Junior Doctor's contracts petition

[turbobloke]

Dixy said:

Turbo, you may wish to consult one of those money grabbing left wing rabble, it would seem your sense of balance is seriously out.

I post the images, you spout the rhetoric, I'm fine thanks.

[jjlynn27]

barryrs said:

So the strikes off then, wonder how much it took?

It took, from what I've heard, for JH to agree arbitration by ACAS and drop at least some preconditions. Was completely avoidable.

[turbobloke]

jjlynn27 said:

barryrs said:

So the strikes off then, wonder how much it took?

It took, from what I've heard, for JH to agree arbitration by ACAS and drop at least some preconditions. Was completely avoidable.

Knowing what's avoidable and what's not, what does your crystal ball say about the endgame?

[968]

turbobloke said:

I post the images, you spout the rhetoric, I'm fine thanks.

No you post bks others post facts. Pick any random images that suit your point of view if you like. It changes nothing. You have not one iota of the issues at stake or what it means for you and the NHS as evidenced by your posts.

[julian64]

968 said:

turbobloke said:

I post the images, you spout the rhetoric, I'm fine thanks.

No you post bks others post facts. Pick any random images that suit your point of view if you like. It changes nothing. You have not one iota of the issues at stake or what it means for you and the NHS as evidenced by your posts.

Jeremy hunt was on the TV this morning saying all could have been avoided if the BMA had just come to the negotiating table.

What an absolute bare faced attempt to skew history. Its him that shut down negotiation and offered an ultimatum rather than negotiation. How do these politicians even have the neck?

[Dixy]

Hunt this morning was beyond out of order, how can he say in one breath that he is going to impose it and then complain that they would not negotiate.

[jjlynn27]

turbobloke said:

Knowing what's avoidable and what's not, what does your crystal ball say about the endgame?

How could I possibly know? I maintained that JH is lying pos all along. As for the crystal ball, haven't used it for a while, but lets see;

crystal ball said:

turbobloke types irrelevant posts on almost every thread. When asked very simple questions, pertinent to the thread, he'll dodge them, repeating one of his tired 'leftie', 'public workers labour voters with non jobs', 'liebore' and so on. He'll find random images, regardless of how unrelated and unrepresentative they are and post them as a proof of something.

Seems that crystal ball is working fine.

[turbobloke]

jjlynn27 said:

turbobloke said:

Knowing what's avoidable and what's not, what does your crystal ball say about the endgame?

How could I possibly know? I maintained that JH is lying pos all along. As for the crystal ball, haven't used it for a while, but lets see;

crystal ball said:

turbobloke types irrelevant posts on almost every thread. When asked very simple questions, pertinent to the thread, he'll dodge them, repeating one of his tired 'leftie', 'public workers labour voters with non jobs', 'liebore' and so on. He'll find random images, regardless of how unrelated and unrepresentative they are and post them as a proof of something.

Seems that crystal ball is working fine.

It must have also told you that posting personalised drivel would get you nowhere though experience at this stage would have told you anyway.

The only dodging going on is you and others avoiding the reality in images before your very eyes.

Clearly it touched several nerves being shown that junior doctors are protesting about pay (when the ludicrous claim is otherwise) and that the obvious anti-Tory political angle is obvious after being pointed out via images of junior doctors with politicised slogans that are basically mendacious union propaganda.

You and a couple of others may need to see a neurologist about that touched nerve thing, it's probably easier than it was as a strike has been called off.

[968]

turbobloke said:

It must have also told you that posting personalised drivel would get you nowhere though experience at this stage would have told you anyway.

The only dodging going on is you and others avoiding the reality in images before your very eyes.

Clearly it touched several nerves being shown that junior doctors are protesting about pay (when the ludicrous claim is otherwise) and that the obvious anti-Tory political angle is obvious after being pointed out via images of junior doctors with politicised slogans that are basically mendacious union propaganda.

You and a couple of others may need to see a neurologist about that touched nerve thing, it's probably easier than it was as a strike has been called off.

Unfortunately you continuously post drivel in an attempt to sound clever. Just stop as you're embarrassing yourself. You know precisely nothing about this issue, nothing about the contracts and nothing about what junior doctors do so keep your opinions to yourself because they are the same lying rubbish that comes out of Hunt's mouth.

Edited by 968 on Tuesday 1st December 11:24

[turbobloke]

968 said:

turbobloke said:

It must have also told you that posting personalised drivel would get you nowhere though experience at this stage would have told you anyway.

The only dodging going on is you and others avoiding the reality in images before your very eyes.

Clearly it touched several nerves being shown that junior doctors are protesting about pay (when the ludicrous claim is otherwise) and that the obvious anti-Tory political angle is obvious after being pointed out via images of junior doctors with politicised slogans that are basically mendacious union propaganda.

You and a couple of others may need to see a neurologist about that touched nerve thing, it's probably easier than it was as a strike has been called off.

Unfortunately you continuously post drivel in an attempt to sound clever.

And you're here to tell me otherwise, why, thank you! Impartial feedback from neutral parties is always appreciated rejected

You were here not long ago claiming that doctors weren't protesting about moolah, as you know a single counter-example disproves a theory so you obviously haven't taken kindly to having yours blown out of the water.

968 said:

Just stop as you're embarrassing yourself.

I'm, embarrassing you and others with their silly claims of not being about money and not being politicised. So, it would be OK for you if I stopped!

After consideration, as I'm not breaking posting rules by proving you wrong with pics, I'll carry on thanks all the same

968 said:

You know precisely nothing about this issue, nothing about the contracts and nothing about what junior doctors do so keep your opinions to yourself because they are the same lying rubbish that comes out of Hunt's mouth.

Yet amazingly and annoyingly for you I know what the slogans on placards say, which - given that was the point being discussed after you posted a claim I disproved with a single image - is what matters.

Another nerve touched, another neurologocal appointment needed

Keep up the personal attention, I'm lovin' it (because it reveals the total lack of anything remotely evidential).

[Richyboy]

All this for one of the worst health care systems in europe, rated 15th or 16th, correct me if I'm wrong. We're like 10-15 years behind some european countries for treating the major ailments. Any attempt to save the black hole is met with media outcry. Red tory would need thatcher's balls to deal with this and they don't have them lol.

[wolves_wanderer]

turbobloke said:

Yet amazingly and annoyingly for you I know what the slogans on placards say, which - given that was the point being discussed after you posted a claim I disproved with a single image -

You keep referring back to that image as if it proves that all JDs voted for strike action because of a political angle when in fact all it proves that some people who went on a march have a political angle. Shock horror. Bizarre behaviour when you are so quick to dismiss as anecdote people telling you about friends/family/colleagues who are not political but who are against this pay settlement.

Odd as it may seem, there isn't a massive conspiracy of "lefties" among JDs, certainly among the ones that I know. Surely to a normal person the fact that people so un-militant as doctors are prepared to take strike action would suggest that they maybe have a point worth listening to in a way that striking teachers or tube drivers wouldn't.

[jjlynn27]

turbobloke said:

It must have also told you that posting personalised drivel would get you nowhere though experience at this stage would have told you anyway.

You asked the question. Answer was tailored to intended audience.

turbobloke said:

The only dodging going on is you and others avoiding the reality in images before your very eyes.

Seems that the memory is failing you. The questions posted several pages ago still stand. Yet you'll dodge them once again, which is what you normally do.

turbobloke said:

Clearly it touched several nerves being shown that junior doctors are protesting about pay (when the ludicrous claim is otherwise) and that the obvious anti-Tory political angle is obvious after being pointed out via images of junior doctors with politicised slogans that are basically mendacious union propaganda.

They are protesting about conditions and part of that is pay, from what I've been told by actual doctors, after consultation with HR.
The 'anti-Tory' angle is in your head. As usual you picked few which are, as previously explained, totally unrepresentative.

turbobloke said:

You and a couple of others may need to see a neurologist about that touched nerve thing, it's probably easier than it was as a strike has been called off.

You seem to confuse 'touched nerve thing' with mocking someone who's so blinkered that everything appears to be left and right issue.

[jjlynn27]

Richyboy said:

All this for one of the worst health care systems in europe, rated 15th or 16th, correct me if I'm wrong. We're like 10-15 years behind some european countries for treating the major ailments. Any attempt to save the black hole is met with media outcry. Red tory would need thatcher's balls to deal with this and they don't have them lol.

Nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread, but after reading your post, I'm not surprised by your confusion.

[Dixy]

Turbo, it may seem complicated to you that this is about many things. Pay is part of it, Hunt has said he will increase basic by 11% and cut overall by 30%, keeping it simple for you that is about a 20 % pay cut.
That is one of the twenty two points.
Hunt wants to change the control procedures that safeguard excessive hours being worked.
Those are 2 of 22, Hunt realised at the 11th hour that he had turned up to a gun fight with a knife and to protect his puffed up ego he is now posturing.
As far as your ramblings about it being political, their dispute is with their employer, the secretary of state for health, he happens to be a tory, if he was labour, ukip, communist or Nazi, they would oppose it.

[turbobloke]

Dixy said:

Turbo, it may seem complicated to you that this is about many things. Pay is part of it, Hunt has said he will increase basic by 11% and cut overall by 30%, keeping it simple for you that is about a 20 % pay cut.
That is one of the twenty two points.
Hunt wants to change the control procedures that safeguard excessive hours being worked.
Those are 2 of 22, Hunt realised at the 11th hour that he had turned up to a gun fight with a knife and to protect his puffed up ego he is now posturing.
As far as your ramblings about it being political, their dispute is with their employer, the secretary of state for health, he happens to be a tory, if he was labour, ukip, communist or Nazi, they would oppose it.

Complicated? Ho Ho Ho, your assertion, not reality.

All fair and fine but a) if people claim that doctors are not protesting about pay and there's a placard with the slogal involving peanuts and monkeys, and there are more images online for anyone who wishes to search, then the claim is lost and b) the idea that this isn't politicised is risible, again images that show junior doctors wearing T-shirts claiming that one should never trust the NHS to a Tory and there are placards about privatisation when Labour are more guilty, the case is lost.

If those same people don't like reality that's one thing, arguing against it is silly and for all the claims of embarrassment and lack of knowledge, that reality (of motives at union and individual levels) is something that certain partisan PHers on this thread dislike having pushed in front of their face; that's tough titty. The dispute is politicised and it's about pay, all the whiny carp about saving the NHS is part bluster designed to gull a gullible public high on the emotion of family medicare issues into supporting strike action.

[IanA2]

jjlynn27 said:

Richyboy said:

All this for one of the worst health care systems in europe, rated 15th or 16th, correct me if I'm wrong. We're like 10-15 years behind some european countries for treating the major ailments. Any attempt to save the black hole is met with media outcry. Red tory would need thatcher's balls to deal with this and they don't have them lol.

Nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread, but after reading your post, I'm not surprised by your confusion.

And worth remembering that in funding terms NHS has the lowest %GDP in OECD.

[turbobloke]

IanA2 said:

jjlynn27 said:

Richyboy said:

All this for one of the worst health care systems in europe, rated 15th or 16th, correct me if I'm wrong. We're like 10-15 years behind some european countries for treating the major ailments. Any attempt to save the black hole is met with media outcry. Red tory would need thatcher's balls to deal with this and they don't have them lol.

Nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread, but after reading your post, I'm not surprised by your confusion.

And worth remembering that in funding terms NHS has the lowest %GDP in OECD.

What proportion of that is lost to waste, fraud and error?

The budget / input side is only part of the story. How could you forget the massive losses due to waste, fraud and error? Just one of those things I guess.

[wolves_wanderer]

turbobloke said:

Complicated? Ho Ho Ho, your assertion, not reality.

All fair and fine but a) if people claim that doctors are not protesting about pay and there's a placard with the slogal involving peanuts and monkeys, and there are more images online for anyone who wishes to search, then the claim is lost and b) the idea that this isn't politicised is risible, again images that show junior doctors wearing T-shirts claiming that one should never trust the NHS to a Tory and there are placards about privatisation when Labour are more guilty, the case is lost.

If those same people don't like reality that's one thing, arguing against it is silly and for all the claims of embarrassment and lack of knowledge, that reality (of motives at union and individual levels) is something that certain partisan PHers on this thread dislike having pushed in front of their face; that's tough titty. The dispute is politicised and it's about pay, all the whiny carp about saving the NHS is part bluster designed to gull a gullible public high on the emotion of family medicare issues into supporting strike action.

For the 95th time. Just because some people at a protest are saying those things doesn't mean that it represents the primary or even a significant motivation of the huge number of people who voted for a strike.

[wolves_wanderer]

turbobloke said:

What proportion of that is lost to waste, fraud and error?

The budget / input side is only part of the story. How could you forget the massive losses due to waste, fraud and error? Just one of those things I guess.

I would be interested to see how this "waste, fraud and error" compares to other national health services. Perhaps you have information that ours is significantly different to others on that list?