Sugar tax

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Discussion

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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otolith said:
turbobloke said:
otolith said:
Too often it boils down to "the government should keep its nose out of my stuff, but everyone else is fair game". It's a bit like free speech, in that the real test of whether you believe in it is whether you are still in favour when you don't like the outcome.
I can see that applying generally, but only on PH from non-libertarians i.e. the new form of illiberal 'liberal' lefty. Most PHers who are libertarian in their post content tend to remain of the detest-what-you-say-but-defend-your-right-to-say-it type...or has that missed a point somewhere?!
Yes, what I mean is that there are many people who think they are libertarian in outlook, but actually, when push comes to shove, are authoritarian hypocrites. Tobacco control threads are another good place to smoke them out.
Aye. These illiberal liberal lefties are most amusing.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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Also, I'm finding it amusing that some people are surprised at "energy drinks" containing lots of sugar.

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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Just watched rip-off britain? biggrin
otolith said:
Yes, what I mean is that there are many people who think they are libertarian in outlook, but actually, when push comes to shove, are authoritarian hypocrites. Tobacco control threads are another good place to smoke them out.
I think it also comes down to being a pragmatist and using critical thinking. Having an '-ism' as a foundation stone is fine, but if you then use that to roll over everything even in the face of data, then one becomes a fundamentalist, and inflexible things are brittle and don't last or do much good in the long term. Malleability and adaptability to circumstances while still gently trying to go in a certain direction is a good compromise.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
Halb said:
I think it also comes down to being a pragmatist and using critical thinking. Having an '-ism' as a foundation stone is fine, but if you then use that to roll over everything even in the face of data, then one becomes a fundamentalist, and inflexible things are brittle and don't last or do much good in the long term. Malleability and adaptability to circumstances while still gently trying to go in a certain direction is a good compromise.
What kind of data challenges your principles? If you believe that what a person does with their own body is their own business, what difference does data make?

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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A dietician's comment when 'caught' eating a Mars bar:

"There's no such thing as a bad food, only a bad diet"

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
woowahwoo said:
Rovinghawk said:
A dietician's comment when 'caught' eating a Mars bar:

"There's no such thing as a bad food, only a bad diet"
helps you work, rest, play. And that's why I eat a Mars bar for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Deep fried?

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
otolith said:
What kind of data challenges your principles? If you believe that what a person does with their own body is their own business, what difference does data make?
I'm talking in the abstract. With '-ism's'

As for sugar, it's a murky world where misinformation has been rife for decades.
The book; Pure, White and Deadly is a good read.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5261610-pure-wh...
Also, the documentary; The Men Who Made Us Fat is most brilliant at showing the underlying reasons for our current issues.

Foliage

3,861 posts

121 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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For me its - is another 'tax' that will be just added to the coffers really a good idea or should the government be doing more to support, guide and educate people.


Ive had enough with the government trying to control people behaviour by taking money from them, its seem that their is an ulterior motive for doing that.

VED was 5.9bn last year, how was that spent? was it spent dealing with the problem that we are being taxed for causing?

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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Foliage said:
For me its - is another 'tax' that will be just added to the coffers really a good idea or should the government be doing more to support, guide and educate people.
I'm more for there being strict rules on added sugar in processed foods and other things. But Hunt has done very little thus far.
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/jeremy-hunt-has-do...

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
Halb said:
Foliage said:
For me its - is another 'tax' that will be just added to the coffers really a good idea or should the government be doing more to support, guide and educate people.
I'm more for there being strict rules on added sugar in processed foods and other things. But Hunt has done very little thus far.
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/jeremy-hunt-has-do...
Fair enough, that's one perspective, but if even a small trace of glue has been prevented from reaching Nanny State's nipples, removing the likelihood of yet more people stuck on the teat, that's fine by me.

Foliage

3,861 posts

121 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
Halb said:
Foliage said:
For me its - is another 'tax' that will be just added to the coffers really a good idea or should the government be doing more to support, guide and educate people.
I'm more for there being strict rules on added sugar in processed foods and other things. But Hunt has done very little thus far.
http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/jeremy-hunt-has-do...
Me to. Its either that they don't want to upset food manufacturers and retailers, or they just don't get it, that we are buying food that's available, perhaps some of this food shouldn't be available in its current form.


chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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If you want sugar free foods, you do really have to be on the ball and do your research.

There's an awful lot of crap out there, some even advertised as health foods!

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
chris watton said:
If you want sugar free foods, you do really have to be on the ball and do your research.

There's an awful lot of crap out there, some even advertised as health foods!
Indeed, isn't "healthy" yoghurt one of the most notable sinners?

Foliage

3,861 posts

121 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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My point though is that tax shouldn't be used as a means of manipulating the population.

Obesity needs to be dealt with.

Also calories make you fat not sugar, if they add a sugar tax they should add a bread/potato/rice/pasta tax aswell.

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
Foliage said:
Obesity needs to be dealt with.
Decide, on an individual basis...

Eat less. Exercise more.

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
Fair enough, that's one perspective, but if even a small trace of glue has been prevented from reaching Nanny State's nipples, removing the likelihood of yet more people stuck on the teat, that's fine by me.
A tax on nipple sucking?

Foliage said:
Me to. Its either that they don't want to upset food manufacturers and retailers, or they just don't get it, that we are buying food that's available, perhaps some of this food shouldn't be available in its current form.
I think that's it. The food industry is perhaps, the most powerful industry in the world. They have dictated (the sugar arm especially) terms to governments for years, look at how the sugar lobby has bashed WHO and the UN for years. I thought Hunt has connection to the food industry too, but can't find it now. biggrin
I don't see why added sugar should be in a lot of savoury processed foods.
So companies are let off, but people are hit with the added tax.

Foliage

3,861 posts

121 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
chris watton said:
If you want sugar free foods, you do really have to be on the ball and do your research.

There's an awful lot of crap out there, some even advertised as health foods!
Indeed, isn't "healthy" yoghurt one of the most notable sinners?
Not really, dumb people are the biggest problem, hence why I think education is key.

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
Foliage said:
turbobloke said:
chris watton said:
If you want sugar free foods, you do really have to be on the ball and do your research.

There's an awful lot of crap out there, some even advertised as health foods!
Indeed, isn't "healthy" yoghurt one of the most notable sinners?
Not really, dumb people are the biggest problem, hence why I think education is key.
Lack of willpower is the biggest problem - alongside me glands, duck.

Educate away, without willpower people will still stuff cake into their face on the sofa but in an informed state.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
Halb said:
I don't see why added sugar should be in a lot of savoury processed foods.
Because people like eating it, and if you make your product taste nice, people buy it. People like the taste of fat, salt, sugar. Just the way they're wired.

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
Foliage said:
Also calories make you fat not sugar, if they add a sugar tax they should add a bread/potato/rice/pasta tax aswell.
Sugar (if rfined sugar is what you mean) helps, and increases the chance of obesity.
THere is a reason why the USA/UK are geting obese and heading to wards a diabetes epidemic now (forget obesity). The increased of refined sugar in the USA/UK diet is a large part of this. There are reasons why the yanks (and more Brits) stick added sugar in their foods and drinks. One of them is it makes people consume more.