A third of babies born in the UK are not white British
Discussion
Considering that we as a nation seem obsessed with biodiversity is other areas and have used snail colonies and rare types of moss to argue against major infrastructure projects, insist on countries like Brazil and Indonesia protecting their rainforests and view historical episodes like the conquest of the new world with abject horror and shame, it seems a bit strange that even mentioning a major change to the ethnic make up of our own human population is seen as pushing the boundaries of decency.
The mongrel race, melting pot fantasy is complete hogwash. We are still an overwhelmingly white, northern Europeab country with a deep rooted Christian tradition in (as far as I know?) every single town and village from the Shetlands to the Scilly Isles.
I don't see anything wrong with discussing the pace and direction of this change.
And yes as someone will surely point out my own daughter is mixed race, non-white, non-Christian or European. Dual nationality and if she ever supports a football team it may not he England. I enjoy being between 2 cultures and think it is genuinely enriching for both sides.
That's not the issue though is it?
The issue is that a large proportion of the future population of the British isles will have no real ties to the country at all other than the accident of birth. Many will be brpught up in enclaves almost entirely transplanted from other parts of the world with English as a second language and traditional English values as a curious side show. Many of these will be Muslim and a proportion of these will be actively hostile to precisely the values and traditions that have made this plurality, coexistence and liberty possible.
I'm not very comfortable with simply hoping that these millions of people turn out to be nice, and dispense with the unpleasant aspects of their own cultures which are incompatible with our own. I would like to see a far more active approach to ensuring that this happens. This involves better (not necessarily 'stricter') immigration policies and a more thorough and confident approach to promoting the values which have made Britain what it is.
So in summary the fact that a third of those born in the UK are non-white is not in and of itself a problem but it does point to a need to see exactly who is being born here, and how this will change the future of the country and what we can do now to make sure those changes are desirable for all.
The mongrel race, melting pot fantasy is complete hogwash. We are still an overwhelmingly white, northern Europeab country with a deep rooted Christian tradition in (as far as I know?) every single town and village from the Shetlands to the Scilly Isles.
I don't see anything wrong with discussing the pace and direction of this change.
And yes as someone will surely point out my own daughter is mixed race, non-white, non-Christian or European. Dual nationality and if she ever supports a football team it may not he England. I enjoy being between 2 cultures and think it is genuinely enriching for both sides.
That's not the issue though is it?
The issue is that a large proportion of the future population of the British isles will have no real ties to the country at all other than the accident of birth. Many will be brpught up in enclaves almost entirely transplanted from other parts of the world with English as a second language and traditional English values as a curious side show. Many of these will be Muslim and a proportion of these will be actively hostile to precisely the values and traditions that have made this plurality, coexistence and liberty possible.
I'm not very comfortable with simply hoping that these millions of people turn out to be nice, and dispense with the unpleasant aspects of their own cultures which are incompatible with our own. I would like to see a far more active approach to ensuring that this happens. This involves better (not necessarily 'stricter') immigration policies and a more thorough and confident approach to promoting the values which have made Britain what it is.
So in summary the fact that a third of those born in the UK are non-white is not in and of itself a problem but it does point to a need to see exactly who is being born here, and how this will change the future of the country and what we can do now to make sure those changes are desirable for all.
wsurfa said:
I was born in Cape Town and despite the fact that I'm drinking a bottle of beer in a Western Provence neoprene holder, I'm not South African. Although given the respective performances at the world cup perhaps 'Ek is gabore in Suid-Afrika' is something I should mention more regularly.
In response to the OP, I don't a monkeys as long as if they are citizens they grow up wanting to be British
Don't worry. If you speak the mother tongue like that, it's also quite clear you're not Afrikaans either. In response to the OP, I don't a monkeys as long as if they are citizens they grow up wanting to be British
I'm not white British (nor is SWMBO) since we weren't born here, nor have we become citizens, but both of our offspring are classed as White British and we're raising them as such.
I'm what you would class as white British, I have a very Anglo-Saxon surname, however I do have slightly darker skin, not black or Asian but there's is a tint there; albeit very light but people have asked my my origins, particularly in the summer, my dad had a look of Muhammad al fayed about him, one of my dad's sisters has the same colourings; his other sister is as white British looking as you can get, my eldest is a white British looking as you can get, my youngest has a slight "foreign" look about her.
There is something in my family way back, we aren't sure where or when and have never looked it up but it is there; basically we are all different, we were all a mix with odd bits thrown in, I wonder how many of these idiots that go on marches, "wanting their country back", or want to kick out the "muslims" are actually 100% original white British; none probably.
There is something in my family way back, we aren't sure where or when and have never looked it up but it is there; basically we are all different, we were all a mix with odd bits thrown in, I wonder how many of these idiots that go on marches, "wanting their country back", or want to kick out the "muslims" are actually 100% original white British; none probably.
spot on .
AJS- said:
Considering that we as a nation seem obsessed with biodiversity is other areas and have used snail colonies and rare types of moss to argue against major infrastructure projects, insist on countries like Brazil and Indonesia protecting their rainforests and view historical episodes like the conquest of the new world with abject horror and shame, it seems a bit strange that even mentioning a major change to the ethnic make up of our own human population is seen as pushing the boundaries of decency.
The mongrel race, melting pot fantasy is complete hogwash. We are still an overwhelmingly white, northern Europeab country with a deep rooted Christian tradition in (as far as I know?) every single town and village from the Shetlands to the Scilly Isles.
I don't see anything wrong with discussing the pace and direction of this change.
And yes as someone will surely point out my own daughter is mixed race, non-white, non-Christian or European. Dual nationality and if she ever supports a football team it may not he England. I enjoy being between 2 cultures and think it is genuinely enriching for both sides.
That's not the issue though is it?
The issue is that a large proportion of the future population of the British isles will have no real ties to the country at all other than the accident of birth. Many will be brpught up in enclaves almost entirely transplanted from other parts of the world with English as a second language and traditional English values as a curious side show. Many of these will be Muslim and a proportion of these will be actively hostile to precisely the values and traditions that have made this plurality, coexistence and liberty possible.
I'm not very comfortable with simply hoping that these millions of people turn out to be nice, and dispense with the unpleasant aspects of their own cultures which are incompatible with our own. I would like to see a far more active approach to ensuring that this happens. This involves better (not necessarily 'stricter') immigration policies and a more thorough and confident approach to promoting the values which have made Britain what it is.
So in summary the fact that a third of those born in the UK are non-white is not in and of itself a problem but it does point to a need to see exactly who is being born here, and how this will change the future of the country and what we can do now to make sure those changes are desirable for all.
The mongrel race, melting pot fantasy is complete hogwash. We are still an overwhelmingly white, northern Europeab country with a deep rooted Christian tradition in (as far as I know?) every single town and village from the Shetlands to the Scilly Isles.
I don't see anything wrong with discussing the pace and direction of this change.
And yes as someone will surely point out my own daughter is mixed race, non-white, non-Christian or European. Dual nationality and if she ever supports a football team it may not he England. I enjoy being between 2 cultures and think it is genuinely enriching for both sides.
That's not the issue though is it?
The issue is that a large proportion of the future population of the British isles will have no real ties to the country at all other than the accident of birth. Many will be brpught up in enclaves almost entirely transplanted from other parts of the world with English as a second language and traditional English values as a curious side show. Many of these will be Muslim and a proportion of these will be actively hostile to precisely the values and traditions that have made this plurality, coexistence and liberty possible.
I'm not very comfortable with simply hoping that these millions of people turn out to be nice, and dispense with the unpleasant aspects of their own cultures which are incompatible with our own. I would like to see a far more active approach to ensuring that this happens. This involves better (not necessarily 'stricter') immigration policies and a more thorough and confident approach to promoting the values which have made Britain what it is.
So in summary the fact that a third of those born in the UK are non-white is not in and of itself a problem but it does point to a need to see exactly who is being born here, and how this will change the future of the country and what we can do now to make sure those changes are desirable for all.
wsurfa said:
I was born in Cape Town and despite the fact that I'm drinking a bottle of beer in a Western Provence neoprene holder, I'm not South African. Although given the respective performances at the world cup perhaps 'Ek is gabore in Suid-Afrika' is something I should mention more regularly.
In response to the OP, I don't a monkeys as long as if they are citizens they grow up wanting to be British
Haha!!In response to the OP, I don't a monkeys as long as if they are citizens they grow up wanting to be British
At this stage of my life, I have spent most of my life in South Africa.
. I went to the SA/USA rugby game on Wednesday....and I'm not like them. A great atmosphere, and with the way they're playing, I'll put a heavy accent on next time at at a pub and the rugby's on..
HTP99 said:
I'm what you would class as white British, I have a very Anglo-Saxon surname, however I do have slightly darker skin, not black or Asian but there's is a tint there; albeit very light but people have asked my my origins, particularly in the summer, my dad had a look of Muhammad al fayed about him, one of my dad's sisters has the same colourings; his other sister is as white British looking as you can get, my eldest is a white British looking as you can get, my youngest has a slight "foreign" look about her.
There is something in my family way back, we aren't sure where or when and have never looked it up but it is there; basically we are all different, we were all a mix with odd bits thrown in, I wonder how many of these idiots that go on marches, "wanting their country back", or want to kick out the "muslims" are actually 100% original white British; none probably.
There was an amusing documentary on years ago, it dealt with genealogy. It chatted to racists and people in the BNP/similar stuff, and it was rather amusing to see the scientist tell a racist they are not 100% 'white, that there is no such thing and that she had a good proportion of (whatever colour/nationality it was) in her.There is something in my family way back, we aren't sure where or when and have never looked it up but it is there; basically we are all different, we were all a mix with odd bits thrown in, I wonder how many of these idiots that go on marches, "wanting their country back", or want to kick out the "muslims" are actually 100% original white British; none probably.
Do people who are 100 % "white British" all share exactly the same "cultural values"?
In my experience they don't. You'll get the same breadth of values in any culture. My sneaky suspicion is people are using "culture" when they don't have the balls to say "colour"
To put it another way, I'm not massively bothered what colour people are, as long as they behave in a decent civilised manner. Being 100% white Christian doesn't make you automatically better than if you were 100% black Rastafarian.
In my experience they don't. You'll get the same breadth of values in any culture. My sneaky suspicion is people are using "culture" when they don't have the balls to say "colour"
To put it another way, I'm not massively bothered what colour people are, as long as they behave in a decent civilised manner. Being 100% white Christian doesn't make you automatically better than if you were 100% black Rastafarian.
Countdown said:
Do people who are 100 % "white British" all share exactly the same "cultural values"?
In my experience they don't. You'll get the same breadth of values in any culture. My sneaky suspicion is people are using "culture" when they don't have the balls to say "colour"
To put it another way, I'm not massively bothered what colour people are, as long as they behave in a decent civilised manner. Being 100% white Christian doesn't make you automatically better than if you were 100% black Rastafarian.
True. I see black and white kids throwing rubbish on the floor.In my experience they don't. You'll get the same breadth of values in any culture. My sneaky suspicion is people are using "culture" when they don't have the balls to say "colour"
To put it another way, I'm not massively bothered what colour people are, as long as they behave in a decent civilised manner. Being 100% white Christian doesn't make you automatically better than if you were 100% black Rastafarian.
brenflys777 said:
I couldn't give two sh@ts what colour the kids being born in the UK are and I can't think of a good reason why it should generate anything other than social studies interest, but I do care that they are brought up to be proud and generate pride in being British.
But they don't.Jimboka said:
I guess the thread was designed to cause outrage.
It's rather good that it failed miserably.
This. And I'm quite pleased that I live in a time where a vast majority of us are more tolerant of others than maybe our parents were/are. The bigots are a dying breed and in a generation or two will be virtually nonexistent It's rather good that it failed miserably.
Boosted LS1 said:
AJS- said:
That's not the issue though is it? Lots of stuff etc.
You articulated exactly my thoughts. Spot on. The 'enclaves almost entirely transplanted from other parts of the world' are a reality and they are getting bigger and more isolated from traditional British culture.
Who is going to take the 'active approach', how and when?
When do you become non-British? Like people call themselves Irish and you actually realise when they say Irish they mean their ancestors left pre-1922...so not really Irish?
When you start to try to define these things exclusively by ancestry or some cultural normality it gets a bit silly. That's not to sat that being British isn't still something special to each of us that are or that we shouldn't enjoy our commonalities but it's probably something that can't easily or succinctly be summarised.
When you start to try to define these things exclusively by ancestry or some cultural normality it gets a bit silly. That's not to sat that being British isn't still something special to each of us that are or that we shouldn't enjoy our commonalities but it's probably something that can't easily or succinctly be summarised.
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