Junior Doctor's contracts petition

[speedyman]

sidicks said:

Regulation has a cost - we just need to ensure that we have the right regulation in the right areas - too many people call for regulation which often has no benefit but adds cost.

No benefit to who? Can you give examples of this ?

[BlackLabel]

Some good news.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/04/jun...

"Junior doctors have agreed to temporarily hold off calling further strikes to enable fresh talks to take place with the government, giving hope that the long-running pay dispute could finally be heading towards resolution."

[sidicks]

speedyman said:

No benefit to who? Can you give examples of this ?

Much of the new regulation for banks (post crisis) has significant cost implications which are passed on to customers but which won't make banks 'safer'.

[Sway]

sidicks said:

speedyman said:

No benefit to who? Can you give examples of this ?

Much of the new regulation for banks (post crisis) has significant cost implications which are passed on to customers but which won't make banks 'safer'.

Not UK originated, but Sarbanes Oxley is an appalling waste of cash.

[spaximus]

BlackLabel said:

Some good news.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/04/jun...

"Junior doctors have agreed to temporarily hold off calling further strikes to enable fresh talks to take place with the government, giving hope that the long-running pay dispute could finally be heading towards resolution."

Only if Hunt allows genuine talks. He has said all along that the contract will be imposed regardless so I don't see how he will agree to suspend the imposition to allow talks at all.
The JD's are being pragmatic, remove the threat of strikes and it will show who really wants to end this. As Hunt himself said he was willing to discuss the legitimate concerns surrounding the new contract but not willing to discuss the unsocial hours issue which will lead to a pay cut and the unsafe rotas.
He has acknowledged that there are legitimate issues with the contract so, it was better for Dr's, better for patients, better for the tax payer, but now the DOH have worked out exactly what the JD's were saying that you cannot spread the same staff over longer hours and provide the same safe cover, they are panicking as the concerns are real and legitimate.

[turbobloke]

spaximus said:

BlackLabel said:

Some good news.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/04/jun...

"Junior doctors have agreed to temporarily hold off calling further strikes to enable fresh talks to take place with the government, giving hope that the long-running pay dispute could finally be heading towards resolution."

The JD's are being pragmatic, remove the threat of strikes and it will show who really wants to end this.

Possibly, but it's also possible that they realise public support while strong so far is starting to erode with the impact of lack of emergency cover and publicity being given to other consequences e.g. impact on cancer patients, and the BMA's days taking on the government are numbered. It's one or the other. Whichever it is, here's hoping for a permanent resolution in the near future.

[ThunderGuts]

Sway said:

sidicks said:

speedyman said:

No benefit to who? Can you give examples of this ?

Much of the new regulation for banks (post crisis) has significant cost implications which are passed on to customers but which won't make banks 'safer'.

Not UK originated, but Sarbanes Oxley is an appalling waste of cash.

There's much more than just SOx, a lot brought about by the UK regulators.

Now we're seeing disparity in competition ability between established and starter banks too, due to the heavy regulation.

Anyway... Back to medics!

[Dixy]

turbobloke said:

spaximus said:

BlackLabel said:

Some good news.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/04/jun...

"Junior doctors have agreed to temporarily hold off calling further strikes to enable fresh talks to take place with the government, giving hope that the long-running pay dispute could finally be heading towards resolution."

The JD's are being pragmatic, remove the threat of strikes and it will show who really wants to end this.

Possibly, but it's also possible that they realise public support while strong so far is starting to erode with the impact of lack of emergency cover and publicity being given to other consequences e.g. impact on cancer patients, and the BMA's days taking on the government are numbered. It's one or the other. Whichever it is, here's hoping for a permanent resolution in the near future.

The SoS has said no this morning, so much for jaw jaw being better than war war.
The Junior Doctors have 3 main options, give in, all out strike, mass resignation. Hell of a gamble Hunt with our health.

[speedyman]

sidicks said:

speedyman said:

No benefit to who? Can you give examples of this ?

Much of the new regulation for banks (post crisis) has significant cost implications which are passed on to customers but which won't make banks 'safer'.

And an example of this is, please ?????

[sidicks]

speedyman said:

And an example of this is, please ?????

See above...

[crankedup]

speedyman said:

sidicks said:

speedyman said:

No benefit to who? Can you give examples of this ?

Much of the new regulation for banks (post crisis) has significant cost implications which are passed on to customers but which won't make banks 'safer'.

And an example of this is, please ?????

It's not the banks that need tighter regulation, it's the employee's, or at least those that make the difference. Additionally it is the banking culture that WAS rotten to the core, on the face of it the business ethics are very slowing improving but it is going to take many years or decades yet, if ever.

[sidicks]

crankedup said:

It's not the banks that need tighter regulation, it's the employee's, or at least those that make the difference.

Additionally it is the banking culture that WAS rotten to the core, on the face of it the business ethics are very slowing improving but it is going to take many years or decades yet, if ever.

No it wasn't.

[ThunderGuts]

sidicks said:

crankedup said:

It's not the banks that need tighter regulation, it's the employee's, or at least those that make the difference.

Additionally it is the banking culture that WAS rotten to the core, on the face of it the business ethics are very slowing improving but it is going to take many years or decades yet, if ever.

No it wasn't.

Jenny, my secretary was burning grandmas night and day to keep the bank turning in 2007/8 The evil banker!

As of course, the whole industry was evil...

Don't get me started on the receptionists!

[Dixy]

And all that has what to do with the Junior Doctors contracts.

Start your own thread if you want to discuss something else.

[Bill]

Dixy said:

The SoS has said no this morning, so much for jaw jaw being better than war war.
The Junior Doctors have 3 main options, give in, all out strike, mass resignation. Hell of a gamble Hunt with our health.

Yep. He seems to think he has them over a barrel. I suspect it'll be a combination of 1&3 and the NHS crisis will deepen.

[ThunderGuts]

Dixy said:

And all that has what to do with the Junior Doctors contracts.

Start your own thread if you want to discuss something else.

Oh do chillax.

Read back re regulation of private vs public. Then of course crankedup had to go off topic, which needed to be corrected.

[ThunderGuts]

Bill said:

Dixy said:

The SoS has said no this morning, so much for jaw jaw being better than war war.
The Junior Doctors have 3 main options, give in, all out strike, mass resignation. Hell of a gamble Hunt with our health.

Yep. He seems to think he has them over a barrel. I suspect it'll be a combination of 1&3 and the NHS crisis will deepen.

There will be done resignations, is be surprised if they were 'mass' though. That's where we'll see the true split in the JDs between willing to strike vs willing to commit to big personal sacrifice.

[loafer123]

Q - What is the difference between negotiating now before the contracts are imposed and "suspending imposition for 5 days".

A - Nothing but the JD's egos.

[sidicks]

crankedup said:

Sidicks has spoken, the complete and utter carnage 2007--8 which took years of diligent abuse, fraud and plain crap management within parts of the finance industry was not a result of the industry being rotten to the core. This is the alternate world inhabited by bankers, some still deny and suggest 'not my fault'.

Please stop spoiling the thread with your off-topic and ill-informed rhetoric.

If you do have to reply, perhaps you'd like to respond to the following questions:
What has 'crap management' got to do with being 'rotten to the core'?
What proportion of employees were involved in fraud / abuse?
What proportion of employees, employed prior to 2008 were also in the sector 8 years later?

[0000]

crankedup said:

Sidicks has spoken, the complete and utter carnage 2007--8 which took years of diligent abuse, fraud and plain crap management within parts of the finance industry was not a result of the industry being rotten to the core. This is the alternate world inhabited by bankers, some still deny and suggest 'not my fault'.

How is Gordon Brown these days? Is he still telling everyone that too?