Junior Doctor's contracts petition

[barryrs]

Jeez, this thread is like wading through treacle.

please highlight exactly where I said or suggested rotas could be chosen.

With regards to working hours, the NHS is a 7 day service as far as JD's are concerned is it not?

If hospitals have JD's in attendance or on call 24/7 at the moment how could the proposed changes make a difference to current coverage?

[mph1977]

barryrs said:

If hospitals have JD's in attendance or on call 24/7 at the moment how could the proposed changes make a difference to current coverage?

by encouraging full shift working rather than hundreds of patients being in the hands of a handful of doctors from 1801 hrs to 0830 hrs every night and from 1801hours friday until 0830hrs monday .

the only influence over pay bill that trusts have with junior doctors is attempting to game it to provide the minimum cover required during unsocial hours as trusts only pay for the banding / USH for juniors vs the deanery paying their basic.

gaming of shift times for all staff groups has been standard practice since , ooh guess what, the NHS became aobut bread and circuses in May 1997 ...

[jjlynn27]

barryrs said:

Jeez, this thread is like wading through treacle.

please highlight exactly where I said or suggested rotas could be chosen.

What does 'influencing' rotas mean? Hey 'rota-deciding-person', do you mind if I don't work some Thursdays, as I have line dancing lessons?'. They have, in words that you might understand, fvck all influence on, and/or in choosing rotas.

barryrs said:

Perhaps you need to change your work patterns.

Paul-M said:

I have no say over my work patterns at all. When I move hospitals in February they will change again. (To a 1A banding in my next job)

I'm unsure what is confusing.

barryrs said:

With regards to working hours, the NHS is a 7 day service as far as JD's are concerned is it not?


If hospitals have JD's in attendance or on call 24/7 at the moment how could the proposed changes make a difference to current coverage?

Not sure if trolling or just . More procedures are performed during the week than on weekends, therefore you have more doctors during the week. Proposed changes want to increase number of doctors in hospital during weekends.

[Dixy]

barryrs said:

I simply cant believe this process is not being followed as if not there would be uproar from JD's

The bit you need to comprehend is that most Doctors dedicate their entire being to becoming a doctor from before they make their gcse choices, so when a bullying trust manager threatens to question their fitness to practice, the JD just rolls over and accepts the st. If you find this difficult to believe, note that the BMA had to get councils opinion to prove to JDs before they voted for a strike that they would not be struck off if a patient claimed to have suffered.

I am the archetypal PH co director and would not dare to treat my staff like the NHS does with impunity, Hunt has just added one straw too many.

This has to be seen to be believed which is why those of us that have a personal interest if not vested are so vociferousness.

[IanA2]

Dixy said:

barryrs said:

I simply cant believe this process is not being followed as if not there would be uproar from JD's

The bit you need to comprehend is that most Doctors dedicate their entire being to becoming a doctor from before they make their gcse choices, so when a bullying trust manager threatens to question their fitness to practice, the JD just rolls over and accepts the st. If you find this difficult to believe, note that the BMA had to get councils opinion to prove to JDs before they voted for a strike that they would not be struck off if a patient claimed to have suffered.

I am the archetypal PH co director and would not dare to treat my staff like the NHS does with impunity, Hunt has just added one straw too many.

This has to be seen to be believed which is why those of us that have a personal interest if not vested are so vociferousness.

So true, I was managing director of a service in the public sector. I saw how my wife was treated in the NHS and frequently said to her that If I treated my staff the way the NHS managers treated the clinicians, I would undoubtedly be sacked for gross misconduct. And rightly so.

[barryrs]

jjlynn27 said:

Not sure if trolling or just . More procedures are performed during the week than on weekends, therefore you have more doctors during the week. Proposed changes want to increase number of doctors in hospital during weekends.

Ah I get you; we currently have a situation where trusts under staff out of hours in order to save money but after the changes trusts will stuff hospitals with staff at weekends (which is still out of hours) even if there's no clinical need.

All becomes clear.

This topic has turned into a massive moan about NHS management rather than contracts.

[jjlynn27]

barryrs said:

Ah I get you; we currently have a situation where trusts under staff out of hours in order to save money but after the changes trusts will stuff hospitals with staff at weekends (which is still out of hours) even if there's no clinical need.

All becomes clear.

This topic has turned into a massive moan about NHS management rather than contracts.

You asked questions, after not understanding basics. The basics were explained to you, several times. You found them hard to believe, or understand.

I don't think that you 'get me'. I don't think anything is clear to you. You still don't understand the basics. The trusts are understaffed both during the week and out-of-hours/weekend.

But you'll type things like 'all becomes clear' which is not unexpected from someone who'll type 'hmm, just choose lower hours rota and you'll lose less money'.

[barryrs]

What can I say, news reports, BMA and government say one thing but tetchy bloke on the net says another.

On what basis shall I form an opinion?

[jjlynn27]

barryrs said:

What can I say, news reports, BMA and government say one thing but tetchy bloke on the net says another.

On what basis shall I form an opinion?

If that's the case, coming for more info on a car forum was pretty dumb idea to start with.

[IanA2]

Tbh, the only way the naysayers will come out of their comatose ignorance/complacency will be when a half conscious Junior slips up and they/their loved ones suffer a serious untoward incident.

[mph1977]

IanA2 said:

Tbh, the only way the naysayers will come out of their comatose ignorance/complacency will be when a half conscious Junior slips up and they/their loved ones suffer a serious untoward incident.

becasue as usual the trust will just chuck a band 5 Registered Nurse under the bandwagon to be seen to be doing something

[IanA2]

[turbobloke]

IanA2 said:

Looks like a similar situation to teachers. Of those that make it through 'training' only three years for a bachelor degree and one more for qualified teacher status, 40% then quit within a year.

[IanA2]

turbobloke said:

IanA2 said:

Looks like a similar situation to teachers. Of those that make it through 'training' only three years for a bachelor degree and one more for qualified teacher status, 40% then quit within a year.

They are not quitting medicine, they are going elsewhere. Applications for certificate of good standing, a cert often required to practise abroad, is soaring.

See: http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advice/Are_more_doc...

and:

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/home/finance-and-pract...

[turbobloke]

IanA2 said:

turbobloke said:

IanA2 said:

Looks like a similar situation to teachers. Of those that make it through 'training' only three years for a bachelor degree and one more for qualified teacher status, 40% then quit within a year.

They are not quitting medicine, they are going elsewhere. Applications for certificate of good standing, a cert often required to practise abroad, is soaring.

See: http://careers.bmj.com/careers/advice/Are_more_doc...

and:

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/home/finance-and-pract...

That's reassuring, at least their training isn't totally wasted.

Equally not all ex-teachers are now shelf stacking, some go into related careers.

Do 40% of junior doctors quit within a year?

[Dixy]

For all of you critics, be thankful that they are working at this time for time and a half so the rest of us can be merry.

[Slartifartfast]

And the Consultants. (£Time and a third tomorrow)

[turbobloke]

Dixy said:

For all of you critics, be thankful that they are working at this time for time and a half so the rest of us can be merry.

Well, an observer could say 'like bar staff' as the match is a good one from the above description, but ISWYM and it's a good thing, yes.

[Zoobeef]

And the police, fire brigade, forces, taxi drivers etc etc.

[loafer123]

Yes, thanks to all those who work through Christmas, from railway construction workers to petrol station attendants, policemen, doctors, nurses, highways agency, firemen et al.