Turkey Shoots Down Jet Near Syria Border

[Lucas Ayde]

Zod said:

Their EU accession request was shelved years ago.

It was back on the cards last month when it suited Merkel (after her 'open door' policy on migrants backfired politically on her):

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/10/18/uk-europe...

I think the deal later fell through due to the Turks wanting even more cash/concessions .. though the fact that they could be allowed in at some point in the future at the whim of a powerful politician in an EU country is pretty worrysome.

[danllama]

Lucas Ayde said:

It was back on the cards last month when it suited Merkel (after her 'open door' policy on migrants backfired politically on her):

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/10/18/uk-europe...

I think the deal later fell through due to the Turks wanting even more cash/concessions .. though the fact that they could be allowed in at some point in the future at the whim of a powerful politician in an EU country is pretty worrysome.

Well, just another reason to vote OUT in the coming referendum

[Pesty]

Bluebarge said:

dandarez said:

Bloody hell. Articulate and to the point ...very sharp. I would not underestimate Putin, one tiny bit.

but also complete bks. Russia is no respecter of borders (Ukraine, Crimea, Georgia) routinely sends planes and subs on aggressive missions to probe others' airspace, and is conducting more airstrikes against non-ISIL rebels than against ISIL.

Was bound to happen at some point.

Yeah like nobody else does any of that

[FourWheelDrift]

And the subject of a current Tom Hanks/Steven Spielberg film - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Gary_Powers

[irocfan]

starting to look like the Turks are quite literally playing Russian roulette here. Seriously, bad enough to shoot the plane down to begin with but then make your first port of call NATO rather than an apologetic call to the Russians?? Dumb, dumb, dumb. Does seem like this could be the end of Turkey's european ambitions

[Bluebarge]

Lucas Ayde said:

Bluebarge said:

What would you achieve that you couldn't with a rucksack full of explosives? TOW is an anti-tank weapon (and a bulky one) - rather pointless and unwieldy for a terrorist attacking unarmed civilians.

You could take out a bus or a train with it. Or an aircraft on the ground. Or do a lot of damage to a building ... All from a distance away, without having to get past security measures protecting it.

And if you can smuggle adult human beings into Europe in their thousands as has happened with the people smuggling gangs, not too hard to smuggle a few of these in too.

But not to worry, as recent events prove 'What happens in Syria stays in Syria', right?

Someone's been playing too much COD.

There are no shortage of people happy to blow themselves up using bombs made from commercially-available ingredients. I think anyone turning up on a Greek beach in a rubber dinghy with one of these
would not pass unnoticed - they are hardly standard issue for refugees. In case you'd forgotten, the weapons used in the Paris shootings all came from Belgium - I doubt an RPG 7 would be that hard to source in Eastern Europe - they don't bother because they're not that useful.

[Lucas Ayde]

Bluebarge said:

Someone's been playing too much COD.

There are no shortage of people happy to blow themselves up using bombs made from commercially-available ingredients. I think anyone turning up on a Greek beach in a rubber dinghy with one of these
would not pass unnoticed - they are hardly standard issue for refugees. In case you'd forgotten, the weapons used in the Paris shootings all came from Belgium - I doubt an RPG 7 would be that hard to source in Eastern Europe - they don't bother because they're not that useful.

You're missing the point, most likely deliberately as it's not a difficult concept to grasp the threat - This weapon allows you to do massive damage to a soft (or for that matter, hardened) target from a distance well beyond a security cordon that might stop a person from attacking.

[Halb]

el stovey said:

It shows their lack of concern about operating so close to turkey.

I imagined the Russians would have awacs and fighter cover when doing these bombing missions. If not, they ought not to be operating anywhere near Turkey. Not just for defence but also to make sure they don't violate Turkish airspace or get involved in any other kind of incident.

Maybe they didn't expect an ally of a proposed ally to shoot them down in anger? Might explain the 'stab in the back' comment.

[tuffer]

Bluebarge said:

tuffer said:

Bluebarge said:

I think you're confusing the Turkmen with ISIL. Besides, a TOW is not exactly the ideal terrorist weapon - seen the size of one?

Yes, you could probably fit quite a few in the back of a HGV.....

What would you achieve that you couldn't with a rucksack full of explosives? TOW is an anti-tank weapon (and a bulky one) - rather pointless and unwieldy for a terrorist attacking unarmed civilians.

How about this.....

[Lucas Ayde]

irocfan said:

starting to look like the Turks are quite literally playing Russian roulette here. Seriously, bad enough to shoot the plane down to begin with but then make your first port of call NATO rather than an apologetic call to the Russians?? Dumb, dumb, dumb. Does seem like this could be the end of Turkey's european ambitions

As posted elsewhere in the thread, Merkel was prepared to overlook all manner of issues with Turkish behaviour on human rights and free speech and fast track them last month when it suited her. No reason it couldn't prove politically expedient for a powerful European leader to do so at some point in the future.

As for the Turks, they might want to think twice the next time they send their jets over Syria to bomb the Kurds. Seems to be the sort of environment where accidents can happen.

[Halb]

el stovey said:

There's so many anti Assad groups fighting in northern Syria, it's hard to keep up. There are good and bad Kurds, free Syrian army, Al Qaeda, Turkish Malitia and god knows who else.

'Bad' Kurds?

[Guvernator]

Halb said:

Maybe they didn't expect an ally of a proposed ally to shoot them down in anger? Might explain the 'stab in the back' comment.

The thing I can't understand is what do Turkey gain from this? I'm more inclined to think someone got too trigger happy and now they have to try to save face as I really can't see any positive side to deliberately antagonising Russia for them.

[turbobloke]

Guvernator said:

Halb said:

Maybe they didn't expect an ally of a proposed ally to shoot them down in anger? Might explain the 'stab in the back' comment.

The thing I can't understand is what do Turkey gain from this? I'm more inclined to think someone got too trigger happy and now they have to try to save face as I really can't see any positive side to deliberately antagonising Russia for them.

Turkey shoots down Russian jet - has the name of the turkey been released?

[vonuber]

tuffer said:

How about this.....

Fun fact - designed parts of the new building next to the green square. Very expensive and posh, even by PH standards.

Got some good photos of the building opposite from the new one.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Halb said:

el stovey said:

There's so many anti Assad groups fighting in northern Syria, it's hard to keep up. There are good and bad Kurds, free Syrian army, Al Qaeda, Turkish Malitia and god knows who else.

'Bad' Kurds?

Bad Kurds have a whey about them

[Bluebarge]

tuffer said:

How about this.....

Already been done with a smaller rocket launcher that is much easier for a terrorist to deploy. Calm down fellas, your imaginations are running riot. Besides, how do you expect Syrian opposition groups (or local troops or Western troops) to defeat ISIL if they don't have weapons? Baffling.

[ruggedscotty]

So Putin wants Turkey for Christmas - and well cooked at that. This is growing arms and legs.....

Putin wont be messed about with and Turkey has been itching to do something like this for a long time. Think it may have bitten of more than it can chew and the repercussions are going to last for quite some time. Turkey has just kissed good buy to any European aspirations.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Bluebarge said:

tuffer said:

How about this.....

Already been done with a smaller rocket launcher that is much easier for a terrorist to deploy. Calm down fellas, your imagination's are running riot. Besides, how do you expect Syrian opposition groups (or local troops or Western troops) to defeat ISIL if they don't have weapons? Baffling.

You might want to ask a slightly different question, namely, what about the Chinese FN6 MANPADs that happened to land up in the ISIS armoury, probably via Libya. Smaller and lot more useful for shooting down Airliners.

[Halb]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Halb said:

el stovey said:

There's so many anti Assad groups fighting in northern Syria, it's hard to keep up. There are good and bad Kurds, free Syrian army, Al Qaeda, Turkish Malitia and god knows who else.

'Bad' Kurds?

Bad Kurds have a whey about them

• groan*

[Jonesy23]

Halb said:

'Bad' Kurds?

PKK are nutty communists & have a bit of a history. Other groups not so much.