Even the middle classes are beginning to feel the pinch
Discussion
I think the moral of this story is that it's *very* easy to get into a habit of spending money when you have lots of it, and suddenly it can bite you in the ass.
Our family income is similar but a bit less to that of the people in the paper (and we also live in zone 2 London) complete with BTL paying for itself, although luckily we do not have the mortgage outgoings on our own home they do (won't bore you with the details), but even if we did, money would still not be an issue like it is for them. While I can technically understand how they spend so much on hols and daily outgoings, it is completely alien to me.
Our last holiday was 2 weeks in Spain driving around and staying in hotels, I doubt we spent more than £2.5K in total inc £800 on the ferry there and back. My partner is pregnant with our first, but had we had a kid or 2, I don't think it would have increased the cost dramatically. The cost for this trip is very similar to our normal holidays. The most expensive trip we've ever done was 1 week in Corfu in the summer where we spent £2.5K in a 5* hotel as a pre-parenthood blowout.
Our daily driver is a 10 yr old BMW 330d estate with 135k miles on it and worth probably £4K on a good day. We get public transport round London with an uber cab maybe twice a month. We shop online at Tesco so we don't impulse buy. We batch cook food for economies of scale, but we eat whatever we want and don't scrimp on anythign we like. We do most of our entertaining at home. I walk/cycle to work for exercise and my partner walks the dog. We don't buy expensive clothes - I live in GAP jeans and T-shirts and my partner buys loads of stuff, but it's all eBay bargains.
For our impending child, we've bought almost everything second hand from eBay and are making use of lots of free stuff given to us by friends. We also bought a Finnish baby box rather than everything separately from fancy shops.
Our main day to day extravagances are:
- wine/beers etc (mainly for me now
) most days = £30 /week
- Cleaner for 3 hours every week = £40 / week
- Dinner out once a month, normally Wagama, but once every 6 months we do a fancy Michelin star type place where we'll spend £200 for a meal for 2
- Pub lunch in the country every other Sunday or so = £40 a pop
- Our dog who costs a small fortune to feed (Rottie), insure, get daycare for when needed etc = £200 / month
Our regular monthly outgoings for all of this are ~£2.5K, and as far as I'm concerned we live *very* well and and want for nothing. One of the joys of our life is that we live massively within our means and as a result have zero financial worries. Even if we added a £2.5K mortgage and to that we'd still 'only' be at £5K / month. Now, I have no doubt kids will make things more expensive, but not catastrophically so.
The elephant in the room here is obviously the fact that this excludes my love of cars/bikes which means I *personally* spend a lot more on top of our daily expenses. But, this all comes out of my personal savings from my income (not my partner's) and is all money I have earned and they are all paid for outright, none on finance. If I wanted to, I could sell them all tomorrow (and probably should with a baby arriving shortly
), recoup £120K instantly an save myself £5k / year on servicing/maintenance/insurance etc .
And after all this, I still manage to save a chunk of money each year which I force myself to put aside for genuinely important stuff. So, I'd loooooove to know what the couple in the article are spending their hard earned on!
Our family income is similar but a bit less to that of the people in the paper (and we also live in zone 2 London) complete with BTL paying for itself, although luckily we do not have the mortgage outgoings on our own home they do (won't bore you with the details), but even if we did, money would still not be an issue like it is for them. While I can technically understand how they spend so much on hols and daily outgoings, it is completely alien to me.
Our last holiday was 2 weeks in Spain driving around and staying in hotels, I doubt we spent more than £2.5K in total inc £800 on the ferry there and back. My partner is pregnant with our first, but had we had a kid or 2, I don't think it would have increased the cost dramatically. The cost for this trip is very similar to our normal holidays. The most expensive trip we've ever done was 1 week in Corfu in the summer where we spent £2.5K in a 5* hotel as a pre-parenthood blowout.
Our daily driver is a 10 yr old BMW 330d estate with 135k miles on it and worth probably £4K on a good day. We get public transport round London with an uber cab maybe twice a month. We shop online at Tesco so we don't impulse buy. We batch cook food for economies of scale, but we eat whatever we want and don't scrimp on anythign we like. We do most of our entertaining at home. I walk/cycle to work for exercise and my partner walks the dog. We don't buy expensive clothes - I live in GAP jeans and T-shirts and my partner buys loads of stuff, but it's all eBay bargains.
For our impending child, we've bought almost everything second hand from eBay and are making use of lots of free stuff given to us by friends. We also bought a Finnish baby box rather than everything separately from fancy shops.
Our main day to day extravagances are:
- wine/beers etc (mainly for me now
) most days = £30 /week- Cleaner for 3 hours every week = £40 / week
- Dinner out once a month, normally Wagama, but once every 6 months we do a fancy Michelin star type place where we'll spend £200 for a meal for 2
- Pub lunch in the country every other Sunday or so = £40 a pop
- Our dog who costs a small fortune to feed (Rottie), insure, get daycare for when needed etc = £200 / month
Our regular monthly outgoings for all of this are ~£2.5K, and as far as I'm concerned we live *very* well and and want for nothing. One of the joys of our life is that we live massively within our means and as a result have zero financial worries. Even if we added a £2.5K mortgage and to that we'd still 'only' be at £5K / month. Now, I have no doubt kids will make things more expensive, but not catastrophically so.
The elephant in the room here is obviously the fact that this excludes my love of cars/bikes which means I *personally* spend a lot more on top of our daily expenses. But, this all comes out of my personal savings from my income (not my partner's) and is all money I have earned and they are all paid for outright, none on finance. If I wanted to, I could sell them all tomorrow (and probably should with a baby arriving shortly
), recoup £120K instantly an save myself £5k / year on servicing/maintenance/insurance etc . And after all this, I still manage to save a chunk of money each year which I force myself to put aside for genuinely important stuff. So, I'd loooooove to know what the couple in the article are spending their hard earned on!
Mario149 said:
Now, I have no doubt kids will make things more expensive, but not catastrophically so.
it wont be a catastrophe but child care for 2 kids full time is 2.5k a month (for me) I have two mortgages which combined are less than that. So thats my big outlay. However like you I live within my means an apart from the beer have similar costs to you. Say no to starbucks
Shop online
If you need a car to commute buy a cheap reliable one dont spend 40k on something that just looks good on the drive.
Don't always stay in 5* hotels and why go full board etc see the country your vising etc even if its just meals.
Cancel / SKY ? Netflix / Amazon / Spotify etc (I just use Amazon)
Make sandwiches for work or use canteen if subsidized or Tesco, Hand made sandwiches are still sandwiches you don't need to spend £10 a day
Walk or cycle to the station don't drive. It cost £6.50 a day at my station which is 1,625 a year...wasted if I can cycle (before taking kids to nursery I did).
Gym Membership £50 a month plus, pair or trainers an joging round the part £40 a year
Mobile phones, buy the hand set cut line rental do you need 2000 mins an texts use whatsapp its free.
Eating out, try wagamama as suggested very cheap but food is ok. Or once you have kids go out for breakfast not lunch you will not buy alcohol an save more.
Cars / Bikes how many do you need (lots of course) how many do you use an what is lack of use costing you. If car number 3 is a two seater you love but car 2 is a run about but u just use car one. Car 2 should go. Now I am a parents I sold my bike and my Impreza was traded for a Zafira (I cry when I drive it). It cost F all to run.
Kids stuff, share / swap with family Friends NCT group etc. a Pram can cost £1200 its worth 5% of that used, I biught expensive pram for my first (750 - red Joulez thing) for number 2 the boy child got £30 mother car push chair and £80 second hand double buggy (I must have liked my daughter more).
The list goes on an none of the above (aprt from driving a vaxhall s
t box) do u notice after a few weeks.I think the difference is that you both know how much money you have and where it's going. Far too many people think "ooh, we have £190k income" and therefore don't worry about spending and then wonder where it's all gone when they actually need to use it for something that's important to them. If they'd actually focused on where their money was going, I'd imagine they'd have a sizeable cash amount sitting somewhere by now, but it's far too easy to spend to your income when you're not thinking about it because you don't need it for anything (right now).
the couplee in the article are just middle class halfwits who assumed they "should" have x or y or XY+Z AA AB etc. When I win the euro lotto I will buy a super car an just look at it in my garage next to the other 2 I buy. But till then I just live within my means (well within). Is it that hard on 190k a year. I live in the southeast work in the city have kids etc and its fine even when I earned less I got buy fine. 10 years ago we as a family made maybe 75K a year and we still went on holidays etc (we did not have kids then an only 1 mortgage). As we earned more sure we spent more (2nd car, bikes, more holidays) but always paid debts down first (mainly 5 years of uni debts), We stopped getting car loans etc. These guys I am sure are finding 30k a year education costs tought but my guess is they did not accept lean times post leaving uni to set up a sound financial base.
I hear the grads in our office an on the train talking about there big plans etc and truth is grads today get paid more than I did when I started but one thing is constant only 1% of 1% get into the top 6 figers bracket by mid 30's so odds are its not going to be you so best not to spend from day one like it is.
I hear the grads in our office an on the train talking about there big plans etc and truth is grads today get paid more than I did when I started but one thing is constant only 1% of 1% get into the top 6 figers bracket by mid 30's so odds are its not going to be you so best not to spend from day one like it is.
dirty boy said:
"Their dilemma is how to fund the cost of the girls’ education without sacrificing their lifestyle"
That sentence alone was all that I needed to read, idiots.
Lose the fancy house or don't educate the children privately, or perhaps even stop shopping at Waitrose, I don't know, just surprises me how stupid, supposedly intelligent people can be.
A £750k house is an extremely ordinary house in the area where they liveThat sentence alone was all that I needed to read, idiots.
Lose the fancy house or don't educate the children privately, or perhaps even stop shopping at Waitrose, I don't know, just surprises me how stupid, supposedly intelligent people can be.
ClaphamGT3 said:
dirty boy said:
"Their dilemma is how to fund the cost of the girls’ education without sacrificing their lifestyle"
That sentence alone was all that I needed to read, idiots.
Lose the fancy house or don't educate the children privately, or perhaps even stop shopping at Waitrose, I don't know, just surprises me how stupid, supposedly intelligent people can be.
A £750k house is an extremely ordinary house in the area where they liveThat sentence alone was all that I needed to read, idiots.
Lose the fancy house or don't educate the children privately, or perhaps even stop shopping at Waitrose, I don't know, just surprises me how stupid, supposedly intelligent people can be.
Mario149 said:
Now, I have no doubt kids will make things more expensive, but not catastrophically so.
I guess that depends on what you class as "catastrophically so". When they are babies, fk all. When they are school age the costs keep coming. I'm not talking about anything extravagant, a pair of shoes is easily £45, then you have all the uniform & other st. Not to mention baths & showers running. A meal out costs double with a couple of kids. A day out? £100 gone, easily. It all adds up....Dave_ST220 said:
Mario149 said:
Now, I have no doubt kids will make things more expensive, but not catastrophically so.
I guess that depends on what you class as "catastrophically so". When they are babies, fk all. When they are school age the costs keep coming. I'm not talking about anything extravagant, a pair of shoes is easily £45, then you have all the uniform & other st. Not to mention baths & showers running. A meal out costs double with a couple of kids. A day out? £100 gone, easily. It all adds up....t Starfks coffee and Pret Organic Line caught Humus etc will help balance that out.Also we eat out with kids (they are 1 an 3 to not a true example of costs) but breakfast on a sunday is cheaper than lunch that day etc.
Gecko1978 said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
dirty boy said:
"Their dilemma is how to fund the cost of the girls’ education without sacrificing their lifestyle"
That sentence alone was all that I needed to read, idiots.
Lose the fancy house or don't educate the children privately, or perhaps even stop shopping at Waitrose, I don't know, just surprises me how stupid, supposedly intelligent people can be.
A £750k house is an extremely ordinary house in the area where they liveThat sentence alone was all that I needed to read, idiots.
Lose the fancy house or don't educate the children privately, or perhaps even stop shopping at Waitrose, I don't know, just surprises me how stupid, supposedly intelligent people can be.
I'm not advocating that the couple stay put, but we do need to clarify that just because you're 1 hr from London on the train doesn't mean that is your commute. You'll take 15 mins to get to the station at the start and at least that to get from waterloo/paddington etc to your office, on average (it's not hard and fast for me as I move work locations a lot). So it's really 1.5hrs+ and can easily be 2hrs. We're looking at moving out of town to get more space, and we're investigating areas that will get me to a main London station from the front door in 1hr or less so that my total commute is <1.5hrs each way, and there aren't many places outside the M25 you can do that!
Also, you need to factor into the mix that commuting into town for an hour plus on a fast line only really works if you have a fixed location in London and very rarely need to travel either very early or very late when the high speed services aren't running.
For the couple in the article, he would struggle in both those counts and she might on at least one of them.
Also, if their game-plan is to see whether their daughters are bright enough to access the top London day-school group, then moving further out wouldn't be an option
Overall, I would imagine that life in the 'burbs is one aspect of their lifestyle that they don't want to compromise.
For the couple in the article, he would struggle in both those counts and she might on at least one of them.
Also, if their game-plan is to see whether their daughters are bright enough to access the top London day-school group, then moving further out wouldn't be an option
Overall, I would imagine that life in the 'burbs is one aspect of their lifestyle that they don't want to compromise.
Edited by ClaphamGT3 on Tuesday 24th November 13:38
dirty boy said:
"Their dilemma is how to fund the cost of the girls’ education without sacrificing their lifestyle"
That sentence alone was all that I needed to read, idiots.
Lose the fancy house or don't educate the children privately, or perhaps even stop shopping at Waitrose, I don't know, just surprises me how stupid, supposedly intelligent people can be.
I'm not sure you can call someone an idiot when your solution to the problem of how to afford sending their kids to private school is to not send their kids to private school. That sentence alone was all that I needed to read, idiots.
Lose the fancy house or don't educate the children privately, or perhaps even stop shopping at Waitrose, I don't know, just surprises me how stupid, supposedly intelligent people can be.
Mario149 said:
To clarify CGT3's comment, £750K will roughly get you a nice 3 bed flat in Putney/Wandsworth in a conversion 15 mins walk from a train/tube station, or a 3 bed not very nice identikit terrace/ex LA house 20 mins+ from a station.
I'm not advocating that the couple stay put, but we do need to clarify that just because you're 1 hr from London on the train doesn't mean that is your commute. You'll take 15 mins to get to the station at the start and at least that to get from waterloo/paddington etc to your office, on average (it's not hard and fast for me as I move work locations a lot). So it's really 1.5hrs+ and can easily be 2hrs. We're looking at moving out of town to get more space, and we're investigating areas that will get me to a main London station from the front door in 1hr or less so that my total commute is <1.5hrs each way, and there aren't many places outside the M25 you can do that!
come down to Sussex - Hassocks/Haywards Heath/Burgess Hill fit that mark. (52mins) A little bit further out (1 hr 15) is the lovely town of Lewes and main line to Victoria.I'm not advocating that the couple stay put, but we do need to clarify that just because you're 1 hr from London on the train doesn't mean that is your commute. You'll take 15 mins to get to the station at the start and at least that to get from waterloo/paddington etc to your office, on average (it's not hard and fast for me as I move work locations a lot). So it's really 1.5hrs+ and can easily be 2hrs. We're looking at moving out of town to get more space, and we're investigating areas that will get me to a main London station from the front door in 1hr or less so that my total commute is <1.5hrs each way, and there aren't many places outside the M25 you can do that!
Dave_ST220 said:
Welshbeef said:
Is wager (we have 4 overseas holidays a year) that they do a number of overseas holidays every year
Skiing £5k
May holiday £5k
August big 2 week holiday £12k
Oct Caribbean/canaries/Maldives/Africa £8k+
On top of lots of weekends doing things and doing things not being cheap. Heck a meal out and a rushed one at that will be not far off £120 before you start.
Depends on your lifestyle really - when I had a job as a 16yo I only earned £13k with college and then going to Uni. No way could I live on that now but back then outgoing a were exceptionally low how things change.
Christ this place is full of sSkiing £5k
May holiday £5k
August big 2 week holiday £12k
Oct Caribbean/canaries/Maldives/Africa £8k+
On top of lots of weekends doing things and doing things not being cheap. Heck a meal out and a rushed one at that will be not far off £120 before you start.
Depends on your lifestyle really - when I had a job as a 16yo I only earned £13k with college and then going to Uni. No way could I live on that now but back then outgoing a were exceptionally low how things change.
t sometimes but this post takes the prize.
In reality he's too mean to buy teabags.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
searching for megan specialising in personal injury yields 5 results, of those two are in london, one admitted '05 the other '14, the article indicates salary and the search anyway gives details of their firms which have websites with further details of their people 
superlightr said:
jonny996 said:
superlightr said:
we could have paid for our children to go to private school but it would have impacted on our lifestyle so we didnt. We decided that we would sooner spend the money on living comfortably WITHIN our income, having fun, fast cars, slow car and caravan and trips for us and the children to experience things and paying for extra help for lessons they need help with and paying our debts/mortgages etc!
All happy here. Even the kids are happy. win win. Neither wife or I went to private schools.
I am glad for you, but you must see the small selfish side of your comment, do your kids get any benefit of you having a fun fast car?All happy here. Even the kids are happy. win win. Neither wife or I went to private schools.
as said trips for us AND the children to experience things...... trying to give them experiences they will remember.
as we cant afford the lifestyle I would like for ALL of my family AND private school they they dont go to private school. We have other things we think are more important to spend our income on. We are cutting our cloth to our means. Have to cut it even more to get the DB11..........perhaps sell 1x child......
Edited by superlightr on Monday 23 November 15:21
pork911 said:
searching for megan specialising in personal injury yields 5 results, of those two are in london, one admitted '05 the other '14, the article indicates salary and the search anyway gives details of their firms which have websites with further details of their people
Excellent stalking. 
Mario149 said:
To clarify CGT3's comment, £750K will roughly get you a nice 3 bed flat in Putney/Wandsworth in a conversion 15 mins walk from a train/tube station, or a 3 bed not very nice identikit terrace/ex LA house 20 mins+ from a station.
I'm not advocating that the couple stay put, but we do need to clarify that just because you're 1 hr from London on the train doesn't mean that is your commute. You'll take 15 mins to get to the station at the start and at least that to get from waterloo/paddington etc to your office, on average (it's not hard and fast for me as I move work locations a lot). So it's really 1.5hrs+ and can easily be 2hrs. We're looking at moving out of town to get more space, and we're investigating areas that will get me to a main London station from the front door in 1hr or less so that my total commute is <1.5hrs each way, and there aren't many places outside the M25 you can do that!
You can get into town very quickly from St. Albans and Harpenden : about 20 and 30 mins or less each into Farringdon.I'm not advocating that the couple stay put, but we do need to clarify that just because you're 1 hr from London on the train doesn't mean that is your commute. You'll take 15 mins to get to the station at the start and at least that to get from waterloo/paddington etc to your office, on average (it's not hard and fast for me as I move work locations a lot). So it's really 1.5hrs+ and can easily be 2hrs. We're looking at moving out of town to get more space, and we're investigating areas that will get me to a main London station from the front door in 1hr or less so that my total commute is <1.5hrs each way, and there aren't many places outside the M25 you can do that!
Property not cheap but certainly cheaper than London. You can get a family home for 500k ( though not special).
And state schools are good.
alfaman said:
Mario149 said:
To clarify CGT3's comment, £750K will roughly get you a nice 3 bed flat in Putney/Wandsworth in a conversion 15 mins walk from a train/tube station, or a 3 bed not very nice identikit terrace/ex LA house 20 mins+ from a station.
I'm not advocating that the couple stay put, but we do need to clarify that just because you're 1 hr from London on the train doesn't mean that is your commute. You'll take 15 mins to get to the station at the start and at least that to get from waterloo/paddington etc to your office, on average (it's not hard and fast for me as I move work locations a lot). So it's really 1.5hrs+ and can easily be 2hrs. We're looking at moving out of town to get more space, and we're investigating areas that will get me to a main London station from the front door in 1hr or less so that my total commute is <1.5hrs each way, and there aren't many places outside the M25 you can do that!
You can get into town very quickly from St. Albans and Harpenden : about 20 and 30 mins or less each into Farringdon.I'm not advocating that the couple stay put, but we do need to clarify that just because you're 1 hr from London on the train doesn't mean that is your commute. You'll take 15 mins to get to the station at the start and at least that to get from waterloo/paddington etc to your office, on average (it's not hard and fast for me as I move work locations a lot). So it's really 1.5hrs+ and can easily be 2hrs. We're looking at moving out of town to get more space, and we're investigating areas that will get me to a main London station from the front door in 1hr or less so that my total commute is <1.5hrs each way, and there aren't many places outside the M25 you can do that!
Property not cheap but certainly cheaper than London. You can get a family home for 500k ( though not special).
And state schools are good.
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