Junior Doctor's contracts petition
Discussion
sidicks said:
And if they 'propose' terms and you don't like them, then what?
You negotiate, Nurse, this patient needs spoon feeding.Edited by sidicks on Thursday 26th November 08:41
You could even bring pensions in to the mix then, but of course if all NHS staff stopped paying in to the states ponsi scheme then they would be totally f
ked.
sidicks said:
And he continues to demonstrate his ignorance...
There's a big difference between bring able to read a pension document and understanding what it means.
Just as me watching 'Casualty' on a Saturday night doesn't qualify me as a doctor.
HTH
This does help immensely, a Doctor could make a reasonable fist of understanding a pension document, and even if they totally screwed it up, someone could sort it out in a month or two. Whereas when your son arrives at A&E at 2 am on a Sunday morning with minutes to live the best you could hope to do is sob whilst he dies.There's a big difference between bring able to read a pension document and understanding what it means.
Just as me watching 'Casualty' on a Saturday night doesn't qualify me as a doctor.
HTH
HTH
dubloon said:
If they don't want to be doctors they could always look for another job. Plenty of people would be happy to replace them.
They do want to be doctors, they will just look for another country. As for replacing them, they have to start before they make there gcse choices, so thats at least 9 years to graduating. Will make current waiting times seem a tad irrelevant.And for the record UCAS applications for med schools are down.
t400ble said:
My take on this.
We live in a 7 day a week world. the job requires it.
Don't like it? Find something else to do in life.
How many times do people need to be told, doctors expect and are happy to work any of 24 hours a day 365 days of a year, will you please explain why it is safe for a doctor to work more hours in one week than a truck driver is allowed to work in a fortnight.We live in a 7 day a week world. the job requires it.
Don't like it? Find something else to do in life.
Turbo, it may seem complicated to you that this is about many things. Pay is part of it, Hunt has said he will increase basic by 11% and cut overall by 30%, keeping it simple for you that is about a 20 % pay cut.
That is one of the twenty two points.
Hunt wants to change the control procedures that safeguard excessive hours being worked.
Those are 2 of 22, Hunt realised at the 11th hour that he had turned up to a gun fight with a knife and to protect his puffed up ego he is now posturing.
As far as your ramblings about it being political, their dispute is with their employer, the secretary of state for health, he happens to be a tory, if he was labour, ukip, communist or Nazi, they would oppose it.
That is one of the twenty two points.
Hunt wants to change the control procedures that safeguard excessive hours being worked.
Those are 2 of 22, Hunt realised at the 11th hour that he had turned up to a gun fight with a knife and to protect his puffed up ego he is now posturing.
As far as your ramblings about it being political, their dispute is with their employer, the secretary of state for health, he happens to be a tory, if he was labour, ukip, communist or Nazi, they would oppose it.
Turbo, My Daughter is a junior doctor, She played polo for her med school and I got to meet a lot of her fellow students. Her F1 year she was at our local hospital and we hosted parties for her and lots of the Junior doctors, a few had what you would call socialist leanings but were far too busy being doctors to give it any real thought. These are the opinions I base my assertions on.
My Daughter is somewhere to the right of Mussolini.
You seem to have got all of your facts from sky TV and Hunt, perhaps you would like to name some of the Junior doctors you have discussed this with.
My Daughter is somewhere to the right of Mussolini.
You seem to have got all of your facts from sky TV and Hunt, perhaps you would like to name some of the Junior doctors you have discussed this with.
Barry the bit you don't know to question is the "on average", that is averaged over a year, so they rota people to work 7 consecutive 13 hour shifts and then give them 5 days off, shear incompetence.
Turbo you are Violet Elizabeth Bott and your facts are facts and if we don't like them you will scream and scream until you make yourself sick. But you have now proved that you have no base to your "facts" just prejudice.
Turbo you are Violet Elizabeth Bott and your facts are facts and if we don't like them you will scream and scream until you make yourself sick. But you have now proved that you have no base to your "facts" just prejudice.
barryrs said:
I simply cant believe this process is not being followed as if not there would be uproar from JD's
The bit you need to comprehend is that most Doctors dedicate their entire being to becoming a doctor from before they make their gcse choices, so when a bullying trust manager threatens to question their fitness to practice, the JD just rolls over and accepts the st. If you find this difficult to believe, note that the BMA had to get councils opinion to prove to JDs before they voted for a strike that they would not be struck off if a patient claimed to have suffered.I am the archetypal PH co director and would not dare to treat my staff like the NHS does with impunity, Hunt has just added one straw too many.
This has to be seen to be believed which is why those of us that have a personal interest if not vested are so vociferousness.
One of the hardest factors to comprehend until you see it close up is this topic of hours worked and the risks associated.
if Junior doctors were fitted with a tachograph so they had to take their brakes and stick to the max hours worked rules, and the trusts were fined for breaches, then the NHS would grind to a halt tomorrow.
Like most aspirant young professionals they turn up early, they work through their brakes and they leave late, and are happy to do so. 2 big differences most professionals are contracted and scheduled 9 to 5 Monday to Friday not 12 consecutive days or night shifts. If and when the young lawyer/accountant/architect..... screws up because they are over tired, it can be put right with an invoice. In the NHS it is put right with a law suit that swallows £20bn a year.
Can anyone explain how the government thinks saying we will negotiate but we will impose is not incompatible or inflammatory.
if Junior doctors were fitted with a tachograph so they had to take their brakes and stick to the max hours worked rules, and the trusts were fined for breaches, then the NHS would grind to a halt tomorrow.
Like most aspirant young professionals they turn up early, they work through their brakes and they leave late, and are happy to do so. 2 big differences most professionals are contracted and scheduled 9 to 5 Monday to Friday not 12 consecutive days or night shifts. If and when the young lawyer/accountant/architect..... screws up because they are over tired, it can be put right with an invoice. In the NHS it is put right with a law suit that swallows £20bn a year.
Can anyone explain how the government thinks saying we will negotiate but we will impose is not incompatible or inflammatory.
bodhi, great idea, just one question, where are you going to find these extra GPs, from leaving school it takes at least 12 years and we don't have enough GPs as it is. They have been shat upon by HMG so many times that there are far more retiring than entering.
Doctors are a finite and valuable resource that HMG totally fail to understand.
Doctors are a finite and valuable resource that HMG totally fail to understand.
Mr GrimNasty said:
Another dishonest representation from the list of campaign propaganda.
Being on call 24hrs, does not actual involve being dead on your feet for 24hrs, as you full well know.
Even a Dr in a coma would not miss such a simple thing anyway.
You certainly live up to your name, an F2 on call rarely gets time to pee never mind rest. There is never no doctor, there are frequently not enough to see everyone.Being on call 24hrs, does not actual involve being dead on your feet for 24hrs, as you full well know.
Even a Dr in a coma would not miss such a simple thing anyway.
A doctor starting university today and paying for all their exams and training to get to be a consultant will have £200k of their money invested, seems reasonable they earn accordingly. But this thread is about junior doctors.
And yet again it has nothing to do with politics.
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