership.
The U.K. Will not be past of the central EUROPE under such an arrangement but second class membership. No doubt Cameron will claim this is a big success and the compliant media will support that.

Meanwhile we, as the fifth biggest economy in the world, have no seat at the world trade treaty meetings, our interests being represented by the EU.

This is not about money or immigration but about being able to control our own destiny as we see fit in the increasingly global world trade.

My bold - but thats a killer "Out" reason

[davepoth]

mondeoman said:

steveatesh said:

AJS- said:

Liokault said:

All I want is no further movement towards integration, no federal state of Europe.

Other than that I'm happy with the status quo. Until that can be agreed, I'm an out voter.

I think that's a bit of a delusion as to what the current situation actually is. Both in terms of how much is already controlled from Brussels and the way the EU and it's institutions work, exactly as they were intended, to ensure a one way conveyor belt in the direction of ever closer union.

So long as we are party to the treaties of Rome, Maastricht, Amsterdam and Lisbon then this is the situation.

Indeed. And it looks like they are paving the way for ever closer union with another treaty being pencilled in for late 2017 or thereabouts, with the aim of thing the eurozone countries together and creating a second tier of membership, or associate membership.
The U.K. Will not be past of the central EUROPE under such an arrangement but second class membership. No doubt Cameron will claim this is a big success and the compliant media will support that.

Meanwhile we, as the fifth biggest economy in the world, have no seat at the world trade treaty meetings, our interests being represented by the EU.

This is not about money or immigration but about being able to control our own destiny as we see fit in the increasingly global world trade.

My bold - but thats a killer "Out" reason

It's the biggest "out" reason really. The UK's trading interests should lie with the countries of the Commonwealth (due to close alignment of the legal systems, use of English, driving on the proper side of the road etc.) and as a single nation we could make free trade deals with them much faster than the EU ever could.

[Scuffers]

Pan Pan Pan said:

The NO voters are going have to rally around a single NO campaign, whichever, or whatever or whoever is leading it, to ensure the best chance of it succeeding

Have to pick you up on this..

Makes no odds really, you cannot 'split' the vote in an IN/OUT referendum

[mondeoman]

Scuffers said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

The NO voters are going have to rally around a single NO campaign, whichever, or whatever or whoever is leading it, to ensure the best chance of it succeeding

Have to pick you up on this..

Makes no odds really, you cannot 'split' the vote in an IN/OUT referendum

Never heard of divide and conquer? Very easy to pick off smaller groups and smear them in the press (and this is going to be a smear campaign like no other) than it is to go after a cohesive force.

[Pan Pan Pan]

mondeoman said:

Scuffers said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

The NO voters are going have to rally around a single NO campaign, whichever, or whatever or whoever is leading it, to ensure the best chance of it succeeding

Have to pick you up on this..

Makes no odds really, you cannot 'split' the vote in an IN/OUT referendum

Never heard of divide and conquer? Very easy to pick off smaller groups and smear them in the press (and this is going to be a smear campaign like no other) than it is to go after a cohesive force.

You have made the point I was grasping at, much better than me.
Given the way previous country / EU votes have gone, I have concerns that the UK referendum will be manipulated in a way which gives the EU what`it' wants, rather than what the majority in the UK wants.
I was just saying that we need to be on the look out, for any activity between now and 2017, on the part of the EU and even our own government which might be applied to force the vote in a particular direction. Remember with some countries they kept repeating the vote until they got the answer `they' wanted. Bit like the SNP want to do really.
Also wanted to add that campaigning costs money, and by dividing the NO campaign into several smaller groups each smaller NO campaigns voice may not be as aloud as that of a a much single larger cohesive YES campaign. This issue is too important to risk getting wrong.

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Saturday 10th October 15:40

[Scuffers]

mondeoman said:

Never heard of divide and conquer? Very easy to pick off smaller groups and smear them in the press (and this is going to be a smear campaign like no other) than it is to go after a cohesive force.

true, but that's still not splitting the vote is it?

[Pan Pan Pan]

Scuffers said:

mondeoman said:

Never heard of divide and conquer? Very easy to pick off smaller groups and smear them in the press (and this is going to be a smear campaign like no other) than it is to go after a cohesive force.

true, but that's still not splitting the vote is it?

Scuffers your point is taken, but do you really trust the EU and possibly our own government to handle this matter fairly? Given the EU`s appalling track record, I regret that I cannot.

[mondeoman]

Scuffers said:

mondeoman said:

Never heard of divide and conquer? Very easy to pick off smaller groups and smear them in the press (and this is going to be a smear campaign like no other) than it is to go after a cohesive force.

true, but that's still not splitting the vote is it?

People don't always vote for a policy, a "lot" will vote for a personality... destroy the personality, thats their vote gone as well.

[eatcustard]

Call me Dave will never sort out a good deal for the UK