"I'm a gay man and mass Muslim immigration terrifies me"
Discussion
Trigger warning! Inconvenient facts ahead!
I thought some of our more enlightened contributors may find this article interesting. Others, of course, will denigrate the source, me (for posting it), and non-existent "racism" while carefully avoiding addressing any of the points made in the article (or even reading it). Yes, I can see the smug, "smart", empty one-line replies already. Not that they'll make any difference to reality, but who needs reality when you've got emotion instead? Feels before reals, eh?
As the "bigated zenophobic facist Islamophobic right-wing" article points out, those who most loudly claim to stand for the rights of gay people and women are also often the ones who most fiercely defend the amount of Muslim immigration that we currently have. This contradiction is so insane that I can't believe the people concerned don't see it. It is ridiculous. No, "not all Muslims" hate gay people and women, but enough do that the more Muslims we have here, the more aggressive misogyny and homophobia we get (and many other problems besides), especially when no serious efforts are made to integrate them thanks to (failed) policies of multiculturalism.
The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that these SJW types don't actually care about any of the groups they claim to care about. They just say they care about them in order to signal their virtue, but only as long as there isn't another group they can pretend to care about which is higher up the Loony Left's Totem Pole. Muslims, for some reason, are at the top of this pole, so gay rights and women's rights are wonderful things as long as one is criticising alleged Western "rape culture" and opposition to gay marriage, but suddenly stop mattering when Islam is being discussed. See, also, the complete silence that the Left displays in regard to the enslavement of black people which is still common in Arab countries.
These people are obsessed with showing how morally better they are than others because they are narcissists, and many of them are narcissists because they have been at school in the last 10-15 years and have thus been exposed to nonsense about "everyone being special". When they get out into the real world, and find that actually they're nothing exceptional, this is a horrible shock to them, and so they like to develop some meaningless, vacuous way in which they can still claim to be better than others (while not actually, you know, being any better than others, or having to do anything other than easy things like attacking people online). "I am PCer than thou" is, unsurprisingly, often the method that such people choose.
Until now, it has been tempting to just point and laugh at these idiots and their pathetic insecurity, but the joke is wearing thin when their policies directly result in little problems like, you know, 128 innocent people needlessly dying just across the channel. We all know that if Western countries had immigration policies like, say, Japan, then that simply wouldn't have happened, and 7/7 wouldn't have happened either, and Drummer Rigby would still be with us, and then there's Atocha and of course 9/11. I really have to wonder if SJWs have any shame or genuine compassion for their fellow human beings. How many more of these attacks will it take? Do they or their kids/grandkids really want to live under Sharia law? Because with Muslims outbreeding us by as much as they do, that will eventually happen if we continue down this path, and it will be done entirely democratically, without the need for any more terrorism (though I'm sure we'll get that anyway).
Time for SJWs to stop trying to score "SJ points" by lying about the true nature of Islam. Time for them to be proud of the civilisation we've built, to want to defend it from those who hate us, and to see nothing wrong with those things. Time for them to get their f
king priorities right, because if they don't believe that the Islamists that they've so foolishly and self-righteously allied themselves with will turn on them the second that they're in charge, then they haven't been paying attention.
Yes, I'm bloody angry about these atrocities happening in the West when we could have prevented them. I'm bloody angry that even now, even now, the appeasement and the virtue-signalling continue unabated...what will it take for it to stop? I've got every right to be bloody angry about it all, and you should be too!
I thought some of our more enlightened contributors may find this article interesting. Others, of course, will denigrate the source, me (for posting it), and non-existent "racism" while carefully avoiding addressing any of the points made in the article (or even reading it). Yes, I can see the smug, "smart", empty one-line replies already. Not that they'll make any difference to reality, but who needs reality when you've got emotion instead? Feels before reals, eh?
As the "bigated zenophobic facist Islamophobic right-wing" article points out, those who most loudly claim to stand for the rights of gay people and women are also often the ones who most fiercely defend the amount of Muslim immigration that we currently have. This contradiction is so insane that I can't believe the people concerned don't see it. It is ridiculous. No, "not all Muslims" hate gay people and women, but enough do that the more Muslims we have here, the more aggressive misogyny and homophobia we get (and many other problems besides), especially when no serious efforts are made to integrate them thanks to (failed) policies of multiculturalism.
The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that these SJW types don't actually care about any of the groups they claim to care about. They just say they care about them in order to signal their virtue, but only as long as there isn't another group they can pretend to care about which is higher up the Loony Left's Totem Pole. Muslims, for some reason, are at the top of this pole, so gay rights and women's rights are wonderful things as long as one is criticising alleged Western "rape culture" and opposition to gay marriage, but suddenly stop mattering when Islam is being discussed. See, also, the complete silence that the Left displays in regard to the enslavement of black people which is still common in Arab countries.
These people are obsessed with showing how morally better they are than others because they are narcissists, and many of them are narcissists because they have been at school in the last 10-15 years and have thus been exposed to nonsense about "everyone being special". When they get out into the real world, and find that actually they're nothing exceptional, this is a horrible shock to them, and so they like to develop some meaningless, vacuous way in which they can still claim to be better than others (while not actually, you know, being any better than others, or having to do anything other than easy things like attacking people online). "I am PCer than thou" is, unsurprisingly, often the method that such people choose.
Until now, it has been tempting to just point and laugh at these idiots and their pathetic insecurity, but the joke is wearing thin when their policies directly result in little problems like, you know, 128 innocent people needlessly dying just across the channel. We all know that if Western countries had immigration policies like, say, Japan, then that simply wouldn't have happened, and 7/7 wouldn't have happened either, and Drummer Rigby would still be with us, and then there's Atocha and of course 9/11. I really have to wonder if SJWs have any shame or genuine compassion for their fellow human beings. How many more of these attacks will it take? Do they or their kids/grandkids really want to live under Sharia law? Because with Muslims outbreeding us by as much as they do, that will eventually happen if we continue down this path, and it will be done entirely democratically, without the need for any more terrorism (though I'm sure we'll get that anyway).
Time for SJWs to stop trying to score "SJ points" by lying about the true nature of Islam. Time for them to be proud of the civilisation we've built, to want to defend it from those who hate us, and to see nothing wrong with those things. Time for them to get their f
king priorities right, because if they don't believe that the Islamists that they've so foolishly and self-righteously allied themselves with will turn on them the second that they're in charge, then they haven't been paying attention.Yes, I'm bloody angry about these atrocities happening in the West when we could have prevented them. I'm bloody angry that even now, even now, the appeasement and the virtue-signalling continue unabated...what will it take for it to stop? I've got every right to be bloody angry about it all, and you should be too!
why post And try to shut down any debate at the same time.
For me your whole post is a bit incoherent and a bit of a knee jerk reaction to recent horrible events.
Yes there is intolerance on both sides, I think we can integrate and it would be a far bigger risk to start to turn on our fellow man on a the basis of these events.
For me your whole post is a bit incoherent and a bit of a knee jerk reaction to recent horrible events.
Yes there is intolerance on both sides, I think we can integrate and it would be a far bigger risk to start to turn on our fellow man on a the basis of these events.
This is what's particularly odd and contemptible about the pro-Islamist left. All the decent things 'the left' have stood for over the last century from female suffrage and women's rights to gay rights, racial equality, the fight against anti-semitism, racial and religious equality, self governance and the end of imperialism have all been thrown out. Radical Islam stands directly against every single one of them.
I think it's a form of cultural masochism. People with an essentially slave or subordinate mentality now have their freedom and they don't know what to do with it. It scares them. They now have to think for themselves, make moral judgements or drift around in a relativist quagmire clutching at fashionable ideas which later turn out to be wrong.
They hate the culture they have created and find the certainty and moral absolutism of radical Islam appealing. They can still have the same old enemy of the stodgy old conservative white men who disapprove. Their more repellent attitudes can be blamed on their poverty and lack of education, which is our fault. Their radical and violent tendencies towards us can be blamed on our support for Israel and our imperialism a century ago. The continued failure of many Muslims to integrate into secular western democracies is our fault because we're racist.
They couldn't possibly, with a very few exceptions, go back to the culture they hated and I don't suppose most people now would have any real working memory of life before the cultural revolution of the 1960s, nevermind before the post WW2 welfare boom, or the certainties of a bold and confident British empire, run by white protestants.
Nor should we look to go back to these things. They were already out of date when they were overthrown.
What we have failed to do is create or evolve any sort of alternative which is both inspiring and inclusive enough to really motivate people to defend it, let alone evangelise it or wish to see it spread in the wider world. Instead we have a sort of loose buffet of ideas about a welfare state which is already essentially collapsed, freedom of expression so long as it doesn't go too far or cause any real offence, multiculturalism which is fragmented and divisive and gives no central values which all people living here can be expected to share.
We 'tolerate' everything without really standing for anything.
To me, we have many things that are worth standing for. We have had them for centuries, but they have become tarnished by imperialism, militarism and national, religious and racial chauvinism of a long gone era, and we have essentially thrown out the baby with the bathwater.
I think it's a form of cultural masochism. People with an essentially slave or subordinate mentality now have their freedom and they don't know what to do with it. It scares them. They now have to think for themselves, make moral judgements or drift around in a relativist quagmire clutching at fashionable ideas which later turn out to be wrong.
They hate the culture they have created and find the certainty and moral absolutism of radical Islam appealing. They can still have the same old enemy of the stodgy old conservative white men who disapprove. Their more repellent attitudes can be blamed on their poverty and lack of education, which is our fault. Their radical and violent tendencies towards us can be blamed on our support for Israel and our imperialism a century ago. The continued failure of many Muslims to integrate into secular western democracies is our fault because we're racist.
They couldn't possibly, with a very few exceptions, go back to the culture they hated and I don't suppose most people now would have any real working memory of life before the cultural revolution of the 1960s, nevermind before the post WW2 welfare boom, or the certainties of a bold and confident British empire, run by white protestants.
Nor should we look to go back to these things. They were already out of date when they were overthrown.
What we have failed to do is create or evolve any sort of alternative which is both inspiring and inclusive enough to really motivate people to defend it, let alone evangelise it or wish to see it spread in the wider world. Instead we have a sort of loose buffet of ideas about a welfare state which is already essentially collapsed, freedom of expression so long as it doesn't go too far or cause any real offence, multiculturalism which is fragmented and divisive and gives no central values which all people living here can be expected to share.
We 'tolerate' everything without really standing for anything.
To me, we have many things that are worth standing for. We have had them for centuries, but they have become tarnished by imperialism, militarism and national, religious and racial chauvinism of a long gone era, and we have essentially thrown out the baby with the bathwater.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/iain-lee-...
Have you read this, just be glad you live in a secular society.
Have you read this, just be glad you live in a secular society.
Are there not enough anti-muslim threads here already. I know that the latest atrocity is a good excuse to spout the usual xenophobic (see, I can spell it correctly) and offensive nonsense, but surely this sort of st can be posted on one of the existing threads.
P.s. I like your use of 'we' to infer that you speak for the entire Western world. Your use of 'enlightened' to infer that somehow anybody who might disagree with you is stupid or just needs to see the truth. Finlly, your pejorative use of the term leftie.
This is a 4/10 on the Nick Griffin scale of bks. It's a lazy rehash of previous rants.
t can be posted on one of the existing threads.P.s. I like your use of 'we' to infer that you speak for the entire Western world. Your use of 'enlightened' to infer that somehow anybody who might disagree with you is stupid or just needs to see the truth. Finlly, your pejorative use of the term leftie.
This is a 4/10 on the Nick Griffin scale of b
ks. It's a lazy rehash of previous rants.Gargamel said:
why post And try to shut down any debate at the same time.
For me your whole post is a bit incoherent and a bit of a knee jerk reaction to recent horrible events.
Yes there is intolerance on both sides, I think we can integrate and it would be a far bigger risk to start to turn on our fellow man on a the basis of these events.
I have highlighted the relevant part. I don't see how we can integrate with radical Islam! As far as its followers are concerned, we either assimilate ourselves into their culture or we should be killed.For me your whole post is a bit incoherent and a bit of a knee jerk reaction to recent horrible events.
Yes there is intolerance on both sides, I think we can integrate and it would be a far bigger risk to start to turn on our fellow man on a the basis of these events.
The problem exists. The answer is not, surely, to exacerbate the situation by posting xenophobic rants but dealing with the problem, coming up with solutions and pressuring those at the top to follow what we want.
The one thing the bigoted religious nutters fear is education. That is why they tend to stick their kids in their religious enclaves. We must remove publicly funded religious schools and have all kids educated to a specific syllabus which includes comparative religions. If the parents don't like it then the parents don't have to go to school.
We should respect everyone's rights to believe what they hell they want. If their weird ways do not conflict with modern morals then there is no problem. We should not ban religions but if their habits block the rights of anyone, then they should be stopped from doing it. How can one respect a belief that someone flew to the Moon on a horse? That all the graves in Israel and the dead rose again, that a meteor is holy, that a god is so partial as to have a chosen race?
Female and male children should, must, be treated the same up until they have the sense to make the decision for themselves if they want to opt for segregation and hatred of any of the long list of inferiors of the religionists.
Modern accepted morals must prevail in all schools.
Private schools must be required to teach comparative religion, to treat kids the same regardless of gender, and if they refuse then there are all sorts of concessions that can be withdrawn.
As ever we will not be able to educate every child, but if we get a high percentage then the tide will turn against the hatred of the bigots.
Moaning about what exists doesn't help. Wishing for an Eden that never was is pointless. Let's change the situation we are in for the better, and the betterment of children at risk of being indoctrinated.
Education is the great equaliser. The western catholic church limited education for centuries, even to their own workers, and that didn't turn out so well. So let's learn from that and ensure that we treat children as children and not as victims of stupids beliefs.
The one thing the bigoted religious nutters fear is education. That is why they tend to stick their kids in their religious enclaves. We must remove publicly funded religious schools and have all kids educated to a specific syllabus which includes comparative religions. If the parents don't like it then the parents don't have to go to school.
We should respect everyone's rights to believe what they hell they want. If their weird ways do not conflict with modern morals then there is no problem. We should not ban religions but if their habits block the rights of anyone, then they should be stopped from doing it. How can one respect a belief that someone flew to the Moon on a horse? That all the graves in Israel and the dead rose again, that a meteor is holy, that a god is so partial as to have a chosen race?
Female and male children should, must, be treated the same up until they have the sense to make the decision for themselves if they want to opt for segregation and hatred of any of the long list of inferiors of the religionists.
Modern accepted morals must prevail in all schools.
Private schools must be required to teach comparative religion, to treat kids the same regardless of gender, and if they refuse then there are all sorts of concessions that can be withdrawn.
As ever we will not be able to educate every child, but if we get a high percentage then the tide will turn against the hatred of the bigots.
Moaning about what exists doesn't help. Wishing for an Eden that never was is pointless. Let's change the situation we are in for the better, and the betterment of children at risk of being indoctrinated.
Education is the great equaliser. The western catholic church limited education for centuries, even to their own workers, and that didn't turn out so well. So let's learn from that and ensure that we treat children as children and not as victims of stupids beliefs.
Posts by OP and ajs are spot on and well written.
They are not incohesive, xenophobic or scaremongering.
If that's what you think, you're part of the problem.
Great post by Derek as well. That religious schools, and more so Islamic schools, are allowed to exist in the UK is just staggering and worrying.
They are not incohesive, xenophobic or scaremongering.
If that's what you think, you're part of the problem.
Great post by Derek as well. That religious schools, and more so Islamic schools, are allowed to exist in the UK is just staggering and worrying.
Edited by danllama on Tuesday 17th November 08:33
Shuvi McTupya said:
I have highlighted the relevant part. I don't see how we can integrate with radical Islam! As far as its followers are concerned, we either assimilate ourselves into their culture or we should be killed.
I think the point is to integrate with moderate muslims, the more successful this is, the less the appeal of extremism or radical islam. Derek
Unfortunately it's not as simple as education. In what could almost be a parody of the oft used line about refugees, the two terrorists who attacked Glasgow Airport were.... A doctor who was brought up in Buckinghamshire and an engineer, studying a PhD in computational fluid dynamics. Not a TV aerial engineer.
Highly educated men. Yet they decided to launch a terrorist attack on innocent civilians which neither expected to survive.
Unfortunately it's not as simple as education. In what could almost be a parody of the oft used line about refugees, the two terrorists who attacked Glasgow Airport were.... A doctor who was brought up in Buckinghamshire and an engineer, studying a PhD in computational fluid dynamics. Not a TV aerial engineer.
Highly educated men. Yet they decided to launch a terrorist attack on innocent civilians which neither expected to survive.
Gargamel said:
Shuvi McTupya said:
I have highlighted the relevant part. I don't see how we can integrate with radical Islam! As far as its followers are concerned, we either assimilate ourselves into their culture or we should be killed.
I think the point is to integrate with moderate muslims, the more successful this is, the less the appeal of extremism or radical islam. It would be daft and completely counterproductive to think that the violent few represent the majority in any way. That would be as silly as thinking a Dad who takes his kids to football on Saturday mornings is secretly hoping they'll turn into hooligans who use Millwall as an excuse for starting a fight.
Disaffected young men who have become alienated (often entirely by their own action) from the rest of society are the risk. They are looking for acceptance, respect, purpose and they find it by joining gangs and signing up to idiotic us-against-the-world causes. It is genuinely pathetic. Same model fits urban teenage gangs, the idiots who murdered Lee Rigby in the name of their "brothers", white supremacist morons, the lunatics who shoot up their own schools, and countless other groups of pathetic, pseudo-idealistic young men. The real risk of death also seems to be an attraction as an escape from what they see as their pointless lives.
These are the bozos we can protect ourselves from by trying to make them feel included or that there is at least a path available towards acceptance. If we are stupid and cowardly enough to say "all you Muslims are untrustworthy and unwelcome" we will tip more of these bozos into extremism. So let's not be grotesquely unfair to the majority, eh? Because apart from it bring profoundly immoral, it's also going to be completely counterproductive.
Morally and practically it doesn't strike me as desperately complicated. We treat people fairly and as individuals. If you're running around with a machine gun killing civilians in Syria, it is fair of us to drop a bomb on your head. It will make the world a better place. If you're near a gun when the police ring the doorbell, it's fair enough if you get shot in the head. If you're a mother in Bradford it would be unfair of us to assume you've been grooming a suicide bomber just because you're a Muslim, in the same way that it would be unfair for someone to think I'm a white supremacist just because I'm white.
Edited by ATG on Tuesday 17th November 10:01
e21Mark said:
The less tolerant we are of moderate Muslims, the more disenfranchised we make them, the more appealing we make an extremist Muslim state an attractive alternative.
Tolerant of what about Muslims though? Tolerant of radical clerics preaching Islamism? Tolerant of FGM? Honour killings? Sharia law?You have to make some sort of a cut off point where you say to Muslims 'this is not acceptable' and if our saying so radicalises certain people then those people were radicals to start with.
The problem at the moment is not just a few radicals but a whole culture which is in my view too tolerant of Muslim communities which allow, foster and even encourage this radicalism even when they themselves don't engage in it. We need to make the radicals identify themselves and make the non-radicals take a stand against it.
The much maligned 'polarisation' is exactly what we should be aiming for.
ATG said:
This with knobs on.
It would be daft and completely counterproductive to think that the violent few represent the majority in any way. That would be as silly as thinking a Dad who takes his kids to football on Saturday mornings is secretly hoping they'll turn into hooligans who use Millwall as an excuse for starting a fight.
Disaffected young men who have become alienated (often entirely by their own action) from the rest of society are the risk. They are looking for acceptance, respect, purpose and they find it by joining gangs and signing up to idiotic us-against-the-world causes. It is genuinely pathetic. Same model fits urban teenage gangs, the idiots who murdered Lee Rigby in the name of their "brothers", white supremacist morons, the lunatics who shoot up their own schools, and countless other groups of pathetic, pseudo-idealistic young men. The real risk of death also seems to be an attraction as an escape from what they see as their pointless lives.
These are the bozos we can protect ourselves from by trying to make them feel included or that they're is at least a path available towards acceptance. If we are stupid and cowardly enough to say "all you Muslims are untrustworthy and unwelcome" we will tip more of these bozos into extremism. So let's not be grotesquely unfair to the majority, eh? Because apart from it bring profoundly immoral, it's also going to be completely counterproductive.
Morally and practically it doesn't strike me as desperately complicated. We treat people fairly and as individuals. If you're running around with a machine gun killing civilians in Syria, it is fair of us to drop a bomb on your head. It will make the world a better place. If you're near a gun when the police ring the doorbell, it's fair enough if you get shot in the head. If you're a mother in Bradford it would be unfair of us to assume you've been grooming a suicide bomber just because you're a Muslim, in the same way that it would be unfair for someone to think I'm a white supremacist just because I'm white.
These disaffected young men you talk of are merely the cannon fodder sent by the people that control and direct the policy globally. Until this is recognised and acknowledged, nothing will change, as there will always be yet more disaffected young men that can be sent to do the bidding of the people that control and direct the movement. It would be daft and completely counterproductive to think that the violent few represent the majority in any way. That would be as silly as thinking a Dad who takes his kids to football on Saturday mornings is secretly hoping they'll turn into hooligans who use Millwall as an excuse for starting a fight.
Disaffected young men who have become alienated (often entirely by their own action) from the rest of society are the risk. They are looking for acceptance, respect, purpose and they find it by joining gangs and signing up to idiotic us-against-the-world causes. It is genuinely pathetic. Same model fits urban teenage gangs, the idiots who murdered Lee Rigby in the name of their "brothers", white supremacist morons, the lunatics who shoot up their own schools, and countless other groups of pathetic, pseudo-idealistic young men. The real risk of death also seems to be an attraction as an escape from what they see as their pointless lives.
These are the bozos we can protect ourselves from by trying to make them feel included or that they're is at least a path available towards acceptance. If we are stupid and cowardly enough to say "all you Muslims are untrustworthy and unwelcome" we will tip more of these bozos into extremism. So let's not be grotesquely unfair to the majority, eh? Because apart from it bring profoundly immoral, it's also going to be completely counterproductive.
Morally and practically it doesn't strike me as desperately complicated. We treat people fairly and as individuals. If you're running around with a machine gun killing civilians in Syria, it is fair of us to drop a bomb on your head. It will make the world a better place. If you're near a gun when the police ring the doorbell, it's fair enough if you get shot in the head. If you're a mother in Bradford it would be unfair of us to assume you've been grooming a suicide bomber just because you're a Muslim, in the same way that it would be unfair for someone to think I'm a white supremacist just because I'm white.
This isn't a bunch of upset kids that want to cause problems. this is planned, directed, financed and controlled.
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