Junior Doctor's contracts petition
Discussion
crankedup said:
Maybe better if you make up your own mind on that question. I will say that I support the JD current campaign and although ultimately wish to see a equalised seven day NHS I believe the Government have started their campaiign at the JD level simply because it suits their Political planing.
On a wider front, Currently I believe the pendulum has swung to far in favour of
the employers although Government has introduced legislation introducing a living wage as an appeasement to workers..
What is a "living wage"?On a wider front, Currently I believe the pendulum has swung to far in favour of
the employers although Government has introduced legislation introducing a living wage as an appeasement to workers..
The original Nick the Greek said:
The BMA is a union. By any definition of a union.
I realise the HO hasn't been sworn for years. It kinda makes my point...
Not sure who your insurer is, I go private for everything from corrective laser for vision, teeth, to my psychiatrist.
The 40% (allegedly) of JDs that worked was not part of my figure. It is symply that not all JDs want to be part of a militant union, indeed some are now leaving the BMA. And secondly, only those JDs that will be effected by the new contract were eligible to vote. This precludes 6% of BMA members from voting.
Out of 53000 junior Doctors almost 40000 are members. Of those that were balloted, 37700, 98% voted for the strike. Which ever way you look at it the vast majority did agree with the strike and that figure even Hunt has not disputed.I realise the HO hasn't been sworn for years. It kinda makes my point...
Not sure who your insurer is, I go private for everything from corrective laser for vision, teeth, to my psychiatrist.
The 40% (allegedly) of JDs that worked was not part of my figure. It is symply that not all JDs want to be part of a militant union, indeed some are now leaving the BMA. And secondly, only those JDs that will be effected by the new contract were eligible to vote. This precludes 6% of BMA members from voting.
I would love to know who your insurer is that covers everything yours does? Please give details as I along with many others would switch. I have never seen a policy that covers everything and knowing people who work in the industry they try to avoid payment where possible, even when they say they do.
There is a place for both in the UK and by you using yours you save the NHS time and money, that can be spent on those less able to fund their own care fully.
The original Nick the Greek said:
mph1977 said:
except the private insurers only offer cover for the low cost and 'most profitable' conditions etc ...
Incorrect.numtumfutunch said:
mph1977 said:
the bigger issue with weekends is the lack of progression for those who have been admitted , in the week it is likely that you will be reviewed by the appropriate subspeciality within 24 hours - this simply does not happen at the weekend as well as the delays to investigations, procedurs and the inability to discharge many patients due to a lack of provision of services and a lack of medical staff to complete documnentation which is considered / required to be 'a Doctor's job' ...
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013...
To save you reading it mandates a consultant presence in the acute specialities from 8am -8pm every day including Saturday and Sunday and immediate access to investigations as necessary
numtumfutunch said:
numtumfutunch said:
mph1977 said:
the bigger issue with weekends is the lack of progression for those who have been admitted , in the week it is likely that you will be reviewed by the appropriate subspeciality within 24 hours - this simply does not happen at the weekend as well as the delays to investigations, procedurs and the inability to discharge many patients due to a lack of provision of services and a lack of medical staff to complete documnentation which is considered / required to be 'a Doctor's job' ...
https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013...
To save you reading it mandates a consultant presence in the acute specialities from 8am -8pm every day including Saturday and Sunday and immediate access to investigations as necessary
all that means is that there needsto a consultant from the Medical on call rota present and a consultant from the surgical on call rota ( possibly an Orthopod as well ) , as well the A+E, Anaesthetic and O+G consultants who were likely to be on site at close call anyway ...
rather different to a 7 day a week service and support services providing a consistent 7 day service
The original Nick the Greek said:
turbobloke said:
A & E ?
Pay as you go.Next.
Its interesting that you seem to be advocating the USA system, that is fine whilst you are on the up elevator.
But when you walk in to a Doctors reception in a Lymes disease area, with an 8 year old boy with a tick, the first thing the receptionist says, after good morning, is may I have your insurance details and your credit card.
Free at the point of need is the NHS mantra and envied the whole world over.
Oh and for the record in the USA a Junior Doctor earns 20 times what they do herer.
Its interesting that even Turbo disagrees with you.
Edited by Dixy on Tuesday 16th February 07:46
Edited by Dixy on Tuesday 16th February 07:49
Dixy said:
The original Nick the Greek said:
turbobloke said:
A & E ?
Pay as you go.Next.
But when you walk in to a Doctors reception in a Lymes disease area, with an 8 year old boy with a tick, the first thing the receptionist says, after good morning, is may I have your insurance details and your credit card.
Free at the point of need is the NHS mantra and envied the whole world over.
Oh and for the record in the USA a Junior Doctor earns 20 times what they do hear.
Article on USA doctor income said:
The New York Times' number generator let readers type in a doctor's name and get a dollar amount. In a lot of cases, physicians came off looking seriously flush with cash.
Those numbers and the accompanying "go to medical school, you can make more than Lebron" implications were misleading in that they represent revenue, not profit.
Those numbers and the accompanying "go to medical school, you can make more than Lebron" implications were misleading in that they represent revenue, not profit.
Dixy said:
Nick
Its interesting that you seem to be advocating the USA system, that is fine whilst you are on the up elevator.
But when you walk in to a Doctors reception in a Lymes disease area, with an 8 year old boy with a tick, the first thing the receptionist says, after good morning, is may I have your insurance details and your credit card.
Free at the point of need is the NHS mantra and envied the whole world over.
Oh and for the record in the USA a Junior Doctor earns 20 times what they do herer.
Its interesting that even Turbo disagrees with you.
Personally I'm quite relaxed about the American system having been born there and lived my formative years with uncle Sam. However, its a question of degree. In the UK we need (IMO) far more balanced system. The taxpayer cannot afford the NHS in its current form, due to the previously noted demographic changes. The vast majority of politicians agree with this, except the communists.Its interesting that you seem to be advocating the USA system, that is fine whilst you are on the up elevator.
But when you walk in to a Doctors reception in a Lymes disease area, with an 8 year old boy with a tick, the first thing the receptionist says, after good morning, is may I have your insurance details and your credit card.
Free at the point of need is the NHS mantra and envied the whole world over.
Oh and for the record in the USA a Junior Doctor earns 20 times what they do herer.
Its interesting that even Turbo disagrees with you.
Edited by Dixy on Tuesday 16th February 07:46
Edited by Dixy on Tuesday 16th February 07:49
I would advocate that those that can afford to pay private do so, with the appropriate tax breaks. Those that cannot, use a more state funded arrangement, but with changes. For example, I would introduce a small charge to see you GP. This would reduce the number if habitual appointment wasters and missed appointments.
Much can be done to reshape the old and tired NHS. I doubt whether anyone has the political balls to do so.
turbobloke said:
That 'even' 
I'm lovin' it.
I don't disagree with everything Nick said, the only point I raised was A & E because at the time it wasn't clear what approach was being advocated there. It has since been clarified.
TBH turbo I don't think there are many that would advocate that the NHS doesn't need route and branch change. I'm lovin' it.I don't disagree with everything Nick said, the only point I raised was A & E because at the time it wasn't clear what approach was being advocated there. It has since been clarified.
The original Nick the Greek said:
turbobloke said:
That 'even' I'm lovin' it.
I don't disagree with everything Nick said, the only point I raised was A & E because at the time it wasn't clear what approach was being advocated there. It has since been clarified.
TBH turbo I don't think there are many that would advocate that the NHS doesn't need route and branch change. I'm lovin' it.I don't disagree with everything Nick said, the only point I raised was A & E because at the time it wasn't clear what approach was being advocated there. It has since been clarified.
The original Nick the Greek said:
crankedup said:
Maybe better if you make up your own mind on that question. I will say that I support the JD current campaign and although ultimately wish to see a equalised seven day NHS I believe the Government have started their campaiign at the JD level simply because it suits their Political planing.
On a wider front, Currently I believe the pendulum has swung to far in favour of
the employers although Government has introduced legislation introducing a living wage as an appeasement to workers..
What is a "living wage"?On a wider front, Currently I believe the pendulum has swung to far in favour of
the employers although Government has introduced legislation introducing a living wage as an appeasement to workers..
My opinion is that far to many companies have for to long been subsidised by tax payers. Low pay has been topped up in the form of 'in work benefits' in effect taking the low pay heat off companies knowing that employees receive this top-up. I dislike this when companies post fat profits, i
The original Nick the Greek said:
turbobloke said:
That 'even' I'm lovin' it.
I don't disagree with everything Nick said, the only point I raised was A & E because at the time it wasn't clear what approach was being advocated there. It has since been clarified.
TBH turbo I don't think there are many that would advocate that the NHS doesn't need route and branch change. I'm lovin' it.I don't disagree with everything Nick said, the only point I raised was A & E because at the time it wasn't clear what approach was being advocated there. It has since been clarified.
Aneurin Bevin accepted to make the NHS work he had to stuff their mouths with gold, the JDs are not demanding that.
Dixy said:
The original Nick the Greek said:
turbobloke said:
That 'even' I'm lovin' it.
I don't disagree with everything Nick said, the only point I raised was A & E because at the time it wasn't clear what approach was being advocated there. It has since been clarified.
TBH turbo I don't think there are many that would advocate that the NHS doesn't need route and branch change. I'm lovin' it.I don't disagree with everything Nick said, the only point I raised was A & E because at the time it wasn't clear what approach was being advocated there. It has since been clarified.
Aneurin Bevin accepted to make the NHS work he had to stuff their mouths with gold, the JDs are not demanding that.
Pointing out that evidence exists to support other viewpoints and stating those alternative viewpoints while taking on the frequently vapid replies for what they are is not being abusive.
Dixy said:
Nick
Its interesting that you seem to be advocating the USA system, that is fine whilst you are on the up elevator.
But when you walk in to a Doctors reception in a Lymes disease area, with an 8 year old boy with a tick, the first thing the receptionist says, after good morning, is may I have your insurance details and your credit card.
Free at the point of need is the NHS mantra and envied the whole world over.
Oh and for the record in the USA a Junior Doctor earns 20 times what they do herer.
Its interesting that even Turbo disagrees with you.
Dixy,Its interesting that you seem to be advocating the USA system, that is fine whilst you are on the up elevator.
But when you walk in to a Doctors reception in a Lymes disease area, with an 8 year old boy with a tick, the first thing the receptionist says, after good morning, is may I have your insurance details and your credit card.
Free at the point of need is the NHS mantra and envied the whole world over.
Oh and for the record in the USA a Junior Doctor earns 20 times what they do herer.
Its interesting that even Turbo disagrees with you.
You are trying to reason with someone who posts;
The original Nick the Greek said:
And you're a wrong fking moron.
You lost. Your ignorance offends me. Do you work in education?
When shown that he was so laughably wrong about named vs generic drugs.You lost. Your ignorance offends me. Do you work in education?
Advocating for a system that spends more than 2x as much as NHS per capita, while delivering significantly worse results, in fact the bottom of the league tables for developed nations, and is the cause for most bankruptcies in USA.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148
But this is PH, as long as you put 'comrade', 'communist' in your post, it makes you right by default.
The original Nick the Greek said:
TBH turbo I don't think there are many that would advocate that the NHS doesn't need route and branch change.
The fundamental fact however is that the ownership and management of providers is not the same issue as providing the current free at point of use and subsidisised services , much as some on the left which to conflate them ( often to serve the purposes of Unison in particular - as the quasi-monolithic NHS gives them the opportunity to hold the country to ransom )it;s amazing how many lefties for get that the back bone of the NHS since 1948 has been 'private' providers - GPs, General Dental Practitioners, Community pharmacy, Opticians etc.
Hosenbugler said:
The original Nick the Greek said:
The junior doctors are a bunch of self serving, greedy individuals, who are a disgrace to their profession.
Putting money before the care of their patients. Whatever happened to the Hippocratic oath?
Fortunately, the striking junior doctors are in a minority. Let's hope this minority of militant, unionised self centred idiots get their cummupance.
About how I see it. Watching those idiots hopping up and down with placards really does make you wonder who is just taking up being doctors in recent times. I really did expect better of a profession I thought better of. Putting money before the care of their patients. Whatever happened to the Hippocratic oath?
Fortunately, the striking junior doctors are in a minority. Let's hope this minority of militant, unionised self centred idiots get their cummupance.
jjlynn27 said:
When shown that he was so laughably wrong about named vs generic drugs.
Advocating for a system that spends more than 2x as much as NHS per capita, while delivering significantly worse results, in fact the bottom of the league tables for developed nations, and is the cause for most bankruptcies in USA.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148
But this is PH, as long as you put 'comrade', 'communist' in your post, it makes you right by default.
I'd heard you died.Advocating for a system that spends more than 2x as much as NHS per capita, while delivering significantly worse results, in fact the bottom of the league tables for developed nations, and is the cause for most bankruptcies in USA.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148
But this is PH, as long as you put 'comrade', 'communist' in your post, it makes you right by default.
Never mind.
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