Junior Doctor's contracts petition
Discussion
sidicks said:
I'm correcting inaccuracies and misrepresentations from others - if they don't make them, I won't need to respond.
For the avoidance of doubt:
- I don't expect doctors to work longer hours for the same pay (on average), however there are likely be some specific circumstances where someone was significantly benefitting from the current arrangements but may be disadvantaged under the new ones. Unfortunately that's life, and inevitable as the NHS has to evolve.
If the claims made by the government that most people won't lose out under the proposal is false then this is clearly bad form from the government.
Having said that, the NHS clearly needs major reform as we can't keep spending more money on it above the rate of GDP growth, year after year, as this has major implications for other public services.
We need to ensure that the money that is allocated to public services is appropriately spent - that means on providing front line services and paying employee salaries, NOT subsidising massive pensions for staff.
I think that's the most sensible and balanced post you've put on here.For the avoidance of doubt:
- I don't expect doctors to work longer hours for the same pay (on average), however there are likely be some specific circumstances where someone was significantly benefitting from the current arrangements but may be disadvantaged under the new ones. Unfortunately that's life, and inevitable as the NHS has to evolve.
If the claims made by the government that most people won't lose out under the proposal is false then this is clearly bad form from the government.
Having said that, the NHS clearly needs major reform as we can't keep spending more money on it above the rate of GDP growth, year after year, as this has major implications for other public services.
We need to ensure that the money that is allocated to public services is appropriately spent - that means on providing front line services and paying employee salaries, NOT subsidising massive pensions for staff.
Edited by sidicks on Thursday 26th November 14:28
I can't argue with any of your points, the only problem is that Hunt isn't doing major reform is he (or if he is I must have missed it)?
Major reform is certainly needed. However (as I have said repeatedly) I would suggest there are easier and more obvious places to start than junior doctors contracts.
mph1977 said:
fblm said:
Dear god I hope you're not actually involved I making life and death decisions.
^^^^^^^^^
The old cash v good health services will rumble on for decades to come. However, the Governments efforts with the bamboozle techniques have hit the buffers. J.D. are quite rightly truly peed off with the attitude displayed toward them, not to mention the lack of negotiation by the Government. If only Government would put pressure onto the R&D costs of medicines and equipment perhaps in an effort to have some reductions in these costs.
The old cash v good health services will rumble on for decades to come. However, the Governments efforts with the bamboozle techniques have hit the buffers. J.D. are quite rightly truly peed off with the attitude displayed toward them, not to mention the lack of negotiation by the Government. If only Government would put pressure onto the R&D costs of medicines and equipment perhaps in an effort to have some reductions in these costs.
dubloon said:
If they don't want to be doctors they could always look for another job. Plenty of people would be happy to replace them.
They do want to be doctors, they will just look for another country. As for replacing them, they have to start before they make there gcse choices, so thats at least 9 years to graduating. Will make current waiting times seem a tad irrelevant.And for the record UCAS applications for med schools are down.
wolves_wanderer said:
dubloon said:
If they don't want to be doctors they could always look for another job. Plenty of people would be happy to replace them.
Haha, yeah, a couple of ads in a job centre will do it 
Becoming a medic certainly requires high grades at A-levels to enter one of the ~26 medical schools in England (iirc) or one of the ~5 in Scotland, not forgetting the vocation-mission aspect often associated with studying medicine.
With only ~6 veterinary schools in England and 2 in Scotland it would be even more of a waste of time advertising in job centres, the grades required being potentially higher than required for medicine (practised on humans). Pooch and Kitty never had it so good.
Dixy said:
They do want to be doctors, they will just look for another country. As for replacing them, they have to start before they make there gcse choices, so thats at least 9 years to graduating. Will make current waiting times seem a tad irrelevant.
And for the record UCAS applications for med schools are down.
Just out of interest, do you need good punctuation and grammar to be a doctor?And for the record UCAS applications for med schools are down.
sidicks said:
Dixy said:
They do want to be doctors, they will just look for another country. As for replacing them, they have to start before they make there gcse choices, so thats at least 9 years to graduating. Will make current waiting times seem a tad irrelevant.
And for the record UCAS applications for med schools are down.
Just out of interest, do you need good punctuation and grammar to be a doctor?And for the record UCAS applications for med schools are down.
They will all have an absolute minimum of 3 A grades at A level, and that will be no guarantee of a place in Uni to study medicine. They will then spend 5 years at Uni.
But don't worry, when they are writing or dictating a letter that might just save your life, they'll be happy to know that there are some who will be more interested in spelling grammar and punctuation than content and context.
'
turbobloke said:
wolves_wanderer said:
dubloon said:
If they don't want to be doctors they could always look for another job. Plenty of people would be happy to replace them.
Haha, yeah, a couple of ads in a job centre will do it Becoming a medic certainly requires high grades at A-levels to enter one of the ~26 medical schools in England (iirc) or one of the ~5 in Scotland, not forgetting the vocation-mission aspect often associated with studying medicine.
With only ~6 veterinary schools in England and 2 in Scotland it would be even more of a waste of time advertising in job centres, the grades required being potentially higher than required for medicine (practised on humans). Pooch and Kitty never had it so good.
For those who do not already know, that chirpy fellow who helped oil Murdoch's wheels, and who currently masquerades as SoS for Health, co-authored a book on dismantling the NHS.
See: http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/09/jeremy-hunt-...
If having read his book you think he's on a winner, here's an idea of the kind of bills you will get when you become old or ill if he or his fellow travellers get their way:
See: http://cavemancircus.com/2014/01/16/shouldnt-get-s...
See: http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/09/jeremy-hunt-...
If having read his book you think he's on a winner, here's an idea of the kind of bills you will get when you become old or ill if he or his fellow travellers get their way:
See: http://cavemancircus.com/2014/01/16/shouldnt-get-s...
IanA2 said:
For those who do not already know, that chirpy fellow who helped oil Murdoch's wheels, and who currently masquerades as SoS for Health, co-authored a book on dismantling the NHS.
See: http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/09/jeremy-hunt-...
If having read his book you think he's on a winner, here's an idea of the kind of bills you will get when you become old or ill if he or his fellow travellers get their way:
See: http://cavemancircus.com/2014/01/16/shouldnt-get-s...
Relevance?See: http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/09/jeremy-hunt-...
If having read his book you think he's on a winner, here's an idea of the kind of bills you will get when you become old or ill if he or his fellow travellers get their way:
See: http://cavemancircus.com/2014/01/16/shouldnt-get-s...
If you honestly think that the Tories plan to 'dismantle the NHS' then you're more deluded than I thought.
ArmaghMan said:
Probably not, but they will all have A or A* at GCE or GCSE in English with another 9 or 10 A grades to go with it.
They will all have an absolute minimum of 3 A grades at A level, and that will be no guarantee of a place in Uni to study medicine. They will then spend 5 years at Uni.
But don't worry, when they are writing or dictating a letter that might just save your life, they'll be happy to know that there are some who will be more interested in spelling grammar and punctuation than content and context.
'
Many of us comfortably exceed those requirements (although to be fair I do come from an era where an 'A*' was simply called an 'A' and equivalently the current 'A' rating was simply referred to as a 'B')...They will all have an absolute minimum of 3 A grades at A level, and that will be no guarantee of a place in Uni to study medicine. They will then spend 5 years at Uni.
But don't worry, when they are writing or dictating a letter that might just save your life, they'll be happy to know that there are some who will be more interested in spelling grammar and punctuation than content and context.
'
Edited by sidicks on Thursday 26th November 21:16
turbobloke said:
Decisions decisions...bricklayer, GP...
Becoming a medic certainly requires high grades at A-levels to enter one of the ~26 medical schools in England (iirc) or one of the ~5 in Scotland, not forgetting the vocation-mission aspect often associated with studying medicine.
With only ~6 veterinary schools in England and 2 in Scotland it would be even more of a waste of time advertising in job centres, the grades required being potentially higher than required for medicine (practised on humans). Pooch and Kitty never had it so good.
Or perhaps providing medical care for more than one species is more demanding than just one.Becoming a medic certainly requires high grades at A-levels to enter one of the ~26 medical schools in England (iirc) or one of the ~5 in Scotland, not forgetting the vocation-mission aspect often associated with studying medicine.
With only ~6 veterinary schools in England and 2 in Scotland it would be even more of a waste of time advertising in job centres, the grades required being potentially higher than required for medicine (practised on humans). Pooch and Kitty never had it so good.
sidicks said:
Dixy said:
They do want to be doctors, they will just look for another country. As for replacing them, they have to start before they make there gcse choices, so thats at least 9 years to graduating. Will make current waiting times seem a tad irrelevant.
And for the record UCAS applications for med schools are down.
Just out of interest, do you need good punctuation and grammar to be a doctor?And for the record UCAS applications for med schools are down.
Dixy said:
sidicks said:
Just out of interest, do you need good punctuation and grammar to be a doctor?
As I am far too stupid to be a doctor I don't know, but again if you bothered to read others replies you would already know that.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff