Paris shooting and casualties ?
Discussion
rscott said:
fesuvious said:
skyrover said:
Thank You.
t spoken doesn't exist, not actually written down plainly for anyone to read. The great thing about religion is you can cherry pick quotes and hold them up as proof of something - 'hey look at this nice bit'. The problem being in religions case the holy books contain really nasty hate filled st that is a part of the basis of the whole religion but has no place in 2015. rscott said:
Mr_B said:
rscott said:
fesuvious said:
skyrover said:
Thank You.t spoken doesn't exist, not actually written down plainly for anyone to read. The great thing about religion is you can cherry pick quotes and hold them up as proof of something - 'hey look at this nice bit'. The problem being in religions case the holy books contain really nasty hate filled st that is a part of the basis of the whole religion but has no place in 2015. Let me ask you a question. If I tried to defend a white supremacist group who had written aims and statements and contain a whole bunch of really nasty stuff about how others are inferior or lesser , about fighting them , killing, hating and so on and so on, but tried to then say ignore all that because of this quote which says 'be nice to everyone', I'm pretty sure you would say it contains too much hate and that even one mention of it is too much. Yes ?
If I invited you to join any club, organisation or even newly formed religion with that, you would reject it outright as tainted if it contained anything other than 100% non discrimination, at least I hope you would. It's a shame people born today still sign up for this crap, or in reality, told they believe it from birth and never shake it off.
I'm afraid the reality is we are lucky most Muslims in the UK are lazy ones who cherry pick a version that fits what they want and reject most of the hate filled parts. Sadly though ISIS and it's fans have gone back to basics and believe in a strict version and don't reject the hate parts. The big lie being it's a warped version and not a true version. You know, a bit like what Labour has done in voting for Jeremy Corbyn - a back to basics loon version of hardcore Labour true to its heritage. OK, that last bit is a bit of a jibe towards Corbyn fans, I admit.
Stickyfinger said:
Welcome to the Luton Caliphate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8WVkbXOHfM
That's your support base for extreme views right there, the breeding ground for for future dangerous and violent people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8WVkbXOHfM
Some here want to take comfort of posting internet pictures saying how the number of people who actually do the shooting and the bombing numbers 0.00001% and can then switch off thinking that number is all that matters. The real question is how many are like those in that clip ( I've seen the full documentary ) because that is where the problem is at, not just in terrorist bomb and gun attacks, but in your Trojan Horse cases and general division in the country. Something tells me it's not 0.00001% or even 1% but is probably in double figures.
La Liga said:
Mr_B said:
Something tells me it's not 0.00001% or even 1% but is probably in double figures.
You best pass that something on then, as I expect the security services will be surprised they have over 270k people to worry about. rscott said:
hornetrider said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Welcome to the Luton Caliphate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8WVkbXOHfM
@3.45:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8WVkbXOHfM
Interviewer: Please may you tell me who this group are and why you're out today
Nutjob: You find here today a number of people from Luton who are just ordinary Muslims from the local community. Some of them used to be part of Al Mujaharoon or Muslims Against Crusades [are there still Crusades
].@4.10
Interviewer: What's the solution, if Muslim people are in the wrong and they are committing crimes. No one's above the law.
Nutjob: If the law of the land is Islamic we will respect the law of the land.
Interview: What if it's not Islamic?
Nut job: If it's not Islamic then the law of the land and those who make it can go to hell quite honestly. Because [some bulls
t about the Koran]...Sooooo...These are your ordinary Muslims eh?
k me. I mean, fk me. If you don't like it here, fk off. What a .Jesus I'm coming over all BNP but that t
t has really boiled my piss. I'd suggest her views are uncommon to the point of being in double percentage figures, and her attitude towards how she is dressed and assumption she is trying to seduce someone is also an attitude shared by many a Rochdale taxi driver.
Pistom said:
I thought he talking about the presenter at first and then I realised he was on about the Muslim nutter.
The people in the video were protesting at what they saw was a wrong doing by the Police.
The presenter was deliberately being provocative and winding up the simple minded folk for the camera.
I wish people could see beyond these soundbites but I guess they'd need n education for that.
I knew a nutter like the Muslim guy in this clip. Her views were as exteme as this guys.
The difference was, she was an RE teacher at a catholic school. This was in the 1970s where kids were being taught that the IRA were freedom fighters and that the British Government were evil.
There is danger from these religious nut jobs but there is also danger from those who use the nutters for their 5 mins of fame together with the simpletons who allow their piss to be boiled by it.
How was she being provocative and how do you know they are simple minded folk ? Oh, the Police wrong doing was the arrest of the wife of a suicide bomber. Why would people be outraged and have to march because of that, doesn't say a lot if you cluelessly start siding towards such people. What did you think of the womans opinion she freely offered that she was trying to seduce someone and looked naked ? An attitude seemingly not uncommon with Rochdale taxi drivers.The people in the video were protesting at what they saw was a wrong doing by the Police.
The presenter was deliberately being provocative and winding up the simple minded folk for the camera.
I wish people could see beyond these soundbites but I guess they'd need n education for that.
I knew a nutter like the Muslim guy in this clip. Her views were as exteme as this guys.
The difference was, she was an RE teacher at a catholic school. This was in the 1970s where kids were being taught that the IRA were freedom fighters and that the British Government were evil.
There is danger from these religious nut jobs but there is also danger from those who use the nutters for their 5 mins of fame together with the simpletons who allow their piss to be boiled by it.
Pistom said:
Mr_B said:
How was she being provocative and how do you know they are simple minded folk ? Oh, the Police wrong doing was the arrest of the wife of a suicide bomber. Why would people be outraged and have to march because of that, doesn't say a lot if you cluelessly start siding towards such people. What did you think of the womans opinion she freely offered that she was trying to seduce someone and looked naked ? An attitude seemingly not uncommon with Rochdale taxi drivers.
She was being provocative with her questions and choice of clothing which any reasonable person would know was likely to cause offence in the company of those who were protesting. Nothing wrong with what she wore but inappropriate if she wanted a useful interview of those present. How do I know they were simple minded? Does someone who thinks women in pretty dresses look naked seem like someone who holds balanced considered views?
The protesters considered the way the wife was arrested and subsequently treated. My comment wasn't an opinion but a statement of their view.
The point of my post was that I wasn't siding on the view of any of them. All 3 as bad as each other.
As for my view of the woman who claimed the presenter was trying to seduce someone and looked naked - typical of the language of those who are trying to make ridiculous points.
Sadly, democracy and freedom also gives voice to the nutters and the manipulative too.
What were the specific loaded and provocative questions that she asked ?
The protest over the strip search during the arrest of the wife of a suicide bomber might suggest that if numbers of people really think that's a massive issue, then we have a lot of thick people in our midst. I can't get worked up if the spouse of a suicide bomber gets arrested and searched. Would you go and protest that ? It takes one thing again, a common religion and a victim card too.
Pistom said:
easytiger123 said:
I'd have some sympathy with that if she was interviewing them in a mosque. She wasn't though, was she. What she was doing was standing in the street of a town in England wearing a normal dress. Why is that in any way at all provocative?
So going to a minority march where the majority are dressed in Muslim garb and clearly have extreme views, wearing a red dress which shows the outline of her body when she knows that some Muslims find that offensive needs explanation of why that is provocative?Try getting onto a Manchester United match bus wearing blue and white on a derby day and see what a welcome you will get.
The video was about extremism in Luton. She needed piss boiling sound bites and didn't she just get them.
Can those of you who are reacting to crap like this not see how you are being manipulated?
The YouTube clip focused on about 100 people protesting out of a town of about 30,000 Muslims and a total population of about 200,000. This is the town known as the extremist capital of Britain FFS!!!
It's interesting to see that the part of the video selected focused on are the nut job protesters not the views of Omah interviewed later on or the other normal Muslims that are not as interesting.
If further demonstration was needed of her being deliberately provocative, later on, Stacey dresses up in Muslim garb and walks into Luton town centre to see what reaction she gets.
I'm not sure what you see as a well meaning intervention actually says about Muslims in the UK, since on one hand you want to treat them like babies unable to handle seeing a woman in a dress, while trying to berate people making gross assumptions.
Was hoping to hear some thoughts on the earlier questions I asked. Here's the post -
'Interesting. You might have thought anyone who wants to dress as a bee keepers outfit as a freedom of choice statement might also be tolerant of someone wanting to wear a dress and wouldn't find that as provocative in anyway. Doesn't sound so tolerant to me. I'd suggest burka womans views about basically calling her a white slut and looking down on her is a big problem and probably a large part of the Rochdale problem.
What were the specific loaded and provocative questions that she asked ?
The protest over the strip search during the arrest of the wife of a suicide bomber might suggest that if numbers of people really think that's a massive issue, then we have a lot of thick people in our midst. I can't get worked up if the spouse of a suicide bomber gets arrested and searched. Would you go and protest that ? It takes one thing again, a common religion and a victim card too. '
W12GT said:
otolith said:
Absolutely brilliant and spot on. blindswelledrat said:
I don't get all this shoot-to-kill policy fuss.
What is the normal policy? Is there such a thing as a shoot-to-wound policy?
Doesn't seem to make sense, and even if it did- how can it be relevant for a suicide attacker?
Corbyn has a hang over from his IRA loving days and incidents like IRA operations in Gibraltar and the Loughgall police station and the subsequent SAS response, probably with an eye Jean Charles de Menezes too. To my mind he's trying to say we don't want any of that, but it's now got lost with looking like a clown and leaving it vague to suggest you can some how take a shot but deliberately make it non lethal.What is the normal policy? Is there such a thing as a shoot-to-wound policy?
Doesn't seem to make sense, and even if it did- how can it be relevant for a suicide attacker?
Pistom said:
AJS- said:
This is so much that is wrong with our approach. You may even have a germ of a point if she was wearing hot pants and fk-me heels. She was wearing a perfectly ordinary dress. She was speaking to some protesters on a street in Luton, in England. A country which has no 'Muslim areas.' They were chanting "British police go to hell" in a town in the middle of England and wearing the ridiculous bee keeper jilbab which is not even an ancient Muslim tradition but a modern one, dating roughly to the 1970s. It's as traditional as bell bottoms, and a symbol of resurgent Islamic extremism.
And yet you call a girl in an ordinary English dress asking questions 'provocative'? Really?
I'm in agreement with much of what you are saying but misses the point of my original post. k-me heels. She was wearing a perfectly ordinary dress. She was speaking to some protesters on a street in Luton, in England. A country which has no 'Muslim areas.' They were chanting "British police go to hell" in a town in the middle of England and wearing the ridiculous bee keeper jilbab which is not even an ancient Muslim tradition but a modern one, dating roughly to the 1970s. It's as traditional as bell bottoms, and a symbol of resurgent Islamic extremism. And yet you call a girl in an ordinary English dress asking questions 'provocative'? Really?
Edited by AJS- on Tuesday 17th November 09:16
The short clip focuses on an event which is going to be objectionable to even the most left wing of loonies.
Am I wrong in believing that protests like that are not commonplace so should not be considered as representative of a majority.
The program is about extremism. The clue is in the title.
We are clearly going to disagree on whether going to interview Muslim extremists as she was dressed at the march was appropriate but then again, some consider turning up to all business meetings in a rugby top is reasonable.
My concern is that reacting to these soundbites without understanding the situation is dangerous.
Hey, Tom, asked you a couple of times now , but you seem to be avoiding answering. I guess you can't or won't. Probably for the best as despite probably being well meaning, you are actually part of the problem as it benefits no sensible ordinary Muslim or moderate ( moderate to my definition ) Muslim, but only the loons who are the problem. Sorry.
AJS- said:
Pistom
I watched the whole programme and she doesn't exactly seem to have it in for Muslims. No idea how common these things are as I've never had the fortune to live in such an enriched area. I'm disgusted that they happen at all.
Despite the fact she visits as Mosque and dons a head scarf, presumably so as not to offend anyone either by being asked to or doing so without being asked, she's winding up people in the street and being provocative by dressing in a dress in the street, a red one in which you can see her shape ! Disgusting lack of respect...I watched the whole programme and she doesn't exactly seem to have it in for Muslims. No idea how common these things are as I've never had the fortune to live in such an enriched area. I'm disgusted that they happen at all.
ali_kat said:
Mr_B said:
Despite the fact she visits as Mosque and dons a head scarf, presumably so as not to offend anyone either by being asked to or doing so without being asked, she's winding up people in the street and being provocative by dressing in a dress in the street, a red one in which you can see her shape ! Disgusting lack of respect...
Not sure if serious...?Going into a Catholic Church, Mosque, Synagogue or any other religious building in the UK (or anywhere else in the world!); you respect their custom – so you cover your shoulders/head/legs or remove your shoes or walk on your hands if that is what is respectful.
In the street, in the UK, you can wear what you want (so long as you are clothed). I find it distasteful to see fat men walking around town in shorts & no top in the summer, but I’m not offended by it, nor would it be seen as provocative or wind people up. A dress showing your figure shouldn’t be either. No matter which town’s street you are on in the UK
I said that was b
ks and that if you didn't treat Muslims as reactionary babies who can't handle a woman in a dress, then maybe things would improve a little. He then said anyone in Muslim garb is obviously the type who would be be offended or disrespected in some way by being approached in the street by a woman in a dress. Again, more bks and dumb assumptions from someone who feels he is only doing good.As per your quoted part, it seems she visited a Mosque and either was told no entry without a head scarf or perhaps put one on without any mention of it out of respect. So seemingly not quite on the wind up PissedTom takes comfort in excusing it as. Your view is of course utterly correct and perfectly aligned with what I was saying.
blindswelledrat said:
Why all this hysteria about Pistom being considerate of others?
I'm not defending him, as I don't agree with his point of view, but all this pretence that he is somehow insane just because he is over-considerate is nothing short of cliquey gang hysteria.
Calling him insane, fruit loop and saying "check mate" (whatever that means in these circumstances) purely because he is more considerate than others is stupid.
You declaring it hysteria doesn't make it so either. He's being ridiculed on a car forum for his paranoia about offending people or going so far out of his way to be comical to the point where he sounds like he needs to eat his lunch in a locked darkened room in case he encounters anyone.I'm not defending him, as I don't agree with his point of view, but all this pretence that he is somehow insane just because he is over-considerate is nothing short of cliquey gang hysteria.
Calling him insane, fruit loop and saying "check mate" (whatever that means in these circumstances) purely because he is more considerate than others is stupid.
blindswelledrat said:
Mr_B said:
You declaring it hysteria doesn't make it so either. He's being ridiculed on a car forum for his paranoia about offending people or going so far out of his way to be comical to the point where he sounds like he needs to eat his lunch in a locked darkened room in case he encounters anyone.
Indeed. Or to put it another way he is being ridiculed for having a slightly different threshold of respect that your own.Not very nice is it? Almost Islamic in its intolerance.
His odd view and paranoia about offending people was only further enhanced by saying a woman in a dress on a UK street trying to interview a Muslim is an obvious wind up of simpleton Muslims. His assumption btw they were obviously simpletons, not mine.
Edited by Mr_B on Tuesday 17th November 12:44
Pistom said:
There are some on here trying to draw comparison with a would be investigative journalist going to a march mainly attended by people who consider her to look naked in the clothes she chooses to wear, with an average woman going into a none hostile situation.
Do they really not see that that may not get a reasoned response?
You were asked why she should assume that the people on this march were obviously simple minded bigots ( You called the woman in the interview obviously simple minded, not me ) who couldn't handle a woman wearing a dress. You were asked why the journalist was meant to assume that because they wear Muslim garb as you put it, she needed to dress in the street not wearing a dress that shows any of her shape to get a reasoned response that wasn't from being proactive.Do they really not see that that may not get a reasoned response?
You were also asked what the provocative questions were, but again, no response.
I'm not sure why in trying to defend Muslims, you've made the assumption that those who wear a burka would be so intolerant of someone wearing a dress in public unless you think the two are linked. I thought that's what you were bending over backwards to disprove ? You seem to make the most gross assumptions about people and encouraging everyone to do the same. Is there any reason why a woman who wants the freedom to wear a burka would not want the freedom for her to want to wear a dress in public and be equal ?
I would await a response, but think I'll settle for more rubbish about how you can't.
gruffalo said:
dudleybloke said:
So, Muslim men don't like European women dressing European while living in Europe.
But we can't take the piss out of them when its a man in a dress.
Where do we get to find this video of a woman in a red dress, I can't find it and would be interested to view.But we can't take the piss out of them when its a man in a dress.
Cheers
Gruf
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